Historical WW II game (Full Version)

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WAMedic_slith -> Historical WW II game (7/13/2014 7:18:27 PM)

In the grand scheme of things I'm very new to the war gaming genre so I figured I would ask this question of all the experts out there. I am very, very interested in WW II gaming (and WW II history in general). Also looking for a game that doesn't required a tremendous amount of micromanagement (ie - Men of War Assault Squad).

Which is the best historical WW II game/s I should be checking out? At some point multiplayer might be an option but would probably be something PBEM type (where I don't have to sit for a continuous 30-60 minutes playing (might lead to a divorce).

Thanks in advance!



Mad Russian -> RE: Historical WW II game (7/13/2014 8:41:09 PM)

You need to narrow that down a bit. You want a tactical, operational or strategic level game?

Good Hunting.

MR



WAMedic_slith -> RE: Historical WW II game (7/13/2014 8:58:14 PM)

Oh...sorry, yes I guess that would probably help. I guess I would be looking in the tactical to operational arena. A LONG time ago I played the original Close Combat games and really enjoyed them. Are the new games that have come out in that series pretty good and follow a historical path?



aaatoysandmore -> RE: Historical WW II game (7/13/2014 11:16:19 PM)

Panzer Command: Osfront (tactical), Command OPS (operational) two best on the market. (IMHO) of course. [&o]



Twotribes -> RE: Historical WW II game (7/14/2014 12:14:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Panzer Command: Osfront (tactical), Command OPS (operational) two best on the market. (IMHO) of course. [&o]

How would you know you don't believe in history?



justadude -> RE: Historical WW II game (7/14/2014 12:29:14 AM)

Command Ops lets you decide how much micromanaging you wish to do. While you can give individual units orders, the game really shines when you put yourself in the role of a brigade or task force commander and give Regiments or Battalions orders. I find it to be unique in its approach.

I like Combat Mission, but that is pure micromanagement.

There are a bunch of Close Combat games on this site. They have been upgraded to work on Windows 7 and the result is quite nice. I have Wacht am Rhein. There is one in the works with more up to date graphics.

If you want a robust game that will be able to cover operational and tactical scope as well as different time periods, you can not go wrong with the Operational Art of War. As the name suggests it is more of an operational game, but companies and even squads are possible. It is older, but has some graphics mods as well as a ton of user made scenarios. It is a really good game.



Mad Russian -> RE: Historical WW II game (7/14/2014 3:22:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes


quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Panzer Command: Osfront (tactical), Command OPS (operational) two best on the market. (IMHO) of course. [&o]

How would you know you don't believe in history?


Well, I believe in history and I'm pretty partial to Panzer Command Ostfront. It is at the same scale as Combat Mission if you have experience with that series.

Good Hunting.

MR



MrsWargamer -> RE: Historical WW II game (7/14/2014 11:18:59 AM)

So many designs so many aspects.

In addition to narrowing down the scale of action ie squad based company based, operational, grand strategy, you might want to more firmly define how particularly fussy you wish to get on 'historical' as some people here are inclined to think that some games are better then others merely on the basis of how tedious the design is in the process of beating you up over nauseating levels of minutiae.

Because some are micromanagement, and some are merely zillions of mouse clicks as you get to move hundreds and thousands of units each and every turn.

If you want to play a game that is something you can complete a turn in 10 minutes, that is going to leave out a range of titles that will dismay some of the fan boys of the design :)



aaatoysandmore -> RE: Historical WW II game (7/14/2014 11:56:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes


quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Panzer Command: Osfront (tactical), Command OPS (operational) two best on the market. (IMHO) of course. [&o]

How would you know you don't believe in history?


I believe in the GAME that I play though. I don't play them for history's sake I play them like chess. Now quit trying to derail the thread and start something. You'd hate me to have to report you to Erik or Iain now wouldn't you? [:D]



WAMedic_slith -> RE: Historical WW II game (7/14/2014 2:04:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

So many designs so many aspects.

In addition to narrowing down the scale of action ie squad based company based, operational, grand strategy, you might want to more firmly define how particularly fussy you wish to get on 'historical' as some people here are inclined to think that some games are better then others merely on the basis of how tedious the design is in the process of beating you up over nauseating levels of minutiae.

Because some are micromanagement, and some are merely zillions of mouse clicks as you get to move hundreds and thousands of units each and every turn.

If you want to play a game that is something you can complete a turn in 10 minutes, that is going to leave out a range of titles that will dismay some of the fan boys of the design :)


By historical I'm referring to games where the units/equipment are representative of the current time in the game. Battles are fought on maps that depict actual battle locations/terrain/towns, etc. and have some reference to an actual location/battle that occurred in history.

I took a look at Command Ops but that game looks WAY to complicated for my abilities. I'm thinking I need a scale along the lines of squad or company based. Real-time or turned bases isn't necessarily a huge deal. I've watched some videos on Conflict of Heroes...that looks promising. The Close Combat games look promising but since they are 'remakes' of an older game I'm just wondering if there is better out there.

When it gets right down to the nuts/bolts of it, I have always been fascinated by board war games (ie Avalon Hill type stuff). Time and opponent constraints make getting into an actual board game almost impossible so I'm looking for the best computer product. I may try demo of Combat Mission Red Thunder.



wings7 -> RE: Historical WW II game (7/14/2014 2:45:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore


quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes


quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Panzer Command: Osfront (tactical), Command OPS (operational) two best on the market. (IMHO) of course. [&o]

How would you know you don't believe in history?


I believe in the GAME that I play though. I don't play them for history's sake I play them like chess. Now quit trying to derail the thread and start something. You'd hate me to have to report you to Erik or Iain now wouldn't you? [:D]


[8|]





Kuokkanen -> RE: Historical WW II game (7/14/2014 3:32:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WAMedic

When it gets right down to the nuts/bolts of it, I have always been fascinated by board war games (ie Avalon Hill type stuff). Time and opponent constraints make getting into an actual board game almost impossible so I'm looking for the best computer product.

In that case already mentioned Conflict of Heroes could be near perfect choice, becouse it is also a board game. Lock 'n Load series could be good choice as well. From operational scale games I recommend you Panzer Corps serie. From that serie Afrika Korps and Grand Campaign Mega Pack (second requires first to work) provides historical battles in simple & easy to understand game. Warning: Panzer Corps: Wehrmacht is historically least accurate and most undetailed of the lot.



aaatoysandmore -> RE: Historical WW II game (7/14/2014 4:06:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WAMedic


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

So many designs so many aspects.

In addition to narrowing down the scale of action ie squad based company based, operational, grand strategy, you might want to more firmly define how particularly fussy you wish to get on 'historical' as some people here are inclined to think that some games are better then others merely on the basis of how tedious the design is in the process of beating you up over nauseating levels of minutiae.

Because some are micromanagement, and some are merely zillions of mouse clicks as you get to move hundreds and thousands of units each and every turn.

If you want to play a game that is something you can complete a turn in 10 minutes, that is going to leave out a range of titles that will dismay some of the fan boys of the design :)


By historical I'm referring to games where the units/equipment are representative of the current time in the game. Battles are fought on maps that depict actual battle locations/terrain/towns, etc. and have some reference to an actual location/battle that occurred in history.

I took a look at Command Ops but that game looks WAY to complicated for my abilities. I'm thinking I need a scale along the lines of squad or company based. Real-time or turned bases isn't necessarily a huge deal. I've watched some videos on Conflict of Heroes...that looks promising. The Close Combat games look promising but since they are 'remakes' of an older game I'm just wondering if there is better out there.

When it gets right down to the nuts/bolts of it, I have always been fascinated by board war games (ie Avalon Hill type stuff). Time and opponent constraints make getting into an actual board game almost impossible so I'm looking for the best computer product. I may try demo of Combat Mission Red Thunder.



I felt the same way about Command Ops when I first got it. But, the tutorial it has makes the game seem so easy to play now. If you'll just play that tutorial and do everything in it until you understand it, Command Ops is an easy game to get into. Much easier than Achtung Panzer I'll tell you that. In fact it's like playing Norbsofts Civilwar series now to me. I like Command decisions games more now than I ever did before. It's the way war ought to be played. Whoever heard of a general or commander controlling all of his subordinates anyways like most old boardgames and digital wargames as well. It makes giving orders to a lot of units 1000-5000 a lot more fun than one at a time like the old days. I wish they could make a Pacific War like WitP with this engine model. I'd buy that one but never WitPAE.



MrsWargamer -> RE: Historical WW II game (7/14/2014 10:39:19 PM)

Although I am a VERY big fan of Panzer Corps, it has that puzzle game feel to it in other words the challenge is more in the manner of play style. Damned great game, but might be lower on the historical 'feel'.

Command Ops might not be so hard for you. It has a graphically pleasing look in that it looks just like you are working from maps. But the game design itself is very credible feeling and very realistic in the way command is simulated.

I can also support Conflict of Heroes. Very pleasing experience. Looks a bit board game like due to the actual board game it is derived from.

TOAW III has been out for some time now, but so what, it has always been easiest to describe as 'every board game wargame you ever owned'. It's very historical feeling.

Commander Europe at War is also a popular grand strategy title.



barkman44 -> RE: Historical WW II game (7/15/2014 12:15:54 AM)

The Decisive Campaign series aren't bad.



Neilster -> RE: Historical WW II game (7/15/2014 6:38:19 AM)

The tutorials for Command Ops make it easy to get into and the game is excellent. It has a superb AI.

The Operational Art of War 3 is still excellent and the AI is very solid now. There is a major patch in the works as well that should improve it too.

Combat Mission is great. I agree with most of the other suggestions in this thread too.

Cheers, Neilster



WAMedic_slith -> RE: Historical WW II game (7/15/2014 1:21:43 PM)

Thanks so much for everyone's input. I've got the demo for Command Ops installed and am going to play around with it. It seems daunting but I'm not looking for a 'click feast,' looking for more of a 'thinking man's' game. It may take lots of practice and studying but anything worth doing usually does.



Werewolf13 -> RE: Historical WW II game (7/15/2014 2:35:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WAMedic

In the grand scheme of things I'm very new to the war gaming genre so I figured I would ask this question of all the experts out there. I am very, very interested in WW II gaming (and WW II history in general). Also looking for a game that doesn't required a tremendous amount of micromanagement (ie - Men of War Assault Squad).

Which is the best historical WW II game/s I should be checking out? At some point multiplayer might be an option but would probably be something PBEM type (where I don't have to sit for a continuous 30-60 minutes playing (might lead to a divorce).

Thanks in advance!


The Operational Art of War 3 - Good AI - good graphics - lots of scenarios that cover WWII as well as hypotheticals, WWI and some in between stuff. Easy to learn and still going strong even after being released I thinik - what - 15 or so years ago.



tammybilla -> RE: Historical WW II game (7/15/2014 3:21:30 PM)

I AM ALSO WILLING TO PLAY IT WHERE CAN I GET IT?



harry_vdk -> RE: Historical WW II game (7/15/2014 3:22:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WAMedic

In the grand scheme of things I'm very new to the war gaming genre so I figured I would ask this question of all the experts out there. I am very, very interested in WW II gaming (and WW II history in general). Also looking for a game that doesn't required a tremendous amount of micromanagement (ie - Men of War Assault Squad).

Which is the best historical WW II game/s I should be checking out? At some point multiplayer might be an option but would probably be something PBEM type (where I don't have to sit for a continuous 30-60 minutes playing (might lead to a divorce).

Thanks in advance!


I was starting a year ago with wargaming with Unity of Command (including the 2 dlc) and this give a global historic overview of the war on the east front (not the west).

It start in 1941 with "Operation Barbarossa" and finish in Berlin 1945. Most scenarios are not to long and can played in one peace.

For me was this a good choice.

Harry




Kuokkanen -> RE: Historical WW II game (7/15/2014 6:04:41 PM)

From YouTube videos, Unity of Command looks like another variation of Panzer General. Can someone tell what are the differences between Unity of Command and Panzer Corps?



wodin -> RE: Historical WW II game (7/15/2014 10:17:58 PM)

Combat Mission Red Thunder. Graviteam Tactics Op Star. There the two games you want if you mention Close Combat.



Alchenar -> RE: Historical WW II game (7/16/2014 9:31:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

From YouTube videos, Unity of Command looks like another variation of Panzer General. Can someone tell what are the differences between Unity of Command and Panzer Corps?


Very different focuses. Panzer Corps is about using rock-paper-scissors combat to get to your objectives on a map, Unity of Command is all about using zones of control, maneuver and supply lines to do the same thing. So superficially they look very similar, but actually play very differently.

e: I think Unity of Command is better and while I like Panzer Corps, the difference between the two shows up the difference between making a game with a clear focus and identity and making a game on the vague intent of updating an old classic.



Kuokkanen -> RE: Historical WW II game (7/16/2014 2:07:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alchenar

Panzer Corps is about using rock-paper-scissors combat to get to your objectives on a map

You forgot terrain from there. In Panzer Corps armoured units have Close Defense value, which is used as defense/armour value in city, forest, and other less than open terrains against infantry units. This is meant to simulate greater effectiveness of infantry using satchel charges, mines, Molotov cocktails and the likes in such environments. There is modification for Grand Campaigns that further increases infantry strenght in later years of the war (PIAT, Bazooka, Panzerschrekh etc.)

[edit]
And zones of control & maneuver can apply in Panzer Corps the same as it does in Unity of Command. But UoC has TOAW style supply while PzC does not. On otherhand, PzC seems to have better variety of rocks, papers, and scissors [;)]



Alchenar -> RE: Historical WW II game (7/16/2014 4:16:33 PM)

Ok but the main point is that PC is focused on units rolling dice against each other with modifiers, whereas in UoC it's an afterthought to the issue of supply and maneuver. Despite looking similar the games are about very different ideas.



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