This game is so close (Full Version)

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Rasputitsa -> This game is so close (7/13/2014 5:15:28 PM)

To demonstrate the value in this game, this is an AAR of one turn, a turning point, there is so much going on that a complete AAR would take too long to tell.

This game has been running off and on through all the versions of the game, I left it when there were problems with earlier game versions and to test adaptions and small mods on other games, but have always come back to it as the developing situation was so interesting

Story so far : Scenario Fall Gelb, started in 'Custom Mode' – Allied countries left under AI. Human (Me) plays Germany/Slovakia, Italy comes in later and have taken minor Axis allies under human control as they enter a front with major Axis forces (otherwise they get in the way). The AI France is first target, attacking through Holland and Belgium along the Channel coast, also strike just North of Maginot forts to complete encirclement of French and British forces and capture PARIS, but …..

AI Soviet Union invades Eastern Poland and also the AI controlled Rumania, Axis now fighting on two fronts in 1940. France eventually falls, take Vichy option, rushing forces East to stop the Soviets. AI Rumanian forces fight heroic defence against overwhelming odds, even managing counter-attacks at great cost, but being pushed back and gradually destroyed, Soviets closing in on PLOESTI oil fields. No German access to send help, try coup in Hungary to speed entry into the war, but fails losing some diplomatic ground.

Moving forces out of France and beginning to push Soviets back, triggering Soviet factory evacuation, good sign ; AI Stalin is worried. Start offensive from South-eastern Poland towards ODESSA to establish contact with Rumanians, but it's going to be too late as the Rumanian forces are almost eliminated. Finally Hungary joins the Axis and German units rail into PLOESTI only just ahead of the Soviets.

Objective of the initial Eastern campaign is to push forward to occupy the Stalin Line fortifications at MINSK and GOMEL, wait for the spring and prepare for assault on Moscow in 1941. Winter focus moves to the Mediterranean, TAC units concentrated on Sicily to reduce MALTA, AI British make three carrier sweeps into the Central Mediterranean, beaten off with several carriers lost, but each attack delays the capture of MALTA. Meanwhile, found CYPRUS undefended and seize with Italian amphibious assault.

AI British have taken NARVIK and hold out for months, makes raids on North African coast, launches several unsupported tank unit attacks in the Western Desert, which the Italian easily handle alone (DAK deployed to Eastern front) – air recon shows large build-up of forces in Egypt, Italians take up defensive positions East of EL ALEMIEIN and dig in.

Early 1941 continue operations on Eastern Front, close large encirclement (13 Soviet Corps + 13 Divs) around KIEV, which falls in early March 1941 and slowly destroy Soviet Forces encircled in Rumania, this delayed as they have supply from GALATI and later they retreat to the coast to be supplied by sea (adjust scenario 'consts.ini' file : supply from ships, which is too strong). Move TAC units into Southern Rumania and clear Soviet Navy from Black Sea, Bulgaria now joined Axis.

Have not been able to occupy the Baltic States, or take any action in Yugoslavia, or Greece, too busy in Russia, so this is not 'Barbarossa', but something refreshing different.

Further major encirclements at SMOLENSK and MELITOPOL, whilst Guderian's PzA finds ZAPOROZE undefended and seizes it by coup-de-main. Beginning to get concerned that success in the South is drawing me away from the main objective of MOSCOW and have built Strategic air unit for deep air recon behind Soviet Lines. Late July 1941 sees pocket close around BRYANSK destroying another 13 Soviet Corps + 12 divs, 30 Soviet Corps sized units identified remaining along the front, situation very encouraging, another encirclement at KURSK nets 6 Corps (including 3 Tank). The KALUGA line is broken and 4th PZ Div is within 100 miles of Red Square.

How does the game feel :

'Guderian pleaded with von Kluge to unleash the panzers before the Soviet position could be solidified, even if it meant proceeding without the infantry. He had already made preparations to this effect, and a reluctant von Kluge acquiesced, admonishing his junior with the accusation "your operations always hang by a thread!'

Halder - 'At the beginning we reckoned with some 200 enemy divisions and we have already identified 360. When a dozen of them are destroyed the Russians throw in another dozen.'

So what happened next :

By July 1941 the chances for the US to enter the war had become 'great' and despite 5 FTR units in France, the British are strongly contesting air superiority.
Soviet air units, previously absent are appearing in strength, air superiority over much of the Eastern Front is lost, Axis recon and bombing mission being intercepted and turned back. Lack of air support is becoming serious.
German FTR units have been moved to the RUHR to stop British air attacks and British raiding amphibious assault on BORDEAUX beaten off, but Channel defences must be strengthened. Meanwhile, Partisans becoming more active in France, mobile forces needed on standby, keeping all cities in occupied areas garrisoned, if enemy forces get into a city they will be difficult to shift.

Some Panzer units reduced to 20-25% and have to be returned to Poland for full rebuild, or slow rebuild at the front. It's deceptive because some units show higher strength because their high efficiency makes them look more effective, whilst actually they are bleeding away. The British Carriers have left the Mediterranean, MALTA has been abandoned, but they are now inflicting losses on Atlantic U-Boats.

It looked like almost all Soviet tank units had been destroyed, but now in early September significant new Tank Divs and a few Tank Corps are appearing on the flanks of the main attack. Early August the Soviets begin a major counter offensive from VORONEZH into the open flank of AGC advancing on MOSCOW, previously the AI had made tentative small scale tank attacks, which could be cut off and the AI fell back if threatened with encirclement, but now the attacks keeps coming. It feels like it means business this time, how did it change so quickly ?

The Build-up.

Turn 64 – 01.09.41 : situation looks pretty good, large hole blasted in the Soviet line through RYAZAN, some pressure building from Voronezh Front and a heavy fight developing around STALINO, but mostly very encouraging, with MOSCOW as a the main objective. MALTA and CYPRUS are mine and an Italian raid on AL FAYUM to distract the British captured the town, but prompted a stronger than expected response from the British AI and the raid was beaten off with some loss to the Italian armour. The British have been making raids and landings on unprotected towns along the NA coast, raiders dealt with and garrisons installed, as now I can ship more Italian units to NA with MALTA neutralised. In the far North, German Mountain Troops are closing in around the Indian Div. in NARVIK which, being subjected to constant sea bombardment, will be destroyed soon. Air units have had applied an upgrade to level 3 and upgrades are coming soon for infantry and armour, but PPs are short and needed for current operations and rebuilds, To re-equip a strength 5 Mech Korps from lvl 2 to lvl 3 costs 131 PP (the major part of one week's supply), just for one unit.



[image]local://upfiles/3593/603D8972ACE5425496620776872482BE.jpg[/image]



Rasputitsa -> RE: This game is so close (7/13/2014 5:17:15 PM)

Found VOROSHILOVGRAD undefended and couldn't resist the temptation to capture the town and possibly encircle the Soviet forces around STALINO, but this isn't the main front and almost all the Panzer units are on the Central Front, this became a step too far. The Soviet AI didn't back off as it might have done several turns back, now it's standing toe-to-toe and ready to fight it out.


[image]local://upfiles/3593/213061A909B54C82BE64F285F7A4B314.jpg[/image]



Rasputitsa -> RE: This game is so close (7/13/2014 5:18:43 PM)

Even though I can see no Soviet air units on the map, the combat results are showing the effects and the air superiority display is confirming their presence, as it loses its all over green colour when superiority becomes contested, moving through orange into red as airsuperiority shifts to the enemy, if action isn't taken.


[image]local://upfiles/3593/A9660E1F07F847CCAB9C897DC9C10B98.jpg[/image]



Rasputitsa -> RE: This game is so close (7/13/2014 5:20:02 PM)

Turn 65 – 09.09.41 : first doubts are appearing, most of the Luftwaffe FTR units are in France, with British aircraft carriers, driven out of the Mediterranean, now prowling the Atlantic and U-boat losses have risen. I need those fighters in the East, I have two FTR units building, but they are a month before ready to deploy. Still, at least I planned ahead, two new U-boat units are 9 weeks away, this game needs planning.

The 'Unit Management Display' is a very powerful tool, you can quickly see all your units and future builds. In the SS below I have highlighted the top column line, when you click the top of any column, it shuffles the unit list, so you can sort by any category, click twice for ascending, or descending order, don't forget the slider as the top of the list may be off the screen after a shuffle. Click 'Supply' to see those units with lowest supply, or greatest, see the units sorted by tech level (see what needs upgrade), see the units with most strength, or those in need of rebuild, shuffle units with commanders to the top, all the columns will shuffle. I have renamed all units by number so that they will shuffle in number order, when the top of the name column is clicked, for instance the divisions created for Channel Coast defence are numbered 9XX so they list together. The other controls are self explanatory, but display options are very useful.


[image]local://upfiles/3593/0EE0B823062F4D07ADEAC659A91AE63D.jpg[/image]



Rasputitsa -> RE: This game is so close (7/13/2014 5:22:00 PM)

Axis minor allied units are being used to garrison all the cities behind the front in the East, to guard against para-drop, or partisan uprising, I took a lenient policy in Poland and took the 'free Ukraine' option and it has been quiet behind the lines. Increasingly I am having to bring minor allied units into the front to safeguard threatened rail and to plug the gaps. There has been partisan activity in France, but I hold the cities and have mobile units on the rail to quickly move to deal with incursions and landings. Divisions defending cities are good candidates for upgrade to Corps, as long as you build replacements to take over the garrison when you move the new unit out to the front. There are several units frozen in cities by scenario design (see the Frozen 999 in the unit panel), they can never move. These can be disbanded and removed, when you have replacement divisions to take their place.


[image]local://upfiles/3593/3F2F19799065438FBB84F9313009AA2B.jpg[/image]



Rasputitsa -> RE: This game is so close (7/13/2014 5:24:03 PM)

Now the point of it all, Turn 66 and the realisation that all is not as it seems.

Turn 66 – 16.09.41 : decision time, how quickly events have changed over two game weeks, I really thought the MOSCOW was within reach, now survival is the issue.

Various successful encirclements during the summer had destroyed nearly all the visible Soviet Tank Corps, as the Germans closed in on MOSCOW, air recon showed the Soviets building up a defence around the city of mainly cheap quick build Infantry divisions, they must be desperate, only one Tank Division (still powerful) was encountered in the MOSCOW outer defences, cut out and destroyed. The next SS shows the situation on the Northern Flank, new Soviet armour has arrved here, compare with the situation two weeks ago (SS Post 1), it looks like the targets are MINSK and SMOLENSK. The front opposite VELIKIYI LUKI and KALININ has been stable for some time and the German units have entrenched, but even rested full strength dug-in German Inf Korps cannot hold against strong co-ordinated attacks by 6 Tank and 3 Mech Divs, unless there is a solid line to stop the Tank units breaking around the flanks and there aren't enough reserves for that. High Command said the Soviets were beaten.



[image]local://upfiles/3593/89C0B9E9B7BF479BA7D7B0A34C19BA26.jpg[/image]



Rasputitsa -> RE: This game is so close (7/13/2014 5:25:40 PM)

But that's not all, the Voronezh Front has been reinforced by several more Soviet Tank Divs and a Tank Corps and is making a determined effort to go for KURSK and OREL, with the open flank around RYAZAN threatened. The weak German 51st Pz Korps was due to be sent to Poland for full rebuild and re-quip to level 3, I used it to try and cut-off the advancing Soviet Tank divs North of VORONEZH. Usually when its flanks are threatened the AI STAVKA pulls back, not this time, they just turned around and chewed up the Pz Korps to bits, now moved in 14th Mot and 22nd Pz Korps to plug the gap. No air-superiority, no air supply, also experimenting with scenario 'consts.ini' file settings reducing the time units can survive without supply, makes it sudden death, if there is no support.


[image]local://upfiles/3593/9DBEEFC4A1814D18928A6EA0FF50AD1B.jpg[/image]

I am thinking now of re-grouping, rebuilding the panzer force and possibly squeezing out the bulge developed from VORONEZH. I need to destroy more Soviet units to survive. So I have to create a reserve and get mobile again, I may have to give up some ground and draw the Soviets out, they seem eager to advance. I have another Pz Korps upgrading with new equipment in Poland, ready in 2 weeks. When I am finished in Norway I can return the Kriegsmarine in full strength to the Baltic, with a carrier (taken the 'Graf Zeppelin' option), to support potential operations in the Baltic States and outflank the Soviet positions, or do I want to extend the front that far ?



Rasputitsa -> RE: This game is so close (7/13/2014 5:27:16 PM)

I needed to take the situation more seriously, having bombers organised closer with FTR support, to provide air supply, but I was in the middle of re-organising (bring units in from France) to meet the developing air situation, which hadn't been a problem in the good times, only two weeks ago ! The next SS shows how the air situation is deteriorating especially in the South, with more Soviet reserves showing around MILLEROVO, and Axis bombing and recon missions being turned back by strengthening Soviet air-power. The high flying long range German Strategic air unit has turned out to be very useful, even though there has been hardly any strategic bombing, mainly long range recon work into the Soviet rear areas.


The display shows the lack of Axis fighter cover in the South, especially the orange area over the front around STALINO, where I stuck my head in and am now trying to get it out. Transfer of fighters from other fronts will just cause problems on those fronts, my decision seems to be 'where do I want my problems'

[image]local://upfiles/3593/C606F66C0DD4499BB5FD909CD46CE40E.jpg[/image]



Rasputitsa -> RE: This game is so close (7/13/2014 5:29:20 PM)

So what next, I have already decided that the assault on MOSCOW must stop, the AI STAVKA seems to be content for me to batter at MOSCOW, which I may take before winter, after chewing through the expendable infantry defence, but will lose everything else behind, a sort of super STALINGRAD. I did set the Soviet AI to advantage several turns back, because I wanted a challenging game, but now returned it to normal. When the AI feels powerful it seems prepared to use its power and it didn't just throw everything in front of MOSCOW, but it put the new tank units where it would hurt the most.

The AI British haven't gone away, Italian air recon has shown them slowly building up in ALEXANDRIA and they are now moving out into the desert in force. After several ineffectual unsupported British armoured thrusts, which were easily beaten off, it seems that the AI means business here also. My Italians are well dug-in and air-superiority is still with the Axis, the Qattara Depression is created as hill terrain in ToF and this can be edited in the 'consts.ini' file to be more costly for motorised unit movement, I hope this can replicate the historical defensive bottleneck situation if the Italians have to pull back, because there is precious little help the Germans can give this time.

The Italian armoured unit in the South is what is left of the raiding force which captured AL FAYUM, this was intended to interrupt the British build-up on the main front. It worked, the AI sent a strong armoured force thundering down from CAIRO and whereas before the AI reaction was slow, this time it was quick and crushing, leaving the surviving Italians to limp slowly back to their own lines (low supply - low movement points), lucky not to be completely encircled. The AI shrugged of the threat and quickly moved back to the main business further North (the mass of the British units are in the FOW around ALEXANDRIA and CAIRO).


[image]local://upfiles/3593/4AD472EB3B3C4283939F547F9E646FB7.jpg[/image]



Rasputitsa -> RE: This game is so close (7/13/2014 5:48:58 PM)

I haven't said much about the naval game, but the 'Fleet Management Display' is equally as powerful as the 'Unit Management Display', although it took me a while to realise that you if you intend to bombard, it's not just the fleet you have to select, but every ship you want to take part in the bombardment. One of the reasons why the earlier attacks on MALTA and NARVIK were ineffectual.

In the following SS you can see how all the ships are highlighted and you can do this by normal 'Windows' conventions using mouse clicks with SHIFT and CTRL keys for multiple, or partial selections.

In the top of the screen NARVIK is empty, but not yet occupied by the Germans (no APs left after combat - APs are low because of low supply that far North ), meanwhile out at sea (North Norwegian Sea - just out of range of German TAC air at Trondheim) is the AI British 'cavalry' riding to the rescue and about to land and reclaim their prize next turn. So in a turn based game they will arrive in a nick of time and re-occupy NARVIK, as it is still a British controlled hex, after months of fighting for this place. The AI must have had this unit loaded in anticipation, or lucky, as the timing is perfect and the main part of the Kriegsmarine is away refuelling in OSLO, thinking the battle won. The Bismarck/Tirpitz group was on its 12 'turns at sea' limit (up from 10 after an upgrade), but if I had seen the British Transport sooner I could have kept them on station, with only a small loss of efficiency. You may not see enemy naval units unless you have naval units in the same sea zone, or fly air recon operations, even then you may not have the full picture, only after combat will the combat results start showing which enemy ship groups were involved. The way naval surface combat works is problematic, but I have had surface ships intercepting convoys in the Mediterranean and working on scenario files to increase the likelihood of naval surface combat, meanwhile lots of action with aircraft attacking fleets.

Well, the German ground units are now in siege positions around NARVIK (siege odds apply when hex surrounded - just have to sit it out and will have the APs to move in when the new defenders are defeated) and the big ships will return to add to the bombardment, NARVIK will fall.



[image]local://upfiles/3593/8F05A6842A634F01B6516BA84587B68C.jpg[/image]


I have adapted the game using information on this forum, applying material from the earlier titles and the work of more capable 'modding' experts. I have adapted the GUI to my taste and modified the scenario files to get a more challenging game against the AI. It isn't easy, the editor is difficult to use and the game has stability problems, although I have never failed to get it to run. I know other players are having more trouble, but there is a great game in here, even if you have to work at it to get the best result.

There is much more going on than I have been able to describe, the Germans have just commissioned the 'Graf Zeppelin' (maybe should have saved the PPs ) and it is working up in the Baltic against the rump of the Soviet Baltic Fleet. The drawn out battle for NARVIK goes on, the Rumanian Navy is battling Soviet Subs in the Black Sea and SEVASTOPOL is besieged by a joint German/Italian force, but what about MOSCOW, maybe 1942.

DRAT !!!



baloo7777 -> RE: This game is so close (7/22/2014 11:47:11 PM)

Very nicely done AAR, Rasputitsa! It almost makes me want to play TOF again. Still, the same problems arise as always and show themselves. The Italians and the British as EQUALS?!! Really? Without German support the Italians should be no more than the equivalent of the French or more likely the other Axis Minors. And vs AI, even after much modding/tweaking, the Russian Bear always has more Armor/Air Power than can be defeated (maybe this IS historical). Convoy routing and the Naval system are very far from realistic...almost unplayable...AND the German PP is often wacked and unable to support the technological advantage in Tanks (as in upgrades) it should maintain in the early part of the war. The ability to attack Poland and move the wehrmacht back in place to attack the lowlands as was done historically is almost impossible too. I am not sure about vs the AI, but in the PBEM version there is almost no Russian Winter Offensive, as not many units are released from the attack on USA by the Japs. Maybe the 1.06 upgrade on Steam will help, but I remain skeptical. This game could have been a classic with a little more development, but it remains so close...but not quite there for me.



Rasputitsa -> RE: This game is so close (7/23/2014 9:37:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: baloo7777

Very nicely done AAR, Rasputitsa! It almost makes me want to play TOF again. Still, the same problems arise as always and show themselves. The Italians and the British as EQUALS?!! Really? Without German support the Italians should be no more than the equivalent of the French or more likely the other Axis Minors. And vs AI, even after much modding/tweaking, the Russian Bear always has more Armor/Air Power than can be defeated (maybe this IS historical). Convoy routing and the Naval system are very far from realistic...almost unplayable...AND the German PP is often wacked and unable to support the technological advantage in Tanks (as in upgrades) it should maintain in the early part of the war. The ability to attack Poland and move the wehrmacht back in place to attack the lowlands as was done historically is almost impossible too. I am not sure about vs the AI, but in the PBEM version there is almost no Russian Winter Offensive, as not many units are released from the attack on USA by the Japs. Maybe the 1.06 upgrade on Steam will help, but I remain skeptical. This game could have been a classic with a little more development, but it remains so close...but not quite there for me.


The discussion of this game in the forum has become more about the lost potential, the problems are well known and it's frustrating that there is little further progress, there's no doubt that you have to work at it to get the best result.

Even the way it is, the game can be fun to play, it needs a lot of work to keep it on track, PP levels can suddenly dive, but F12 can be used to correct the problem. Whether it's scenario design, events triggering, or a bug, a nation's production should not suddenly slump, unless there is some catastrophe (A-Bomb). It's more realistic to manually keep the PP levels at a more average level until the game settles down again.

The fact that the game is not completely historical is part of the advantage, you're not on the same stale track all the time, where you can predict what's going to happen and prepare, because you know the history as well as the designers.

Example : reading Eisenhower's report on 'Torch' 1942, describing how he had decided to keep back some forces in the West, in case of a German reaction through Spain into the rear of the Allied front towards Tunis. He knew that holding back forces had delayed the thrust toward Tunis and lost the opportunity to capture the city before the winter weather broke, condemning the Allies to 6 months more fighting in NA. Idiot, hasn't he read the books, doesn't he know that historically there was no chance of the Germans launching an attack through Spain! If the Germans attack that way it must be a bug, or the game's broke [:D].

The game has the ability to put you where the real characters were, deciding strategy when you don't always know what is going to happen next, but still with an historical feel, not complete fantasy. The ability to surprise in a game is priceless and it's worth losing a little absolute realism to get it.

I think the Italians may well get their comeuppance, the point is that I can't rely on things happening as expected and that's the value in the game. I am deeply interested in history and have made several adaptions to create more realism, but I don't want to just re-run a well known story.[:)]







baloo7777 -> RE: This game is so close (7/23/2014 10:51:55 PM)

Rasputitsa, you have my absolute respect. I think this game will sit on my computer a bit longer... and maybe after awhile I'll try it again...maybe...[8D]



Rasputitsa -> RE: This game is so close (7/24/2014 5:09:01 PM)

The point about the Italian performance is that historically they did not perform well under their actual commanders, but in the game they are under my control and strategy, therefore are performing much better in North Africa [;)], also MALTA is lost to the Allies, as it should have been in reality for a viable Axis Mediterranean strategy.

The British AI was making a series of unsupported armoured attacks, combined with raids from the sea, which were not difficult to out-manouver. Now the AI has firmly established the bases of ALEXANDRIA and CAIRO and is now coming out into the desert with a large mixed force of infantry and armour, which is going to be much more difficult to hold. The AI strategy is as you would expect for the British in 1940, with the most that can be expected of their leadership quality and my Italians didn't just sit waiting to be hit, but had mobile units ready to exploit the flank, but then I have read the books [:D].

However, I have put two Italian Corpo into the Southern Russian front by MARIUPOL (see SS post 2), next turn they get minced in the Soviet counter offensive, which forces me to give up the attempt to encircle STALINO. The strategy was wrong and over ambitious and the Italians pay a high price. Another Italian Corpo was placed more carefully in better defensive terrain (hills - note: game doesn't always apply combat terrain effects in some scenarios) on the Northern section of the STALINO bulge, they won't hold, might escape complete destruction, but that's about all.

Italian units worked well earlier in the game, finishing off trapped Soviet units weakened and out of supply, but don't hold up well in the front line, unless heavier German units can be brought in to beef up the line and relieve them before a serious offensive gains momentum. They can act as a trip-wire, but not much more

Two Romanian Corps on the Southern flank (still SS post 2) also given safer positions in hills, or behind river front, but they can't hold either and the remnants will have to be combined to make a viable unit. First attacks destroy their entrenchments, next attack will blow them away.

The French, under AI control, perform as expected for 1940, so the game is not that far wrong in dealing with these nations.

I know there is a lot this game cannot do, but just play to its strengths and it gives a good game.

This game could have been a classic with a little more development, but it remains so close.........

Agreed [:)]



Rasputitsa -> RE: This game is so close (12/11/2019 3:10:44 PM)

Bump.



Rasputitsa -> RE: This game is so close (8/3/2020 6:02:36 PM)

Bump!



Rasputitsa -> RE: This game is so close (8/22/2021 3:24:10 PM)

Bump.



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