Non-military conquest suggestions (Full Version)

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Euler -> Non-military conquest suggestions (8/20/2014 2:46:27 AM)

As a military strategy and conquest game Distant Worlds is very rich. The AI is good (for a player of my skill anyway), the level of detail and customization that is available is excellent. As a military conquest game, there is so much goodness and replayability already there.

But it does always seem to come down to building your military machine and unleashing it on the galaxy. Maybe you have a research advantage, an economic advantage, a diplomatic advantage, or an espionage advantage, but it always manifests itself in the end as a military advantage, and that is how you must win the game.

I suggest that for each of the already implemented gameplay mechanics, there could be a conquest option, just as there is a military conquest option.

For research civilizations, there could be a "mind control" tech that enables certain ships to take over worlds without firing a shot. (Think of the Mule in the Foundation series). Perhaps it destroys the device in the process.

For economic civilizations, colonies could be bought and sold (this may already exist through the diplomacy screen although it is rarely used). This could be a way to access emergency cash by the way, if needed by selling a world to a rich empire.

For diplomatic civilizations, your ambassadors could convince worlds or empires to join your cause...especially if they are already being dominated or are friendly to you and under threat from an enemy.

For espionage civilizations, agents could stage a coup operation that switches control of the colony to your empire. There are already incite rebellion and revolutions, but I do not believe these do the same thing, and they are difficult to pull off in the games I play.

It would be great if game play was balanced so that these strategies could be just as effective as the military one. It would make the game even richer in terms of possible play styles.




AKicebear -> RE: Non-military conquest suggestions (8/20/2014 10:44:51 AM)

Fully agreed - great ideas.



Blackstork -> RE: Non-military conquest suggestions (8/20/2014 11:11:56 AM)

Hey.
Those ideas partially implemented in my mod (next version of Beyond mod/will come out this friday/link in my signature) which overhaul completely characters in the game, and create more race difference, and specialization.

For example there are some races that have serious bonuses to skills which influence "Revolt" spy operation success, and some specialize on using Armor, some using special forces, some races strong troops with very high regen, etc.... Yereni have weak ground troops and fraggle themselves, but their minds able to micromanage their columns of tanks extremelly well resulting with stacking heavy bonuses on Armor troops usage, while Dlakars are 100 m huge tough worms resulting with maximum strength/hp possible in the game and regeneration able to outtank invasions if provided with right professional general, and etc), This means currently even there are tools in the game to create flavor and difference in military conquest, only that requires really hardcore overhaul and modding to implement.

Your ideas are nice, some of them already exist subtly in the game, while others need to be implemented by the devs.

If you interested i will release new mod version soon and you are invited to try it and try flavour military conquest (there alot of it) with all races (11, 10 of them capable in different kinds of ground invasion due heavy race-specific specialization, and taking some values from race.txt and policies to altered values)) which have their character sets done.
I also will really appreciate your oppinion/feedbak on what is done in this particular direction in case you will try it out.
Cheers.



Evan85 -> RE: Non-military conquest suggestions (8/20/2014 11:48:38 AM)

Not sure what does the op mean. There are many races even in vanilla that has victory conditions completely unrelated to conquest. The basic 'have x% of population/economy in the galaxy' can be toned down or turned off if you don't want to attack others.

Also:

-spies can make a colony rebel, and if it's in your influence, it might even join your empire.

-planets *can* be bought, though it needs good diplomatic relations. And a pile of cash.

-you can form mutual protection pacts, protectorates, or just subjugate empires. Though all three implies that you have a sizable space force (that doesn't too peaceful, even if you don't invade others).

-you can feed pirates on the teritorry of others. With the AI improvement mod, they can completely wreck rivals while your hands stay clean. I assume that they can cause pain in vanilla too.

-it's possible to pick a combat-heavy race to ally with and get them to do the wars for you.


I'm having a pretty fun, though irregular non-combat game as Paratis (extended mod insectoid race, +50% spies, declare the fewest wars win condition). I resisted to invade the neighboring Boskara, instead I fed them with stolen techs -and- not too valuable colonies. The result: the galaxy doesn't hate me for having a huge Empire, so I can form trade agreements. Boskara likes me, but everyone hates them, so they get in a lot of wars. They are tough and fed, so they can keep other races from winning. Sometimes it needs a nudge from my part, but they do their stuff pretty well. Also my ships do blocades and spies take down a starport or two, so my pet-bugs can advance even better. If they get close to winning, I just buy a planet or two of theirs.



Euler -> RE: Non-military conquest suggestions (8/21/2014 9:31:20 PM)

Thanks for your replies. I do agree you can turn off the victory conditions, but that is a little different from what I am suggesting, which is more alternate paths for conquest. I am sure I don't have as much experience playing the game as you so I may be missing out on a few things, but I think I am really asking for some of those strategies you mentioned to be more readily available as alternate conquest strategies. For example,

-it's great spies can make colonies rebel, but in my experience (1) it's hard to do, and (2) doesn't always cause it to come over to your side. I'd like to make it more accessible so it can be more readily implemented by races with the right bonuses. I was thinking a coup would have a more direct cause/effect than the current rebellion option.

-I didn't know planets could be bought (never seen it myself), so that's good to know from a game mechanics point of view. I'd like it to be more common and affordable (why require good relations? Maybe just have trade relations), so it could be more accessible as an economic conquest strategy.

-I haven't probably explored everything that can be done with diplomacy, but I would like to see more persuasive diplomacy options. Maybe they are already there but I just have not seen them. Once again, make more accessible so it is more part of the game.

-I'd still like to see a "research" weapon which benefits races that do a lot of research. You could argue that the military path is actually research since you get better weapons through research, but I do not think of Quameno as a warrior race for example. It would be cool if there was a non-military asymmetric research weapon like mind control for example.

I haven't tried the latest mods, so I am going to do that now. It sounds like some of these ideas are being implemented there. The new mods look awesome!



NephilimNexus -> RE: Non-military conquest suggestions (9/22/2014 4:00:34 AM)

Most 4X games have an option called "Alliance Victory" which lets you win if you're allied with all surviving empires. Heck, even MOO2 had this - it was one of the three official victory conditions.

Interestingly enough, it is pirates that have a non-military conquest option. In theory, smuggling ships cause a small increase in their Influence, which can eventually allow them to construct pirate bases without an actual warship ever appearing.

I say "in theory" because in reality this never happens, as the influence gain from smugglers is utterly trivial and is quickly lost, and pirate bases are so easily destroyed by ground troops that there would be little point even if it worked.



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