What is the scenery bonus of ruins? (Full Version)

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morik -> What is the scenery bonus of ruins? (8/26/2014 9:38:00 PM)

How should I evaluate ruins vs other things when deciding where to put a resort?

My home system has a metal astroid (37% scenery), and the two planets/moons with ruins on them. Anyone know which will draw the most tourism? (I assume there isn't much point in building resorts at all of them; would probably cost more in upkeep than its worth, right?)



Hikikomori -> RE: What is the scenery bonus of ruins? (8/27/2014 1:48:46 PM)

Actually, i have found that resort bases are a rather nice source of income, i got from 2 in my last game about 30k a year or something like that. It takes a while to get going, and i believe the income is like the income from the private sector buying ships from you a summary of the income from the beginning of the year until now.

If the amount is not great at the beginning, it is as far as i know because the tourism takes a while to show up in the financial report and is not fully operational from day one in the first place.

Do not forget to build cargo bays into the design of resort bases, or you won't be able to upgrade them. Also, i have never seen more than around 3-4 million visitors at a station, so my excess capacity was rather great. I probably should design them a little cheaper/smaller next time.



feygan -> RE: What is the scenery bonus of ruins? (8/28/2014 7:52:33 AM)

The planets with ruins can be better used depending on their type. If they are barren types then a resort base is your only option, but if you can colonise them then do so. The development bonus the ruins will give the colony will far outweigh the quick cash induction a resort base gives.

However if you know you will not be able to colonise them anytime within the near future then stick a resort base on them as fast as you can. They will cost you nothing to upkeep compared to the income they provide, build em fast and build em as big as you can.



Emperor0Akim -> RE: What is the scenery bonus of ruins? (5/10/2016 1:39:47 AM)

Instead of starting a new thread, I necro this one because the initial question was not answered.
And all my searching did not give me an answer.

Also I don't know how the scenery bonus really works.
I guess something like the ressource percentage on planets.

But it would be really nice to know how Ruins range in the order in which to build the resort bases.



Bingeling -> RE: What is the scenery bonus of ruins? (5/10/2016 5:58:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: morik

How should I evaluate ruins vs other things when deciding where to put a resort?

My home system has a metal astroid (37% scenery), and the two planets/moons with ruins on them. Anyone know which will draw the most tourism? (I assume there isn't much point in building resorts at all of them; would probably cost more in upkeep than its worth, right?)

A ruin should give no bonus to a resort base unless saying so. So keep your resort bases at scenery bonus sites, preferably somewhat close to "major populations".

It could be that resort bases get visits even with no scenery bonus, but in that case the presence of a ruin should not matter. Use the left hand buttons/filters to quickly see where the scenery bonuses are.

For me, resort bases are sometimes very profitable, and at other times they seem to generate no income at all. I would not build all that any of them. If you have a population center with no scenery location, you could try to build a resort base and see what happens. In that case I would put it under a well defended spaceport, just to add some protection.




Emperor0Akim -> RE: What is the scenery bonus of ruins? (5/10/2016 9:16:38 AM)

Well it says so in the Galactopedia :)


As to Quote :

"From the Galactopedia ( Page Ancient Ruins )

Ruins are also considered to be scenic locations, and thus will attract tourism
to any colony that has them. If ruins are at an uninhabited planet or moon,
then you can build a resort base there to allow tourism to the ruins.

From the Galactopedia ( Page Tourism )

Scenic locations can include the following

- ringed planets
- balck holes
- neutron stars
- unusual gold or crystal asteroids
- planets with unusuasl ruins or ancient monuments
- colonies with wonders

...

Colonies with ancient ruins or wonders will attract tourism without
the need to build a resort base at the colony.

The volume of tourists that a resorts attracts depends on how
scenic the location is, and how close it is to large, wealthy colonies.

Income from Tourism

Income is derived when passenger ships arrive at a resort.
The amount of income depends on how many passengers the ship was
carrying. " End of Quote

So according to this Ruins and Wonders have some kind of Scenic Bonus, which
is either a fixed value or maybe tied into/equal to the Colony Development Bonus

If it is the second, then Ruins would make poor to decent tourist targets indeed.
Since the max Bonus of a Ruin can be 50%.
But it is really hard to pinpoint how much a single Resort makes because it is only shown as one pretty vague value which is also diluted by the timeshift until it is calculated.

So I would be pretty happy if there was an answer in the Distant World Knowledgespace :)

So long I keep to my habit of spamming them on every scenic location near a population center .. independent of the empire it actuall belongs to :D









Hattori Hanzo -> RE: What is the scenery bonus of ruins? (5/10/2016 6:50:26 PM)

quote:

So I would be pretty happy if there was an answer in the Distant World Knowledgespace :)


where can be found that "Distant Worlds Knowledgespace".. ??? [&:]



Emperor0Akim -> RE: What is the scenery bonus of ruins? (5/10/2016 8:28:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hattori Hanzo

quote:

So I would be pretty happy if there was an answer in the Distant World Knowledgespace :)


where can be found that "Distant Worlds Knowledgespace".. ??? [&:]



Well .. somewhere between FourtyTwo, Jeeves Brain and the Three Oaks behind the Matrixgames Building where all the Unedited Manuals are buried.

I just hoped something had survived in the Interwebs. I mean honestly .. somebody should know ..



Aeson -> RE: What is the scenery bonus of ruins? (5/10/2016 8:36:38 PM)

quote:

where can be found that "Distant Worlds Knowledgespace".. ?

A knowledgespace isn't necessarily any specific website (well, sometimes one might use that in a website name) or a physical location but rather the conceptual "space" in which the collective knowledge of a group may be found. One "Distant Worlds Knowledgespace" would be the collective knowledge and experience of the group of players and the developers who use this forum, with this forum being the means by which the knowledgespace is accessed.



Hattori Hanzo -> RE: What is the scenery bonus of ruins? (5/10/2016 8:50:46 PM)

well, I'm used to consider this DW:U official forum that "Distant Worlds Knowledgespace".
anyway, some sort of "Distant Worlds" Wiki space on the web it would be extremely useful in my opinion.
something similar to the Paradox grand strategy wargames Wiki.



Aeson -> RE: What is the scenery bonus of ruins? (5/10/2016 9:36:09 PM)

quote:

anyway, some sort of "Distant Worlds" Wiki space on the web it would be extremely useful in my opinion.

You mean like this one?

quote:

I just hoped something had survived in the Interwebs. I mean honestly .. somebody should know ..

It's an old game. That doesn't mean that anyone has ever looked into what the actual scenic bonus of a resort base is, and while the developers may once have known, the game's more than old enough for them to have forgotten. It's possible that the scenery bonus that a ruin provides is variable; most of the other scenic locations have variable scenery bonuses, after all. It's also possible that ruins don't have a scenery bonus if the planet hosting the ruin does not list a scenery bonus.



Retreat1970 -> RE: What is the scenery bonus of ruins? (5/10/2016 10:04:20 PM)

Aeson is right. It's an old game. Most of the old timers are gone, or just lurk around occasionally.

I'll give my 2 cents though. Ruins give 0 bonus, scenery bonus locations give that bonus, and other locations with a base will not attract tourists. When and how the income is gathered, I don't know, but in all honesty I don't care. Resort bases give some cash sometimes, and that's good enough for me.



Emperor0Akim -> RE: What is the scenery bonus of ruins? (5/11/2016 12:01:40 PM)

You all are right about that.

But since its an old game and this forum is still somewhat alive ..
Like I said. And maybe I get a drive-by answer from an old-timer if the question is on the front page :)



Bingeling -> RE: What is the scenery bonus of ruins? (5/11/2016 4:13:18 PM)

You cheated and checked the galactopedia ;-).

I would not trust that 100%. As you point out, resort income is very much obscured. This is a complex game with limited tools to get information, and seeing what contributes to that is really hard even if you try to figure it out.

Even a simple thing like observing exactly who pays (state or civilians), and how much (the value stated?), to build a single mine is difficult. Money ticks up and down all the time, and seeing the exact sum subtracted is hard to do.

As for resort income, that seems rather random to me. I have never seen any pattern as to why one resort base has a lot of income, and another has none. I have easily put that in the drawer of "features that I don't pay attention to". One beautiful thing with this game, is that it can be payed at many different attention levels. It is quite possible to be quite ignorant of what goes on behind some areas of automation, for instance.



Emperor0Akim -> RE: What is the scenery bonus of ruins? (5/11/2016 4:31:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

You cheated and checked the galactopedia ;-).

I would not trust that 100%. As you point out, resort income is very much obscured. This is a complex game with limited tools to get information, and seeing what contributes to that is really hard even if you try to figure it out.

Even a simple thing like observing exactly who pays (state or civilians), and how much (the value stated?), to build a single mine is difficult. Money ticks up and down all the time, and seeing the exact sum subtracted is hard to do.

As for resort income, that seems rather random to me. I have never seen any pattern as to why one resort base has a lot of income, and another has none. I have easily put that in the drawer of "features that I don't pay attention to". One beautiful thing with this game, is that it can be payed at many different attention levels. It is quite possible to be quite ignorant of what goes on behind some areas of automation, for instance.




I don't know if it's really cheating, I just answered where it says that Ruins give a Bonus. And since we both concur, that it is not the most accurate information I think its fair game. Especially since I could not copy and paste the text :(

But you are right about the testing. I have pondered the whole morning how to come up with the !!SCIENCE!! to solve this riddle and came up with nothing. There is just to much financial moving and I am to impatient for trial and wait and wait and error.

--- Edit --- Afterthought

But with the sudden activity in this thread I guess its still a question that troubles the mind of some people.


The sad thing is, as I started out playing and searched through the menues by feeling and common 4x-knowledge. And whenever the question
crossed my mind "I wish I could see this and that information" it was followed shortly after with a "aaah there it is .. I should have looked
better the first time " and most of the time it made sense.

And so it really baffles my mind that some information, though not critical for the actual gameplay, but important enough to make informed descisions when not playing on "full auto".




Aeson -> RE: What is the scenery bonus of ruins? (5/11/2016 7:56:19 PM)

quote:

But you are right about the testing. I have pondered the whole morning how to come up with the !!SCIENCE!! to solve this riddle and came up with nothing. There is just to much financial moving and I am to impatient for trial and wait and wait and error.

A quick test using the in-game editor suggests that resorts generate ~3k credits per batch of 20k tourists delivered to the resort, regardless of the scenery bonus. The test was conducted by spawning in a moon with a ruin, building a resort base over the moon, and watching income generation for a while, then using the editor to remove the ruin and set a scenery bonus for the moon (first 25%, then 100%), scrap and rebuild the existing resort base, and watching the income generation for a while to see if income generated per visit changed. It would therefore appear as though the scenery bonus is an 'attractiveness' modifier for the resort base rather than a direct income modifier, and presumably affects the volume of tourist traffic that the resort base receives. As far as I know, tourists never leave a resort base, either, so you can determine the total income generated by a given resort base since it began operation by looking at the number of tourists currently on board the resort base.

One potential test would be to generate a game and, using the editor, spawn in two resort locations and accompanying bases, one of which is over something with a scenery bonus and one of which is over something with a ruin. I would suggest that you put both resort locations in the same system, preferably somewhat close to one another (e.g. two moons of the same gas giant), over the same type of object, and sufficiently far from any populated location that the distance between one resort base and the point(s) of origin of any tourists who come visit it is negligibly different from the distance between the other resort base and the point(s) of origin of any tourists who com visit it, as this should help isolate the scenery bonus as the primary variable affecting tourist traffic at the two resort bases. Whichever resort gets more business over the course of, say, an in-game year is the more 'attractive' resort. This would allow you to experimentally establish an upper or lower bound for the effective scenery bonus of a ruin (e.g. if the ruin gets less business than a 25% scenery moon, the upper bound on the effective scenery bonus of that ruin is 25%); a sequence of such tests could be used to progressively refine the bounds on the effective scenery bonus.



Bingeling -> RE: What is the scenery bonus of ruins? (5/11/2016 7:56:54 PM)

Science test for ruins: Find a system with a ruin. Place one resort base on ruin site and another at another "non ruin" site in the same system. Watch their visitor numbers. Is there a systematic difference?

Repeat a few times. Compare only the bases in the same system, ruin vs non-ruin.

It should be possible to do during normal games, you could even use two systems quite a distance apart. There are some expenses in running extra resort bases, but it should not be too important in any game after the economy "takes off".



Hattori Hanzo -> RE: What is the scenery bonus of ruins? (5/11/2016 10:15:43 PM)

quote:

quote:anyway, some sort of "Distant Worlds" Wiki space on the web it would be extremely useful in my opinion.

quote:

You mean like this one?



thank you Aeson, very useful !!! [X(]




Emperor0Akim -> RE: What is the scenery bonus of ruins? (5/12/2016 1:30:34 PM)

Well I started the Science.

I allready wrote a page, then I clicked wrong and it all went away again :(

I write again later.



Bingeling -> RE: What is the scenery bonus of ruins? (5/12/2016 4:07:18 PM)

As an old AAR writer, I would just say: If you are to write a longer essay, write it somewhere else, then paste it to the forum. Notepad works just fine (notepad++ works better).



Hattori Hanzo -> RE: What is the scenery bonus of ruins? (5/12/2016 5:47:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor0Akim

Well I started the Science.

I allready wrote a page, then I clicked wrong and it all went away again :(

I write again later.


happened also to me millions of time.. [:@]



Emperor0Akim -> RE: What is the scenery bonus of ruins? (5/12/2016 7:50:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

As an old AAR writer, I would just say: If you are to write a longer essay, write it somewhere else, then paste it to the forum. Notepad works just fine (notepad++ works better).


Thanks :)

Yeah Notepad++ is the best :)

If I want to write something larger, I write it outside the normal Reply Window.
What happened was I wanted to write something short and it got out of hand :)

Happens to the best of us, and to me :)

--- Edit ---

Also the phenomena when you push the send button and notice you forgot something ..

The research is doing great so far. Three years in, and there may actually be an answer :)



Emperor0Akim -> RE: What is the scenery bonus of ruins? (5/13/2016 4:38:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aeson

quote:

But you are right about the testing. I have pondered the whole morning how to come up with the !!SCIENCE!! to solve this riddle and came up with nothing. There is just to much financial moving and I am to impatient for trial and wait and wait and error.

A quick test using the in-game editor suggests that resorts generate ~3k credits per batch of 20k tourists delivered to the resort, regardless of the scenery bonus. The test was conducted by spawning in a moon with a ruin, building a resort base over the moon, and watching income generation for a while, then using the editor to remove the ruin and set a scenery bonus for the moon (first 25%, then 100%), scrap and rebuild the existing resort base, and watching the income generation for a while to see if income generated per visit changed. It would therefore appear as though the scenery bonus is an 'attractiveness' modifier for the resort base rather than a direct income modifier, and presumably affects the volume of tourist traffic that the resort base receives. As far as I know, tourists never leave a resort base, either, so you can determine the total income generated by a given resort base since it began operation by looking at the number of tourists currently on board the resort base.

One potential test would be to generate a game and, using the editor, spawn in two resort locations and accompanying bases, one of which is over something with a scenery bonus and one of which is over something with a ruin. I would suggest that you put both resort locations in the same system, preferably somewhat close to one another (e.g. two moons of the same gas giant), over the same type of object, and sufficiently far from any populated location that the distance between one resort base and the point(s) of origin of any tourists who come visit it is negligibly different from the distance between the other resort base and the point(s) of origin of any tourists who com visit it, as this should help isolate the scenery bonus as the primary variable affecting tourist traffic at the two resort bases. Whichever resort gets more business over the course of, say, an in-game year is the more 'attractive' resort. This would allow you to experimentally establish an upper or lower bound for the effective scenery bonus of a ruin (e.g. if the ruin gets less business than a 25% scenery moon, the upper bound on the effective scenery bonus of that ruin is 25%); a sequence of such tests could be used to progressively refine the bounds on the effective scenery bonus.


Aeson, Please don't laugh or cry. I really did not see nor read your post until today .. somehow I must have skipped it .. but alas ..
thats what I did.

FOR SCIENCE ! ( brought to you by Notepad++ )



I started the experiment with two allready existing Resortbases in my current game.
All the resortbases are of the same Design and Version.
The Maximum Capacity is 36000k ( 30x 1200 normal Passenger Compartment. )
The Passenger Transports have a capacity of 12000k ( 10 Compartments ) which was never used for Tourism,
but for Migrants, so size still matters. Just not for the experiment :D

In the end I had four Bases :

Resort1 : Placed in my starting System on a Ancient Ruin with 15% Development Bonus.
Resort2 : Placed in my starting System on a Ancient Ruin with 21% Development Bonus.
Resort3 : Placed in my starting System on a Scenic Location with 29% Scenery Bonus.

Resort4 : Placed on a nearby Black Hole with 68% Scenery Bonus.


To be honest, this game runs under the A.I. Improvement Mod, but that should not matter for this particular experiment.
I checked every half year the number of tourists on the station, the number of passenger ships and the populations growth.
It seems, that Distance does not matter, because I have seen a Passenger Ship Transporting a Group of Mortalen Tourists across
5 Sectors to a Wekkaru Ocean Planet with no Tourism Bonus whatsoever ( no scenic, no ruin, no wonder )


Stardate 2120.08 -

Number of Colonies 9
Population 25 Bil.
24 Passenger Ships

Ruin1 (15%) - 140k Tourists
Ruin2 (21%) - under Construction
Ruin3 (27%) - not started
Scenic(68%) - 380k Tourists


Stardate 2121.02 -

Number of Colonies 11
Population 28.2 Bil.
30 Passenger Ships

Ruin1 (15%) - 160k Tourists ( +20k )
Ruin2 (21%) - under Construction
Ruin3 (27%) - not started
Scenic(68%) - 460k Tourists ( +80k)


Stardate 2121.08 -

Number of Colonies 11
Population 28.8 Bil.
30 Passenger Ships

Ruin1 (15%) - 160k Tourists ( +0k )
Ruin2 (21%) - Completed 2121.06
Ruin3 (27%) - not started
Scenic(68%) - 500k Tourists ( +40k)


Stardate 2122.02 -

Number of Colonies 12
Population 29.7 Bil.
30 Passenger Ships

Ruin1 (15%) - 160k Tourists ( +0k )
Ruin2 (21%) - 000k Tourists ( +0k )
Ruin3 (27%) - 8under Construction
Scenic(68%) - 520k Tourists ( +20k)


Stardate 2122.08 -

Number of Colonies 12
Population 30.8 Bil.
30 Passenger Ships

Ruin1 (15%) - 160k Tourists ( +0k )
Ruin2 (21%) - 020k Tourists ( +20k )
Ruin3 (27%) - completet 2122.09
Scenic(68%) - 700k Tourists ( +180k)


Stardate 2123.02 -

Number of Colonies 13
Population 30.8 Bil. ( I actually forgot to write down the pop-change here )
30 Passenger Ships

Ruin1 (15%) - 160k Tourists ( +0k )
Ruin2 (21%) - 040k Tourists ( +20k )
Ruin3 (27%) - 020k Tourists ( +20k )
Scenic(68%) - 720k Tourists ( +20k )


Stardate 2123.08 -

Number of Colonies 14
Population 33.3 Bil.
30 Passenger Ships

Ruin1 (15%) - 160k Tourists ( +0k )
Ruin2 (21%) - 040k Tourists ( +0k )
Ruin3 (27%) - 020k Tourists ( +0k )
Scenic(68%) - 720k Tourists ( +0k )


Stardate 2124.02 -

Number of Colonies 14
Population 34.8 Bil.
30 Passenger Ships

Ruin1 (15%) - 160k Tourists ( +0k )
Ruin2 (21%) - 040k Tourists ( +0k )
Ruin3 (27%) - 040k Tourists ( +20k )
Scenic(68%) - 760k Tourists ( +40k )



Of the 30 Passenger Ships about half where engaged in transporting Tourists, while the other half was tansporting Migrants. This alternated a bit with sometimes more Migrant Ships and sometimes more Tourist Ships, but about half for either job kept true.
The Number of Passenger Ships changed in the beginning after I aquired a large independet Colony with about 3000M inhabitants.
While raising the Number of Colonies through empty planets the Number staid the same. I will watch this further

Now the Resort Bases where all actually used. That proves that Ancient Ruins are Scenic locations.
By the rise and stagnation of the Visitor Numbers I conclude that the Development Bonus of the Ancient Ruins is used as Scenic Bonus.
Also that distance is not important to the attraction of tourist through your empire, but this might also just be the lack of other
Options and the size of the bonus seems to be the biggest modifier.

Income was generated whenever a Passenger Ship arrived at a location. Which then was displayd for a month in the Empire Overview.
My guesstimate here is, that a constant value is used that gets multiplied by the number of tourists arriving and then ( hopefully ) modified by the commerce center and
leader skill.

Then there are also Colony Govenors. A particular Skill I once had made me wonder if those Guys may work their mojo systemwide.
The Skill was called "Civilian Base Maintenance Reduction" .. and since the only civilian Bases are Mines, which can not be build on colonies,
the skill is either the most useless skill ever .. or an indicator that colony govenors have a system wide radius. But that has nothing to do
other that a govenor could be a nice asset to a system full of Resort Bases.


So Conclusions

1.) Passenger Ships are dependent on the Population Size, not the Number of Colonies.
2.) Ancient Ruins are Scenic Locations. The Development Bonus counts as Scenic Bonus
3.) Wonders are Scenic Locations. The Development Bonus counts as Scenic Bonus.


Theories

1.) The Size of the Scenic Bonus may be more important than Distance or it is a Balancing Formula like Planetsize/Quality
2.) The Resort/Tourism income is fixed value Multiplied By Number of Tourist and Modified by Empire Bonuses. Not Scenery Bonus.
3.) The Scenery Bonus effects the Number of Tourists attracted per Ship and may effect Distance.

Questions

1.) Does Tourism income on Colonies count as Spaceport income ?
2.) What if there is no Spaceport ?
3.) How much is the Base Income Variable ?*
4.) Which role does Distance play in Tourism ? It obviously is a factor in Migration.
5.) What are the triggers for Passenger Ships ?
6.) Does the Number of Resorts effect the Number of Passenger Ships ?
7.) Does the Number of Resorts effect the Number of Tourist Dedicated Ships, and therefor slow down Migration ?

Questions Raised By Aeson
6.) Is there Really a Hotel California Situation ?
7.) What happens when the Passenger Limit is reached ?


I will try to answer and verify my findings by further watching the Passenger Transports.
In the next Test I have to Track their exact movement and the rise Income whenever they arrive at a location.
Which also means I have to analyze Private Sector Ship construction to counter-calculate the income.
Well. There are only 360 Private Ships in my Empire at the moment. :)


*As seen in the Quote Aeson answered Question 3. eight Days ago : 3k for 20M.





Emperor0Akim -> RE: What is the scenery bonus of ruins? (5/13/2016 6:49:26 PM)

Wow. Thats a lot of ships.
I prepared the excel file for the next test.
Detailed every location of my empire and what every of my passenger ships is doing.
also checked out what my freighters are doing. I think my economy is recovering quite well from the BS I tried while overequipping my private fleet. It seems the A.I. Improvement Mod is a little less forgiving on this front. On the other hand, this is one of the first games I overreached myself and have now quite the yarrringitis infection.

And that a-hole rat grabbed four worlds right under my nose .. but only after I started battling the pirates in this region .. well he also got the Trade Network before me .. maybe it's time to remedy that.
At least my Foreign Research Specialist got a few things in return.

Well back to Passenger Transports, the first and funniest thing I learned in my investigation is that my Passenger Ships pick up Migrants and Tourist from Other Empires.

--- Edit ---

The second thing I learned is, I either have enough fuel and gasses, or my Gas Extractor Ships are a bunch of Lazy Labor Unionists





Damiac -> RE: What is the scenery bonus of ruins? (6/15/2016 9:53:13 PM)

So... am I reading this right that resort bases can be filled to their capacity, generating 3k per 20k visitors, then once it's full you might as well scrap it, because you'll never get a new visitor as nobody ever leaves?

That can't be intended... but even so, the default design of resort station costs about 8k. So 60k passengers pays back the initial investment. As long as you get enough passengers to offset the maintenance cost, it will make you money, up until it fills up, at which point it will never make you another dime, although it will keep costing you maintenance funds.

Now... what happens when you scrap that base? Are all those people just floating in space? Will I actually hurt my tax base if I have a lot of resort stations? After all, the visitors from my empire going to a resort are people not living on a planet paying taxes! It makes me wonder if it's possible to build resorts which mostly cater to other empire's citizens...



Aeson -> RE: What is the scenery bonus of ruins? (6/16/2016 4:56:48 AM)

quote:

So... am I reading this right that resort bases can be filled to their capacity, generating 3k per 20k visitors, then once it's full you might as well scrap it, because you'll never get a new visitor as nobody ever leaves?

Theoretically, sure, but even unupgraded Standard Passenger Compartments can hold up to 1.2 million guests, and there's a distinct possibility that you'll have more than one on the station. At 60 tourist groups per unupgraded Standard Passenger Compartment, you can go a long time before a resort base becomes unable to accept more guests, and with upgraded components you'll go even longer.

quote:

It makes me wonder if it's possible to build resorts which mostly cater to other empire's citizens...

Yes, in theory. Build a resort base close to a foreign empire's colonies over an attractive location, and you should see passenger ships arriving from those colonies to deliver tourists, and if your own colonies are relatively distant you may see more foreign tourist traffic than native tourist traffic. Of course, the base does need to be sufficiently attractive to draw tourist traffic, and building close to another empire's colonies can be problematic, especially with colony influence turned up.

Even resort bases relatively distant from foreign colonies and close to your own might see some foreign tourism traffic; really depends on luck of the draw and how attractive the resort is relative to the other resorts that the tourists could be going to, and also a bit on whether or not the passenger ships have sufficient range to actually move tourists over the required distances.

quote:

what happens when you scrap that base? Are all those people just floating in space?

They vanish from the game. Based on what happens to characters stationed on a ship or station that you scrap, I'd say that they die, though there are no penalties to diplomatic relations or empire happiness for doing this (in fact, if the resort base was in foreign territory, relations may even improve afterwards), so you could argue that they all take off in personal shuttles or something like that.

quote:

Will I actually hurt my tax base if I have a lot of resort stations?

Theoretically yes, in practice no. People on resort bases do not count against planetary population caps, and 20,000 people per tourist group is negligible compared to both planetary populations and population growth rates. Consider that newly-founded colonies have a population of at least 30 million, that the lowest population allowed for a colonized planet is 1 million, and that colonies with growth rates under a few percent per year frequently have populations at least in the high hundreds of millions if not billions or tens of billions. A colony of only one billion people that grows at 1% per year could see around 500 tourist groups depart per year without really losing population (depending, a bit, on how the departures are distributed), and I very rarely bother to tax colonies with populations of even a few billion anyways.

More dangerous to your tax base, at least in the short term, is emigration; those passenger ships that can carry off 20,000 tourists to a resort base can (and will, whenever they take a migrate mission rather than a tourism mission) move millions, tens of millions, maybe even hundreds of millions (if you've really stacked up the passenger modules; requires at least 28 fully-upgraded Massive Passenger Compartments to break 100 million per load, though) of people off of a colony at once, and will usually be delivering those passengers to undeveloped or underdeveloped colonies that either aren't paying taxes or don't pay as much tax per capita as the world(s) from which population is being removed.

Basically, the size of tourist groups is so negligible by comparison to just about anything else population-related in the game (especially compared to populations which are actually worth taxing) that it would take enormous numbers of tourist groups departing in a short period of time to do anything noticable to your tax income.



Damiac -> RE: What is the scenery bonus of ruins? (6/16/2016 1:14:04 PM)

Heh, sure, it does all seem rather negligible, but still, I like digging into the minutia of things like that. I tend to just build as many tourist bases are there are locations on the little resort location finder, and they all seem to make some money, I'm just trying to figure out the theoretical optimal way to use them, even if I will never actually do it in practice. There's playing the game, and there's gaming the game, and I like to do both [:D]



Cauldyth -> RE: What is the scenery bonus of ruins? (6/17/2016 10:48:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Damiac
nobody ever leaves?

Time to rename all my resort bases Hotel California.



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