How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (Full Version)

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Pariah -> How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/23/2014 6:51:13 PM)


Can someone please tell me the difference between these two games.

WITP:AE has been recommended a few times to me. I just want to know what the difference between AE and the original.

As always...[sm=sign0031.gif]



Terminus -> RE: How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/23/2014 6:57:24 PM)

Maybe go ask that in the AE forum?



Pariah -> RE: How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/23/2014 7:01:43 PM)

Or just wait for the members who have been so helpful with my other questions....[8|]



Missouri_Rebel -> RE: How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/23/2014 7:14:30 PM)

Terminus is correct. WitP has a very active forum even to this date and is filled with many helpful participants. One of the most obvious changes is the difference in scale.

Be warned, WitP is a huge game and very arcane to me. I never did grasp what it was I was supposed to be doing and the amount of time/clicks it takes to accomplish what is a simple task in other games put me off. Others will state that is the draw for them though so your mileage may vary. But my biggest problem was that I have a very limited understanding of naval warfare. i.e. How to utilize the ships, how much time it should take to do various things etc. That and the massive amount of micromanagement and odd abstractions. You can't target specific fleets but you set the flight altitude. Seems odd.

mo reb

Dang, 2 months since I last posted. Been having a great summer in the deep woods.



berto -> RE: How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/23/2014 7:17:10 PM)


Sorry, I agree with Terminus. This is a FAQ frequently discussed and fully answered in the WITP:AE Forum. (Probably also in the WITP Forum.) Just search through older threads there. You'll be sure to find it.



chemkid -> RE: How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/23/2014 7:18:50 PM)

.



Missouri_Rebel -> RE: How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/23/2014 7:30:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: chemkid


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Maybe go ask that in the AE forum?

+1
witp-ae is more of a 'modus vivendi' than just a 'game' -
you will definitely get a much more throughout answer to this question of the ae-forum!
...and more... [:D]


I left out the and more part. Didnt want to scare the poor guy.



chemkid -> RE: How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/23/2014 7:36:19 PM)

.



Pariah -> RE: How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/23/2014 7:48:43 PM)

I think I will give this one a wait. I do not want to shell out almost a 100$ for something I may not enjoy.

But, the way people talk about it sounds so enticing.



Missouri_Rebel -> RE: How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/23/2014 8:09:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pariah

I think I will give this one a wait. I do not want to shell out almost a 100$ for something I may not enjoy.

But, the way people talk about it sounds so enticing.



If you wanted to get a feel for what WitP is similar to you could purchase Uncommon Valor for $20. It was the original of the series with a very limited operation. So much has improved since then (massively) but you do get a sense for how the game plays without shelling out so much. Maybe im wrong there and others will chime in.

http://www.matrixgames.com/store/216/

mo reb



Werewolf13 -> RE: How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/23/2014 8:17:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pariah

I think I will give this one a wait. I do not want to shell out almost a 100$ for something I may not enjoy.

But, the way people talk about it sounds so enticing.


There are two differences between AE and vanilla WIP - scale AE is 40 miles/hex and WIP is 70 or something like that. The other is AE costs $79 (worth it IMO) and WIP (at least the original version) can be had for free from Matix. FWIW getting the free edition might not b a bad idea. I remember playing it back in the 90's and unless you're a spreadsheet kind of player who gets way way down into the weeds it really isn't that much different IMO - (I'll probably get handed my head for saying that but...

That said:

Many if not most of the AE forum participants are heavily into PBEM. Almost universally they will tell you the PBEM experience can't be beat and that though the AI is a good tool for learning you'll never fully appreciate the AE experience without playing against a person.

AE PBEM takes a real commitment too. Games can easily last a year (that's a real year - not a game year) and I've read that some that last 3 years.

AE does have two shorter scenarios both of which I have found to be a great deal of fun and take just a few hours of time if you play like me. If you want a taste of AE you might want to try Uncommon Valor (if Matrix still sells it) as it is a prequel to AE.



Mobeer -> RE: How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/23/2014 8:45:27 PM)

War in the Pacific is not free - it's cheaper than Admirals' Edition, but not free.
Pacific War is free, but much older.



Terminus -> RE: How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/23/2014 9:24:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pariah

I think I will give this one a wait. I do not want to shell out almost a 100$ for something I may not enjoy.

But, the way people talk about it sounds so enticing.



If you wanted to get a feel for what WitP is similar to you could purchase Uncommon Valor for $20. It was the original of the series with a very limited operation. So much has improved since then (massively) but you do get a sense for how the game plays without shelling out so much. Maybe im wrong there and others will chime in.

http://www.matrixgames.com/store/216/

mo reb


Uncommon Valor to WitP: AE is a child's tricycle to a Bugatti Weyron. It can teach very, very little.



Missouri_Rebel -> RE: How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/23/2014 9:33:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pariah

I think I will give this one a wait. I do not want to shell out almost a 100$ for something I may not enjoy.

But, the way people talk about it sounds so enticing.



If you wanted to get a feel for what WitP is similar to you could purchase Uncommon Valor for $20. It was the original of the series with a very limited operation. So much has improved since then (massively) but you do get a sense for how the game plays without shelling out so much. Maybe im wrong there and others will chime in.

http://www.matrixgames.com/store/216/

mo reb


Uncommon Valor to WitP: AE is a child's tricycle to a Bugatti Weyron. It can teach very, very little.


Without knowing what a Bugatti Weyron is, I respectfully disagree. The feel is very similar in how troops load, Task Forces operate, squadrons fly out and their targeting, turns process, the support required etc.. I'd say they are more like a Big Wheel and a Green Machine. The latter has more controls, longer rake, turns better, but you lose the basket and it's low profile leaves you more susceptible to getting run over by a Bugatti Weyron.

EDIT: Just looked it up. I wasnt aware that they started making the Edsel again. [:D]

[image]http://thedabbler.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/The-Edsel-look.jpg[/image]



Pariah -> RE: How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/23/2014 9:42:20 PM)

Its Veyron not Weyron. Basically it is a fast expensive car. I understand the analogy all the same.

So, there really is not a way to see if I would like the game without risking almost 100$? That is a bit of a drag.
Maybe one day.



british exil -> RE: How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/23/2014 10:07:54 PM)

Video is a bit old, but you can get a glimpse of what might be in store for you. It might help you.

It is not mine, just found it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVFi-qRA49o

Mat



Pariah -> RE: How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/23/2014 10:30:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: british exil

Video is a bit old, but you can get a glimpse of what might be in store for you. It might help you.

It is not mine, just found it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVFi-qRA49o

Mat


Ahh, exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!



MrsWargamer -> RE: How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/24/2014 12:04:17 AM)

I bought WitP under the at the time VERY dumb belief that it would adequately replace my need to find space for playing my Pacific War board game.

The simple truth is I should have kept the board game, and settled for being miserable I couldn't find space for it, because WitP is a game that simply takes too much time and effort to play on a computer.

But your opinion may vary.

Personally, I'd rather do the towns income taxes for free instead of playing my copy of WitP.

I'd sell the serial for it in a heart beat for 40 bucks if it was something that could be realistically done. I'd rather have any of quite a few other computer wargames instead.

It will remain as one of my dumbest impulsive purchases. I am not saying it is a bad program, I am saying it was a bad idea. The software though is fine as software goes.



Pariah -> RE: How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/24/2014 12:17:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

I bought WitP under the at the time VERY dumb belief that it would adequately replace my need to find space for playing my Pacific War board game.

The simple truth is I should have kept the board game, and settled for being miserable I couldn't find space for it, because WitP is a game that simply takes too much time and effort to play on a computer.

But your opinion may vary.

Personally, I'd rather do the towns income taxes for free instead of playing my copy of WitP.

I'd sell the serial for it in a heart beat for 40 bucks if it was something that could be realistically done. I'd rather have any of quite a few other computer wargames instead.

It will remain as one of my dumbest impulsive purchases. I am not saying it is a bad program, I am saying it was a bad idea. The software though is fine as software goes.


Honestly, your opinions and suggestions have been pretty spot on for me. So, I think I will just stay away from it. I am going to get TOAW3 fore sure now and hopefully it hold my attention better than Panzer Corps. I am already bored with its simplicity. Not that I won't play it through the campaigns or anything. It is just too basic for me (but, that IS what I was asking for). Close Combat: Gateway to Caen is on my radar right now.



gradenko2k -> RE: How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/24/2014 9:45:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus
Uncommon Valor to WitP: AE is a child's tricycle to a Bugatti Weyron. It can teach very, very little.

I'd beg to differ - it teaches the player:

1. Basic controls for LCU, bases, air groups, TFs
2. How to convoy supplies from rear areas to forward areas
3. How to coordinate LCUs, air groups and TFs together to form a single cohesive operation
4. How to manage pilot fatigue in air groups

Admittedly, the lack of altitude consideration, individual carrier sortie counts, production stats and infinite supplies on the home bases might teach some bad habits, but if you can complete a campaign of Uncommon Valor, you can take the same basic principles all the way to a game of WITP:AE as the Allies (and win against the AI).

WITP just expands the scope, the tasks and the time and effort investment with regards to the UI by several orders of magnitude, but the key concepts are all the same. The most substantive difference I would grant is that the player has to decide which assets go to which sector, since Uncommon Valor gives that to the player "for free"



MrsWargamer -> RE: How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/24/2014 10:35:08 AM)

"4. How to manage pilot fatigue in air groups "

This is not the main reason or the only reason why I think WitP might have taken the power of the computer too far in the process of running a simulation.... but it needs to be said.

What the blazes does a grand strategy title need this level of detail for? Just because my computer can track these details, doesn't mean I have any interest in it doing it. It's like keeping track of how many pairs of dry socks my troops have in War in the East. Hey, if you think that isn't vital to ground troops, you sure have never served in uniform then. It's like keeping track of mail in a grand strategy title. Oh you can bet they consider their mail vital. But eventually the detail level gets a bit nauseating.

When I fire up a wargame, the idea is I am playing a game about war. But the terms war and game need to be equally held accountable. And there is almost zero 'game' in WitP. But I tend to consider games fun, enjoyable and relaxing. There is nothing but work, and tedium in WitP. If you are a workaholic and would rather put in a shift over Christmas, you might like WitP.



Rising-Sun -> RE: How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/24/2014 11:28:27 AM)

Either he want the basic package or the admiral package, its your choice.



Chickenboy -> RE: How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/24/2014 12:44:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pariah

Its Veyron not Weyron. Basically it is a fast expensive car. I understand the analogy all the same.

So, there really is not a way to see if I would like the game without risking almost 100$? That is a bit of a drag.
Maybe one day.



Hi Pariah,

Didn't Matrix recently have a big sale on the game? You may want to check their 'sales bin' to see if it's still reduced. IIRC, it was recently discounted below USD $70.



Chickenboy -> RE: How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/24/2014 12:53:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer
What the blazes does a grand strategy title need this level of detail for? Just because my computer can track these details, doesn't mean I have any interest in it doing it. It's like keeping track of how many pairs of dry socks my troops have in War in the East. Hey, if you think that isn't vital to ground troops, you sure have never served in uniform then. It's like keeping track of mail in a grand strategy title. Oh you can bet they consider their mail vital. But eventually the detail level gets a bit nauseating.


quote:


There is nothing but work, and tedium in WitP.


Not true. The detail is immense, to be sure. But extraneous details are extrapolated or homogenized when necessary. For example, there is only a "supply", which simulates AVGas, bullets, clothing, beans, and so forth for troops. The example above is correct in that sometimes tedium or 'clickfests' appear. It's bound to happen in a 3.5 year-long simulation of the war. There are some means of reducing or removing these impediments if one takes the time to learn the game.

But do you not think pilot fatigue is important? Or airframe repair rates? Or hull damage from ship overuse? It is precisely these details that enable one to control the outcome of the war. Their presence and controlability make it the monumental game that it is. Not for everyone, to be sure, but an absolutely immersive and (at times) exciting / terrifying experience.



gradenko2k -> RE: How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/24/2014 1:03:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer
What the blazes does a grand strategy title need this level of detail for? Just because my computer can track these details, doesn't mean I have any interest in it doing it. It's like keeping track of how many pairs of dry socks my troops have in War in the East. Hey, if you think that isn't vital to ground troops, you sure have never served in uniform then. It's like keeping track of mail in a grand strategy title. Oh you can bet they consider their mail vital. But eventually the detail level gets a bit nauseating.

When I fire up a wargame, the idea is I am playing a game about war. But the terms war and game need to be equally held accountable. And there is almost zero 'game' in WitP. But I tend to consider games fun, enjoyable and relaxing. There is nothing but work, and tedium in WitP. If you are a workaholic and would rather put in a shift over Christmas, you might like WitP.


I agree - I played through Uncommon Valor and the smaller battle scenarios of both WITP and WITP:AE to get a grasp on the mechanics and the overall operational/strategic flow, but taking that out to the full game just took too much wrangling with the UI for my taste.

It's a very unique feeling to know what you must do and yet have it outside your grasp by this thick glamour of inefficient communication - like trying to coordinate a multi-pronged assault between divisions relying solely on couriers.



aaatoysandmore -> RE: How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/24/2014 5:04:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pariah

Or just wait for the members who have been so helpful with my other questions....[8|]


There yah go you're getting the gist of things here. Good comeback lol



warspite1 -> RE: How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/24/2014 6:30:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

What the blazes does a grand strategy title need this level of detail for?

warspite1

It probably doesn't NEED it, but that's not the point is it? Have a look in on the WITP-AE forum and you will see the sheer number of dedicated, addicted converts to the cause. This surely suggests that level of detail scratches a lot of itches and appeals to a great many gamers. Its horses for courses.

Personally I could not get on with it, but I have great respect for those that do.

Of course I like to think that the reason I do not get on with this game is just the type of complexity it features and not the level of complexity (after all, I love WIF). However, that is probably not quite true as it has been pointed out to me, by one who knows everything, that the real reason I do not get on with WITP-AE is because I hang out in the General Discussion forum and am thus, something of a thicky.....[8|]




ezzler -> RE: How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/25/2014 12:18:00 AM)

the main difference between WITP and AE is that in WITP you have to decide from which of the 50 shades of grey you want to paint your ships in before they are launched.

In AE , you have to remember to order the paint as well.



Pariah -> RE: How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/25/2014 12:57:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ezz

the main difference between WITP and AE is that in WITP you have to decide from which of the 50 shades of grey you want to paint your ships in before they are launched.

In AE , you have to remember to order the paint as well.



How is that fun?



SuluSea -> RE: How do WITP and WITP:AE differ? (7/25/2014 1:12:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer
What the blazes does a grand strategy title need this level of detail for? Just because my computer can track these details, doesn't mean I have any interest in it doing it. It's like keeping track of how many pairs of dry socks my troops have in War in the East. Hey, if you think that isn't vital to ground troops, you sure have never served in uniform then. It's like keeping track of mail in a grand strategy title. Oh you can bet they consider their mail vital. But eventually the detail level gets a bit nauseating.


quote:


There is nothing but work, and tedium in WitP.


Not true. The detail is immense, to be sure. But extraneous details are extrapolated or homogenized when necessary. For example, there is only a "supply", which simulates AVGas, bullets, clothing, beans, and so forth for troops. The example above is correct in that sometimes tedium or 'clickfests' appear. It's bound to happen in a 3.5 year-long simulation of the war. There are some means of reducing or removing these impediments if one takes the time to learn the game.

But do you not think pilot fatigue is important? Or airframe repair rates? Or hull damage from ship overuse? It is precisely these details that enable one to control the outcome of the war. Their presence and controlability make it the monumental game that it is. Not for everyone, to be sure, but an absolutely immersive and (at times) exciting / terrifying experience.


Agree with Chickenboy on all points.

Personally I wouldn't waste my money on WITP at this point.
AE was given a huge facelift by dedicated fans of the game playing huge roles on the development side.
For my money it's the best game ever created and 5 years in is still receiving support
to improve the product.

That my friends is what you call return for your gaming dollar.



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