[FIXED v1.06] Firing delay for nuclear gravity bombs / Bombers getting caught in the blast wave (Full Version)

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Der Zeitgeist -> [FIXED v1.06] Firing delay for nuclear gravity bombs / Bombers getting caught in the blast wave (7/25/2014 11:04:18 PM)

I just did some tests with various nuclear bombs, and for some of them (B28, B83)the firing delay in a low level laydown delivery still seems a bit too short, as my B-52 was caught in the blast wave at maximum speed.

Five to ten seconds more should be sufficient. With supersonic bombers like the FB-111, the problem doesn't come up with their higher speed of course, but the B-52 has some problems as it only reaches about 350 knots at low level. [:)]

By the way, check this video for some great footage of B-52s dropping nukes from low level: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3zihbXKyxQ



Der Zeitgeist -> RE: Firing delay for nuclear gravity bombs / Bombers getting caught in the blast wave (7/25/2014 11:29:41 PM)

Some additional information:

I just found a video showing simulated B28 laydown drop tests: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5FQu3Z08II

Judging from the radio traffic in the video, impact occurs about 15 seconds after release, then there's a cut in the video, which then shows the simulated firing of the weapon at about +85 seconds (after release). The firing is simulated by red smoke. [8D]



ComDev -> RE: Firing delay for nuclear gravity bombs / Bombers getting caught in the blast wave (7/26/2014 7:50:05 AM)

Thanks, have reported as a bug and given max priority [8D]



Der Zeitgeist -> RE: Firing delay for nuclear gravity bombs / Bombers getting caught in the blast wave (7/26/2014 12:25:33 PM)

Thanks Ragnar! [sm=sign0031.gif]



Randomizer -> RE: Firing delay for nuclear gravity bombs / Bombers getting caught in the blast wave (7/27/2014 6:02:26 PM)

I have now spent a considerable amount of time testing this with various gravity bombs from various platforms in a specially designed scenario and offer $0.02 CAD worth of observations on the topic.

The problem was very real and the inability to escape the effects of their own bombs dropped at low-levels was recognized by SAC. There was never an entirely satisfactory solution developed but experiments showed that lob-toss bombing stood a good chance of getting the bomber away in time and under ideal conditions. The technique was adopted but I could find no evidence that it was actually tested with a live weapon and an aircraft in flight before the 1963 atmospheric test ban came into effect in 1963. Therefore any assumed survival rates must be entirely theoretical.

The aerodynamic stresses caused by lob-toss bombing practices rapidly destroyed the B-47 fleet and forced the early retirement of those bombers from the SAC inventory. I have found no real evidence that the technique was extensively practised by B-52 squadrons before stand-off weapons became the norm so it would seem that the real-world solution after the B-47 retirement was resorting to high-altitude bombing if the aircraft was expected to survive.

CMANO does not (yet?) simulate lob-toss bombing and slant range (and time to target from release) for gravity bombs appears solely related to height above target rather than a combination of height, aircraft attitude and velocity at release. I suspect that a significant problem would be getting the AI via the Mission Planner to adopt any lob-toss bombing as an attack technique even if the ballistic model for nuclear gravity bombs was modified to allow it. It seems a lot of work for a rather limited tactic although lob-toss attacks with gravity bombs have non-nuclear utility and provides something of a "poor-man's" limited stand-off capability.

Manually controlled nuke strikes with single B28 bombs from high altitude see a reasonable chance of attacker survival but the survival rate goes down when the attack is automated via the Mission editor. Virtually assured is the loss of the bomber due to a low altitude weapon release whether manual or automated attacks are used.

It's a complex problem with limited benefits to the majority of CMANO users and I suspect that the Team may find it not particularly cost-effective in time and effort to pursue extensively reworking the current ballistic modelling. Perhaps there is an easier to implement solution to be found when the issue of the lack of weapon fratricide in the nuclear effects area gets addressed sometime in the future. That said, the situation now is not entirely unreasonable and reflects, to a certain extent anyway, the real problems associated with the delivery of nuclear gravity bombs with megaton yields.

-C



NakedWeasel -> RE: Firing delay for nuclear gravity bombs / Bombers getting caught in the blast wave (7/27/2014 8:56:36 PM)

While the Buff certainly did and still does employ nuclear gravity bombs, I believe that it's primary WMD weapons after the 1960's were long range and/or high-speed guided missiles. The best way to counter the after effects of a high-yield nuclear weapon, is to be far away from it at the time of detonation.



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