Should I add armor and/or shields to private side ships? (Full Version)

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Fex -> Should I add armor and/or shields to private side ships? (7/20/2014 12:42:08 AM)

A total noob here, eager to learn! :)

Started a game prewarp and just no idea if I should start fitting some armor/shield to those freighters and mining ships?



johanwanderer -> RE: Should I add armor and/or shields to private side ships? (7/20/2014 12:54:15 AM)

I have played with both styles, one where I design all civilian ships (I went as far as to add a single weapon on each) and one where I leave everything on auto. Currently, I just leave it on auto. They get destroyed once in a while, but that's the risk of trading outside of empire controlled territories :) And the private sector rebuild them, making me money. Can't complain about that :)



Nanaki -> RE: Should I add armor and/or shields to private side ships? (7/20/2014 1:32:42 AM)

As an empire, it generally matters very little how civilian ships are equipped because, as long as they can do the job, they will do it. If they are souped out they will pay more maintenance costs but the private sector is usually rolling in cash. If they are not, they get destroyed from time to time but the private sector will automatically replace them.

As a pirate, designing smugglers is VERY important because you have to make them as effective as possible, without compromising their job, while at the same time pushing down their maintenance costs. While smuggler ships are automated like civilian ships, there is no private sector, you pay for the construction and maintenance costs of all your civilian ships.

Generally, as a pirate, I usually design it around lifesupport/habitats. I use 1 for light transports, 2 for medium, and 3 for heavy, then I fill it out with the necessities. No weapons, usually one or two shields, and extra space to the habitat/lifesupport max gets armor so usually about 4-5 plates. I also throw some countermeasures and damage control/repair bots, and decent engines which allow it to evade/get away if shot at.



Icemania -> RE: Should I add armor and/or shields to private side ships? (7/20/2014 7:50:42 AM)

I put on a very small amount of shields and armour but more importantly give them more speed.

IMO designing private ships so they can be easily destroyed, which are then re-built providing income, is an exploit.



Jeeves -> RE: Should I add armor and/or shields to private side ships? (7/20/2014 11:52:29 AM)

Also if you design ships yourself, they will often be loaded with techs that can yield research when captured. That's a bad idea to design FOR losing them. I give them high speed and shields plus ten cargo bays for all three sizes. So far as I can tell, there's no distinction made when assigning jobs, so best to have all three designs the same. For me a 23 freighter ship set costs about 110k to build. Also be sure to give them plenty of fuel, about 500-700 storage depending on reactor efficiency for a range of 20+ sectors. The latest revision allow for ion defenses and tractor beams on civilian ships, so I put a couple of each on my freighters, and several on passenger ships, which are MUCH larger for me (50 passenger compartments).

Lonnie Courtney Clay
Edit : I always put damage control or 2 repair bots and 1-5 armor on civilians, which allows them to fix themselves and pass through storm clouds without damage.



Keston -> RE: Should I add armor and/or shields to private side ships? (7/20/2014 1:17:25 PM)

The repair bots are probably worth the risk if the ships are good at evading, but otherwise that is a good caution not to throw cutting-edge components on private ships unless necessary.



Fex -> RE: Should I add armor and/or shields to private side ships? (7/20/2014 1:31:38 PM)

Thanks for all of your replies! :)

No cutting edge here. Just got warp bubble so we are talking about steel plates and the most basic shields. :)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

I put on a very small amount of shields and armour but more importantly give them more speed.

IMO designing private ships so they can be easily destroyed, which are then re-built providing income, is an exploit.



Yeah, I added just a single shield and 2-5 points of armor and tried to maximize speed.

The exploit part - I think the private side should have direct impact on colony happiness. If their ships get destroyed, player gets happiness penalty. This way player can decide if they want to focus on building cheap ships that will destroy easy (and provide income as private side purchases more) but the downside would be apparent happiness penalty.



Kilravock -> RE: Should I add armor and/or shields to private side ships? (7/23/2014 6:43:28 PM)

I don't think making cheap private sector ships is an exploit. I'm looking at the macro economics. The private sector will build hundreds, even thousands of these ships. They are the largest expense that the private sector will have and can surpass taxes. The private sector needs to be healthy and in the black with a large cash reserve for it to function. So designing ships that are efficient for their jobs for the lowest cost is the obvious goal.

A tanky freighter design with lots of shields and armor will not make it better at its job, but will raise the maintenance costs. The cost of the extra shields and armor will be multiplied hundreds of times and can drag down the economy.

A fast, nimble ship with a long range and fast warp though will be more effective in doing its job at a lower cost. The faster speed and higher maneuverability will it allow it evade any attackers and warp out sooner. The goal is to evade and run away not to engage or hold their ground.

The amount of ships being lost will be very low compared to the total number of the private fleet with this setup unless you are infested with pirates or AI strike fleets. Even then their main targets are bases and stations. Civy ships are just targets of opportunity. You are better off upping the defense and weapons of mining stations than freighters in that situation.

Quick edit; I still put one shield and 1-5 armor on the private sector ships to buy them time to warp out. No more than that.



johanwanderer -> RE: Should I add armor and/or shields to private side ships? (7/23/2014 6:57:00 PM)

I left my private sector ship on auto design :)
Nanaki made a very good point about pirate freighters though. I'm playing one game, and I very tempted to redesign my smuggling ships to include scanner jammers. But I'm in a crazy resource crunch right now, so I don't want to be retrofitting any ships. Thus my smuggling freighters are still on auto design.

I figure that's basically the AI would be doing, so I have no advantage / disadvantage where the private sector is designing its ships.



NephilimNexus -> RE: Should I add armor and/or shields to private side ships? (9/4/2014 7:54:54 AM)

If you are playing an Empire, you want those ships to be well shielded and armored, as they will get attacked constantly.

If you are playing as Pirate, you can skip it because all of your private sector ships get the "Smuggler" tag which hides their identity from anyone without the proper scanning technology. Since the AI never attacks "neutral" targets there is hardly any risk to your private sector ships at all.



jarardo -> RE: Should I add armor and/or shields to private side ships? (9/10/2014 3:18:49 AM)

How much armor and shields are you putting on them? I normally just put 1-2 shields and same armor on them. I assume a lone ship is going to get toasted by any organized fleet unless it's a tank, and with the private sector paying for hundreds of them flying around no sense trying to make them all tanks.

They mostly seem to get damaged when they are docking at a planet with a fight involving area weapons, and that seems to be very rare.

I give them a lot of cruise engines so when they come out of warp they can dock quickly. Also good for troop transports so they load quicker.

I leave all freighters with Caslon Engines. Helps out mid game when fuel is still tight. Even late game when taking over new areas that don't have fuel accumulated it should help from draining all the hydrogen that the military fleets need.



hlemmur -> RE: Should I add armor and/or shields to private side ships? (12/14/2014 3:38:19 PM)

I tend to put no more than one of each on my civilian ships and prioritise speed; just enough to survive long enough to run away from a lone attacker. If they get destroyed so be it - the private sector can rebuild them. I don't consider this to be an exploit. Building lots of cheap poorly defended merchant ships was exactly the strategy employed by the United Provinces (modern day Netherlands) at the height of their wealth and power in the early 17th Century. It allowed them to undercut all other merchant navies as the goods carrier of choice - so if the strategy has been employed in real life it can't be an exploit.



NephilimNexus -> RE: Should I add armor and/or shields to private side ships? (5/22/2015 12:02:07 PM)

Don't worry about your high-tech stuff getting stolen on civilian ships. Why? Remember, civilian ships cannot be directly controlled, and that includes the AI itself. Have you ever tried to Retire a civilian ship? That's right, you can't. You can only scrap them, and sometimes they upgrade themselves, but they cannot be Retired and thus their technology can never be reverse engineered.

I found that in the end-game the important features are a Scanning Jammer and one of those red gravity ball launchers for it's one weapon (since you can only use one). Why? Because that thing sucks attackers into it and away from you, giving your ship time to escape. If that's not feasible then I fit them with an Ion Cannon for the same reason - knock out the attacker's weapons/engines and you can escape.

One thing a lot of people overlook when designing civilian sector ships is the Energy Harvesters (solar panels). Yes, they only work when stationary, but have you seen how much time freighters tend to spend sitting idle? Likewise, mining ships aren't moving when mining. One solar panel per ship can save you untold amounts of fuel (and time spent refueling) in the long run. Even for player-controlled Construction Ships they are essential, as they spend half their lives sitting in place while working on projects. No reason to leave the engine running when you're not driving.



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