Noob Guide to Defending the Realm? (Full Version)

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daan_vb -> Noob Guide to Defending the Realm? (7/21/2014 1:21:34 PM)

Hi guys,

I'm a brand new player to the Distant Worlds Series, I have DW:U edition. I'm just after a bit of early game defence strategy regarding defending infrastructure from Pirate attacks in other systems...

- What type of ship do you think is best to for protection and how many ships do you build and send to protect bases.
- Do you patrol a planet or the system (I find when I patrol system my ships just seem to lie dormant and don't attack automatically, i have to manually instigate the attack) Should they be quite effective in engaging targets
- Do you usually have protection for every mine, base etc you build...

Any other hints and tips would be greatly appreciated![:)]



Tryam -> RE: Noob Guide to Defending the Realm? (7/21/2014 4:44:49 PM)

Not that I'm all that experienced but for defense I try to use mostly escorts and frigates. With a destroyer as backup but really it depends on how far in I am. If at pre warp I just don't bother. (Protection agreements) And a recent game that crashed I was getting ravaged by 10 + Pirates that I couldn't pay off that broke the deals I did have (Death spiral I figured)Also if they get an early cap ship or cruiser it can get nasty for you. For the defense fleets I set them to Defend system with the tool and Set their Home colony to the system once I get fast init jump drives I tend to go to nearby systems. they are actually almost fast enough to get there.

For mining stations more shields and normally an assault pod. (Keeps them from boarding successfully many times) and a fighter bay with a couple pop guns.(Blasters or Rails) Works against anything but a real attack typically.



johanwanderer -> RE: Noob Guide to Defending the Realm? (7/21/2014 7:00:47 PM)

I try to make sure my mining stations and bases are heavily shielded and armored. That way they last long enough for my system / sector defense fleets to react to attacks. My gas mining stations are usually max sized. My normal mining stations started out max sized (because my tech started out crappy) but become progresively smaller than their gas mining counter part later in games. They still pack a punch, just not as much. My defensive bases started out about the same size as a medium spaceport, and only grow slowly. Later in game, they become small enough to be built anywhere I need them. Later, when tech becomes available, I tend to add Gravity Well Projector to all my structures, including resupply and construction ships. The down side to this strategy is you have to make sure your civilian economy can handle the strain, so you can't tax them as much.



Keston -> RE: Noob Guide to Defending the Realm? (7/21/2014 8:22:16 PM)

I design each type of mining station in at least 2 configurations, one oriented for defense against a small number of enemy light ships, and the other a "Light" version that is much lighter on weaponry and much cheaper - this is for areas which are either peaceful or so dangerous that the fortified version will fall as easily as the light one. When Long Range scanners are available, I often have a scanner version. I like to long range missiles early on, then a fighter bay when available to give the base some counter to standoff opponents and enemy fighters.

Starport permutations outside the normal schemes include fleet bases ("Large" for attracting fuel but otherwise small without labs but ample docking and repair facilities and strong defenses), "starter" very small bases with the minimum facilties needed to provide services to the planet and shipping and including light armaments and moderate defenses, and variants of the latter including Scanner, Fortified and/or Fortified Fleet versions.

For base defense, patrol craft need to be fast enough to catch what they are chasing. A system defense ship can be designed with minimal thruster engines to allow for a large increase in weapons/defense and can be stationed at a base under construction or that needs added defense, and then moved elsewhere by hyper as the strategic situation changes. It is basically a small movable defensive base - like a defensive base, it is useful only when the enemy has to come to the defended target.

For overall deployment strategy, remember that at hyper speed 15,000 it takes over 4 months to cross one 2,000,000 wide sector, or 100 days at speed 20,000, so positioning your main fleets and regional reaction forces must take into consideration how long a base can hold out. The same logic applies to positioning troop transports and garrisons to deal with revolts or invasions. Long range scanners are soooo important for directing operations effectively.



Kayoz -> RE: Noob Guide to Defending the Realm? (7/21/2014 9:09:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: daan_vb
- Do you patrol a planet or the system (I find when I patrol system my ships just seem to lie dormant and don't attack automatically, i have to manually instigate the attack) Should they be quite effective in engaging targets


Check engagement stance.

quote:

ORIGINAL: daan_vb
- Do you usually have protection for every mine, base etc you build...

Any other hints and tips would be greatly appreciated![:)]


Read Timotheus' beginner's guide.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3508583



daan_vb -> RE: Noob Guide to Defending the Realm? (7/22/2014 11:43:48 AM)

SO when you guys build a heavily shielded or armoured mine, have you custom built it with extra defence or is there something I can build extra to defend the stations?



Unforeseen -> RE: Noob Guide to Defending the Realm? (7/22/2014 12:07:48 PM)

I keep a relatively large number of escorts independent and on automated to help protect my private sector while keeping a few 5 to 10 ship destroyer squadrons around my core worlds. Depending on the importance of the planet I build 1 to 2 defense bases over core worlds. These are usually torpedo/missile batteries whichever I've invested the most research into. For the non core worlds I usually keep a small number of ships handy but nothing serious unless they are near the front lines of a war.

My battle fleets are comprised mostly of two distinct cruiser designs. Light and Heavy. Heavy Cruisers form the backbone of the fleet, slower but very powerful and designed to go head to head with other cruisers and capital ships. Light Cruisers are somewhat faster and not as powerful but are better equipped to fend off smaller ships.

These days I only use frigates as hunter killer ships. Entirely designed with speed and firepower in mind they have almost no defensive capability. I use these to find and destroy enemy gas mining stations before an enemy force is able to respond. If any resistance is given they immediately withdraw.

I use capital ships as flagships. I design them to be indestructible fortresses and keep my Fleet Admirals on them.



szabferi -> RE: Noob Guide to Defending the Realm? (7/22/2014 2:06:21 PM)

My strategy is the following:

1. I defend every colonized (!) star system with a small FLEET of ships. At the beginning the fleet consist 3-5 ships of the biggest one I can build - I assign more and more ships as the game grows.
The fleet homebase is the colony of the system, stance defensive, stance range is system, the fleet is automated.
I don't differentiate between escort/frigate/cruiser - I use exactly the same ship type what I use in my assault fleets. Cruieser/Destroyer/Frigate - doesn't matter, there is no real difference in their behavior in my experience. The fleet stance is important, not the ship type.

2. No defending ship goes alone - all defenders are part of a system defense fleet. The reason is - the pirates and the enemy empires often attack in fleets. So they easily destroy single ships.

3. Private mining bases are armed and shielded to be able to survive until the system defenders arrive.

4. I simply don't care about private mining bases OUTSIDE of my fleet protected systems. Against lone pirates they can protect themselves (they are armed), and if they are destroyed then they will be rebuilt soon. They are private, and private sector is always swim in money in my games, they can afford to lose some facilities.

5. I build assault fleets consisting 10-20 of my biggest possible ship designs (again: same type of the ships I use in the defense fleets). These fleets are on manual, and the first priority to eliminate the nearby pirate bases and facilities to reduce the frequency of the pirate attacks - so the mining facilities outside my protected systems can live longer.


6. Every colony have an armed starbase - size depends on the colony. Reason is simple: they give some bonus, and small colonies cant build big starbases quickly. I gradually upgrade the size of the starbases as the colony grows.

7. Every planet have 4-6 garrison troops, because the sneaky pirates can land ground forces even if I have defense fleets and bases.



Korashy -> RE: Noob Guide to Defending the Realm? (7/22/2014 11:20:08 PM)

To defend against pirates, I pretty much station fleets at my colony systems (usually 5-10 max size), making sure that they have hyperjump inhibitors, so that those pesky pirates actually lose ships, which will (in my experience) slowly weaken them, especially if you blow up some of their space ports (I found using a special design with gravity weapons to be very effective at blowing up even large spaceports early on, with my normal assault fleets tanking most of the damage)



daan_vb -> RE: Noob Guide to Defending the Realm? (7/23/2014 5:54:47 PM)

- So do you guys attack pirates as early as you can? I'm currently playing my first game and I've played it peacefully thus far, but now some of the pirates are quite strong. Not strong enough to hurt me but strong enough to be a nuisance.

- Also do mines always become private even if I manually order the building of a mine myself. It seems like most of the mines I have are privately owned.

- Do you defend mines that aren't in your colony system but lets say are in the next system along...


quote:

ORIGINAL: szabferi

3. Private mining bases are armed and shielded to be able to survive until the system defenders arrive.

4. I simply don't care about private mining bases OUTSIDE of my fleet protected systems. Against lone pirates they can protect themselves (they are armed), and if they are destroyed then they will be rebuilt soon. They are private, and private sector is always swim in money in my games, they can afford to lose some facilities.

6. Every colony have an armed starbase - size depends on the colony. Reason is simple: they give some bonus, and small colonies cant build big starbases quickly. I gradually upgrade the size of the starbases as the colony grows.

Do you manually upgrade your mines to have more defences or do you just use default



Thanks for the replies



johanwanderer -> RE: Noob Guide to Defending the Realm? (7/23/2014 6:12:29 PM)

quote:


- So do you guys attack pirates as early as you can? I'm currently playing my first game and I've played it peacefully thus far, but now some of the pirates are quite strong. Not strong enough to hurt me but strong enough to be a nuisance.

It depends. If the pirates also harass my less-than-desirable neighbors, I might put up with it. So, In general, I try to remove them out of my own space as soon as I can, but leave them around to keep the other empires in check. No reasons to do their dirty work for them.

quote:


- Also do mines always become private even if I manually order the building of a mine myself. It seems like most of the mines I have are privately owned.

Yes. All mines are privately owned, unless you design a starbase with mining components on it, and build that.

quote:


- Do you defend mines that aren't in your colony system but lets say are in the next system along...

This depends on how many military ships I have at my disposal. I generally have both system-defense fleets (for newly colonized systems) and sector-defense fleets that watch over whole areas of my empires. When I can afford it, I also build a bunch of lone ships just to watch them fly around and do their things.

At the beginning of the game, when military resources are tight, I might only defend the home world and leave the rest open.



Kilravock -> RE: Noob Guide to Defending the Realm? (7/23/2014 7:35:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: daan_vb

- So do you guys attack pirates as early as you can? I'm currently playing my first game and I've played it peacefully thus far, but now some of the pirates are quite strong. Not strong enough to hurt me but strong enough to be a nuisance.

- Also do mines always become private even if I manually order the building of a mine myself. It seems like most of the mines I have are privately owned.

- Do you defend mines that aren't in your colony system but lets say are in the next system along...



1. I usually don't attack pirates unless they become annoying. That usually happens if I expand into their territory or they start breaking or demanding expensive protection agreements or if they are really strong and of coarse if they are attacking me. When playing as an empire, time is on your side when dealing with pirates. Plus having a pet pirate faction is not that bad.

2. All stations designed as a Mining or Gas station are owned by the private sector. If you design a Starbase to be a mining station it will be state owned because Starbases are state owned.

3. Defense of stations in general and especially outside of a colony system are left to the station itself and any in system military ships that are automated. Stations are build to fight off 1-3 small pirate ships. Escorts & frigates are fully automated and support any stations if they are in the system. Automated destroyers do the same but are hunter killer ships that can handle any pirate threat on their own.



szabferi -> RE: Noob Guide to Defending the Realm? (7/24/2014 7:30:16 AM)

quote:

Do you manually upgrade your mines to have more defences or do you just use default


Yes, as the AI designed mines are not powerful enough.... no rocket sience tough, just adding couple shield modules, armor, figjhter bays (if available) and preferably long range weaponry.



Kizucha -> RE: Noob Guide to Defending the Realm? (7/24/2014 1:15:24 PM)

For me, i shield and armor all mines but i have 4 versions for "mines" and 6 versions for "gas mines".

The first two mines and gas mines are the "light" mines, cheap as possible and a bit survivability but they dont survive long and have no big cargo's only so much they can fill till the next freighter arrives.^^ They have no weapons and only 1 or 2 fighter bay's to "amuse" pirates a bit. 2 of the 4 mines is for luxury mining so minimal normal mining thingy's and more luxury mining engines. The other 2 mines are the opposit, they are shielded, armored and armed that they can at least kill a couple of pirates but not more than 4-6 ships with equal tech.

The last... the gas mining station i call "supply station" are heavily shielded, armored and armed fortresses and possible to swarm an enemy fleet with an fleet of fighters that they dont know what they should shoot first.[:D] But mainly they are for the refueling of fleets, for that they have an huge cargo bay for fuel.

For my other defense i use the defense bases, on critical points i build these fortresses that can shred a fleet or two, at most time 1 or 2 of my defense bases are enough to let the enemy turn and run. I love to use fighter bay's in alway's all my defense bases because they often kill all pirates before they can leave.[:D] The only bad thing is, my defense bases and supply stations are really expensive.[;)]

For the ships i have patrols like the most players and an fleet for every colonized or important system. But i like to use a bit of "hunter"-patrols they are fast, have disabling weapons(sadly in most games i dont feel that they can disable anything xD)and with own gravity wells and tractor beams, nothing can escape them.[:D]

Edit: I make all my designs manually.^^

Edit2: Oh yes assault pods are nice to have, as tryam say, if the attack ships have not more as you and equal or weaker troopers they never can board you.[:D].. sure time to time...but not so mutch.[;)]



randal7 -> RE: Noob Guide to Defending the Realm? (7/24/2014 3:26:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: daan_vb

- Do you usually have protection for every mine, base etc you build...

Any other hints and tips would be greatly appreciated![:)]


I try to keep all my mines together as much as possible to minimize fleet coverage needed. I mine every planet (with resources) in my home system, and I look for a system close to the home system with 15-20 planets/moons and mine all/most of them. This gets a good resource base in an area that can be defended with few ships. Then I look for planets with resources I don't have. In the first few colony systems, I mine any fuel planet. Once I have at least one of each strategic resource, I check the planner to see what resources I need most, and look for them in systems where I already have a colony or another mine. Generally dilithium, silicon, and occasionally aculon are the only strategics rare enough that I have to plunk a mine in a system where I don't already have infrastructure by this point. (Note: I play with lots of colony worlds/independents, which makes carbon fibre and chromium much easier to find). Also, if I put a research base on a planet, I put a mine next to it. TL:DR version: the defense benefits of concentrating your mines in a few systems outweigh the disadvantages of having to possibly mine planets with lower mineral concentrations (IMO).



Unforeseen -> RE: Noob Guide to Defending the Realm? (7/25/2014 1:54:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: szabferi
I don't differentiate between escort/frigate/cruiser - I use exactly the same ship type what I use in my assault fleets. Cruieser/Destroyer/Frigate - doesn't matter, there is no real difference in their behavior in my experience. The fleet stance is important, not the ship type.

2. No defending ship goes alone - all defenders are part of a system defense fleet. The reason is - the pirates and the enemy empires often attack in fleets. So they easily destroy single ships.

6. Every colony have an armed starbase - size depends on the colony. Reason is simple: they give some bonus, and small colonies cant build big starbases quickly. I gradually upgrade the size of the starbases as the colony grows.


On the first point, ship type allows you to easily manage role based designs. I think there might also be size differences, can't remember it's been awhile since I actually played.

On the second point...doing this prevents you from having empire wide coverage. You lose the detection grid that forms from ships solo flying throughout the empire. You also do not get the escort missions that help reduce private sector losses. Sure a fleet of pirates will destroy your escort, but your freighter will have time to get away.

On the last point, it is generally a bad idea to keep a "spaceport" over every single colony. We're talking maintenance costs, and it's tends to cause your empires resource stockpiles to be all over the place potentially causing shortages in areas that need them. Better to keep a space port near key areas such as an important core world, the middle of a cluster of colonies, near key resources etc. If your worried about construction, just build more construction yards on the ports that you do have or do what I do and build starbases in uncolonized systems with tons of yards and cargo bays on them.



szabferi -> RE: Noob Guide to Defending the Realm? (7/28/2014 2:12:58 PM)

Thanks for observations, its good to talk about this aspect of the game.

Regarding 2: My overall approach to private sector is MILKING. They always swim in the money so why not?

A. I used to redesign the civilian sector ships/bases to have long range scanners. Such way I have bigger early warning system than I would ever have with state ships + the civilian sector pays the cost :)
B. I give shields to the private ships to improve their survival rate. Again, they pay for both the building and maintenance instead of me, so it's a win for me.
C. It is not BAD If I lose some private ships occasionally. They order more replacement ships from me :)

So based on above, I prefer to have the civil sector for paying the build and maintenance cost to defend/survive on themselves. While it sounds rude, I never ever crippled the civil sector by this strategy.


Regarding bases:
I might admit I build the planetary bases just because of habit and because I see the AI does the same. It might be ineffective and costly but I didn't notice serious issues/slowness regarding building my ships when I wanted them.
And the big bases give the "illusion" of protection.

BTW: if you don't build bases above your colonies
1. don't you miss the planetary bonus provided by some base components (entertainment and hospital stuff)?
2. Also without a base, only one ship can dock the planet.. isn't it a problem?
3. Why do you prefer build starbases in UNCOLONIZED systems instead of in your colonized systems?


ps: I dont play epic long/huge games - just couple hundred stars / game. Maybe my approach could be a problem in case of huge empires....



Tryam -> RE: Noob Guide to Defending the Realm? (7/28/2014 3:57:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: szabferi


Regarding bases:
I might admit I build the planetary bases just because of habit and because I see the AI does the same. It might be ineffective and costly but I didn't notice serious issues/slowness regarding building my ships when I wanted them.
And the big bases give the "illusion" of protection.

BTW: if you don't build bases above your colonies
1. don't you miss the planetary bonus provided by some base components (entertainment and hospital stuff)?
2. Also without a base, only one ship can dock the planet.. isn't it a problem?
3. Why do you prefer build starbases in UNCOLONIZED systems instead of in your colonized systems?


ps: I dont play epic long/huge games - just couple hundred stars / game. Maybe my approach could be a problem in case of huge empires....


Well you can add medical and recreational to a Starbase (for instance) minimalistic design and have it floating overhead w/o getting the ferrying of goods to colony in question.

Now I personally do tend to build star ports as a one per system level and Larges 1 per sector basis. Anything on the front lines I try to get my construction ships to help out with Building some DB's fairly quick or armed Starbases.

One of the reason I wish I could have more multiple lines for simultaneous deployment /upgrade path Big Defensive bases for colony protection Smaller ones my Constructors can build..... And I love them with Tractor beams. So fun to see pirate making a run on a planet and then Nope Sorry! And I love Hyperdeny on anything that's not a Standoff/Long range attacker. I want engagements to be decisive even if it costs me 3-10 escorts to take out that pirate cruiser/capital ship.



szabferi -> RE: Noob Guide to Defending the Realm? (7/29/2014 9:35:14 AM)

Oh, I just spotted the difference between STARBASE and SPACEPORT in our discussions.

So I defer to everyone suggesting it is pointless to build spaceports over every planet - because if I understand right, if I build STARBASES over the planets, I will still get my defence/recreation/commerce bonuses but wont cause the unneded resource shuffling between the spaceports.

Shame I overlooked this difference and the option to have starbases :) Indeed I don't need ship building capacity everywhere, normally I ordered ships at my main planet only to be able to quickly put together the fleet.



Vardis -> RE: Noob Guide to Defending the Realm? (7/29/2014 1:42:00 PM)

quote:

2. Also without a base, only one ship can dock the planet.. isn't it a problem?


This is incorrect. Planets can have several ships docked at once. The last time I checked, a planet had 20 docking bays, although I didn't look to see if it's affected by planet size or anything.



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