RE: Battle of the Andamans Sea

RE: Battle of the Andamans Sea (Full Version)

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Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: Battle of the Andamans Sea (9/25/2017 1:01:09 PM)
Great news for the empire! will make the game a lot more interesting

Lowpe -> RE: Battle of the Andamans Sea (9/25/2017 1:30:29 PM)
Never have I sent a turn with more frightened anticipation than this one... The Joy and Agony of a JFB...every potential CV clash is like this.[;)] Well done. Lots of lessons to be learned in this three day fight in Aug of 1943.

Bif1961 -> RE: Battle of the Andamans Sea (9/27/2017 12:39:22 AM)
He rushed in and got his nose broke, you must have had 9-10 Fleet carries to pull off a 505 plane coordinated strike. That means at this point in the war you must have had near parity with his fleet. Sounds like you plan to exploit your current advantage, which makes sense since the only real chance you have is to sunk his carriers, not simply to damage them and let them return later. If you next days turn results in sinking half of his carrier fleet then his invasion fleet is horribly exposed.

LargeSlowTarget -> RE: Battle of the Andamans Sea (9/28/2017 2:53:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jwolf Your main strike was amazingly well coordinated, more than 550 planes! [X(] Very impressive ... and effective as well. Since you now control the seas in that area ... for a while ... will you consider a counter-invasion anywhere? Or are there no troops for it? quote: ORIGINAL: Bif1961 He rushed in and got his nose broke, you must have had 9-10 Fleet carries to pull off a 505 plane coordinated strike. That means at this point in the war you must have had near parity with his fleet. Sounds like you plan to exploit your current advantage, which makes sense since the only real chance you have is to sunk his carriers, not simply to damage them and let them return later. If you next days turn results in sinking half of his carrier fleet then his invasion fleet is horribly exposed. Yes, coordination of the first strike was perfect. 11 CVs and one CVL in two TFs involved, that are all available fleet carriers. Ryujo, Shoho and Zuiho have been sunk by subs in 1942, Hiyo is still under repair and the CVEs are either in the Koepang- Ambon area or escorting tanker convoys. I have resized the air groups to be fighter-heavy. but with small bomber groups and heavy bomber losses I now have little offensive power left. No Allied carriers has been sunk yet, and Allied damage control can do wonders. I plan to go all-out against the cripples, but there are two unhurt Allied carriers and my rush may backfire. No counter-invasion planned for lack of suitable ground forces. May take a while, my opponent wrote that he's pretty depressed and needs some time off. Here is a pic of the air groups and TF composition before the battle: [image]local://upfiles/1313/770CFC0A3B494125A51DE57DC3F26092.jpg[/image]

adarbrauner -> RE: Battle of the Andamans Sea (9/28/2017 7:27:11 AM)
May take a while, my opponent wrote that he's pretty depressed and needs some time off. [:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

jwolf -> RE: Battle of the Andamans Sea (9/28/2017 2:17:02 PM)
quote: May take a while, my opponent wrote that he's pretty depressed and needs some time off. This may be a sign that the Allied damage control might not be working quite as wonderfully as you feared.

Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: Battle of the Andamans Sea (9/28/2017 2:24:49 PM)
I am checking the forum at least twice every day for the next Ed's AAR update, [:D] [:-]

LargeSlowTarget -> RE: Battle of the Andamans Sea (9/28/2017 4:04:09 PM)
Got a message from Ed. He has re-checked the orders he has given for the disaster turn and has found three issues. Three of his carrier squadrons have wrong, unintended settings. He explained that the Hellcat squadron of CVL Independence and the Martlet squadron of CV Victorious have been left on LRCAP over Trinkat, when they should have been set to local CAP / escort. More importantly, he found that the SBD squadron on Enterprise, which was the designated naval search unit, was set by accident to 100ft. This has probably reduced the effectiveness of his naval search to a point that the DL on my carriers was very low - and as we know, DL is everything. Ed has requested a redo of the turn with orders changed only for the three squadrons concerned. I'm okay with that, since those settings seem to be genuine mistakes and not merely bad choices. We have already done a redo before upon my request, when I forgot to set a stand-off range for a group of CVEs set to follow a bombardment TF - the CVEs followed unintentionally into the base hex and a surface SAG ambush. So this is my occasion to return the favor. I expect less lopsided results in the redo, with results both sides can live with. Should the redo end in a disaster for Japan this time, we have agreed to do a third redo with both sides gentlemanly withdrawing all assets in order to avoid a carrier clash. The game is such a time investment that it would be a shame to rage-quit over the results of one turn. Awaiting Ed's redo.

LargeSlowTarget -> RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested (9/28/2017 4:24:56 PM)
[was intended as placeholder for redo AAR but it's actually better to continue after the reader comments]

LargeSlowTarget -> RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested (9/28/2017 4:25:52 PM)
[was intended as placeholder for redo AAR but it's actually better to continue after the reader comments]

adarbrauner -> RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested (9/28/2017 9:08:47 PM)
[:(]

jwolf -> RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested (9/28/2017 10:30:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: adarbrauner [:(] Understandable, but if the two players agree it's not for us to argue otherwise.

adarbrauner -> RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested (9/28/2017 10:36:57 PM)
he'll end up winnig this turn anyway

Bif1961 -> RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested (9/28/2017 11:49:04 PM)
I remember when Nagumo raged quit after Midway. My point was in war mistakes are made and it wasn't some fluky game engine glitch that caused the results you achieved. However if you agree to a do over you are a better man than me. I hope the results aren't an Allied victory because you deserve your hard won victory.

Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested (9/28/2017 11:57:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jwolf quote: ORIGINAL: adarbrauner [:(] if the two players agree it's not for us to argue otherwise. +1 and there was a precedent so really nothing more to say about it

Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested (9/29/2017 12:03:11 AM)
"we have agreed to do a third redo with both sides gentlemanly withdrawing all assets in order to avoid a carrier clash. " If you get into the 3rd redo, I think you have the right to request an operational pause of at least some weeks in that area

Lowpe -> RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested (9/29/2017 4:29:27 AM)
I wonder what impact 100' naval search really had? The planes would have been shot down by flak at an impressive number. Do you recall from the replay if that was the case? If I recall correctly there was heavy storms in the Allied hex...redoing the turn will change the weather...if you get better weather for your torpedo planes...the Allies may rue the day he asked for a redo. Always nice to give and take.[&o]

LargeSlowTarget -> RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested (9/29/2017 8:27:22 AM)
Ok, got the turn this morning and watched the replay at work - if my boss would know why I'm often the first one to arrive at the office... [;)] quote: AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Aug 28, 43 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Trinkat at 44,64, Range 11,000 Yards Allied aircraft no flights Allied aircraft losses Seagull V: 2 destroyed Japanese Ships CA Takao, Shell hits 2 CA Atago, Shell hits 3 CA Myoko, Shell hits 2 CA Mogami, Shell hits 2 CA Mikuma DD Yugumo, Shell hits 1 DD Akigumo DD Takanami DD Hayanami DD Kiyonami DD Hamanami, Shell hits 1, on fire DD Asashimo DD Asashio, Shell hits 1, on fire DD Oshio DD Michishio Allied Ships CA Shropshire, Shell hits 14, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk CA Sussex, Shell hits 19, heavy fires, heavy damage CA Cornwall, Shell hits 1 CL Kenya, Shell hits 1 CL Newcastle, Shell hits 1 DD Anthony DD Monssen, Shell hits 1 DD Carmick DD Redoubt DD Roebuck, Shell hits 3, on fire DMS Wasmuth, Shell hits 5, and is sunk Same results as before. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on TF, near Phuket at 48,69 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Raid detected at 74 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 27 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M5 Zero x 77 A6M5b Zero x 15 A6M5c Zero x 23 Allied aircraft F6F-3 Hellcat x 72 SBD-5 Dauntless x 25 Japanese aircraft losses A6M5 Zero: 4 destroyed A6M5b Zero: 1 destroyed A6M5c Zero: 1 destroyed Allied aircraft losses F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed SBD-5 Dauntless: 13 destroyed Japanese Ships CA Myoko Different strike package - no TBFs. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on TF, near Medan at 46,76 Weather in hex: Clear sky Raid detected at 36 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 13 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-61-Ib Tony x 9 Allied aircraft SBD-5 Dauntless x 33 TBF-1 Avenger x 18 No Japanese losses Allied aircraft losses SBD-5 Dauntless: 5 destroyed TBF-1 Avenger: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged Japanese Ships TK Matsumoto Maru, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage TK Nissan Maru, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk PB Hayakafuku Maru, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk TK Azuma Maru #2, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk TK Moji Maru, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk TK Fujisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire Same strike package, but better results for Ed. Only lost 2 TKs in the first run. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on TF, near Phuket at 48,69 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Raid detected at 30 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 14 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M5 Zero x 44 A6M5b Zero x 12 A6M5c Zero x 17 Allied aircraft TBF-1 Avenger x 15 No Japanese losses Allied aircraft losses TBF-1 Avenger: 8 destroyed This strike against the retiring cruiser SAG did not happen at all in the first run. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Sabang at 43,69 Weather in hex: Severe storms Raid detected at 118 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 30 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M5 Zero x 126 A6M5b Zero x 34 A6M5c Zero x 58 B6N1 Jill x 87 B6N2 Jill x 54 D4Y1 Judy x 114 D4Y3 Judy x 30 Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 9 Allied aircraft Martlet IV x 38 F4F-4 Wildcat x 23 F6F-3 Hellcat x 101 Japanese aircraft losses A6M5 Zero: 2 destroyed B6N1 Jill: 11 destroyed, 15 damaged B6N1 Jill: 7 destroyed by flak B6N2 Jill: 8 destroyed, 9 damaged B6N2 Jill: 4 destroyed by flak D4Y1 Judy: 12 destroyed, 25 damaged D4Y1 Judy: 7 destroyed by flak D4Y3 Judy: 4 destroyed, 7 damaged D4Y3 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak No Allied losses Allied Ships BB Massachusetts CL Cleveland BB Indiana, Bomb hits 2 CV Hornet CV Victorious, Bomb hits 3, on fire CV Wasp, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires BB South Dakota, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1 CV Long Island II, Bomb hits 2, on fire CV Yorktown CV Saratoga CV Enterprise DD Reid CVL Independence DD Pringle CA Chester CL Montpelier DD Downes DD Buchanan Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Wasp Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Victorious Alpha strike - only 503 carrier planes involved this time but still perfect coordination. 12 hits instead of 15 total in the first run, with different distribution and targets - only 3 carriers disabled instead of 4 in the first run [just realize my math was off again when calculating no. of planes per hit in my post farther up - only counted the hits that really count - on CVs]. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Phuket at 46,69 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 29 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M5 Zero x 91 A6M5b Zero x 28 A6M5c Zero x 42 N1K1-J George x 2 Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 14 Allied aircraft F6F-3 Hellcat x 55 SBD-3 Dauntless x 36 SBD-5 Dauntless x 38 TBF-1 Avenger x 60 Japanese aircraft losses A6M5 Zero: 2 destroyed A6M5b Zero: 2 destroyed A6M5c Zero: 3 destroyed Allied aircraft losses F6F-3 Hellcat: 2 destroyed SBD-3 Dauntless: 8 destroyed, 5 damaged SBD-3 Dauntless: 2 destroyed by flak SBD-5 Dauntless: 8 destroyed, 10 damaged TBF-1 Avenger: 21 destroyed, 8 damaged TBF-1 Avenger: 1 destroyed by flak Japanese Ships CV Taiho CV Kaga CV Akagi, Bomb hits 1 CV Hiryu CV Soryu CV Junyo CV Amagi CV Unryu CVL Ryuho CV Shokaku CV Katsuragi CA Tone BB Nagato, Torpedo hits 1 163 Allied planes in the first run, 65 destroyed an no hits. Here 189 Allied planes, 42 destroyed and 2 hits. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Sabang at 43,69 Weather in hex: Severe storms Raid detected at 25 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 8 minutes Japanese aircraft B6N2 Jill x 15 Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 18 Allied aircraft Martlet IV x 37 F4F-4 Wildcat x 22 F6F-3 Hellcat x 96 Japanese aircraft losses B6N2 Jill: 8 destroyed Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 3 destroyed Allied aircraft losses Martlet IV: 1 destroyed This strike did not happen in the first run. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Phuket at 46,69 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Raid detected at 22 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 8 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M5 Zero x 76 A6M5b Zero x 24 A6M5c Zero x 29 N1K1-J George x 2 Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 11 Allied aircraft SBD-5 Dauntless x 25 No Japanese losses Allied aircraft losses SBD-5 Dauntless: 11 destroyed Only one unescorted Allied strike in the afternoon this time. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Aug 29, 43 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack near Phuket at 47,69 Japanese Ships CV Akagi BB Mutsu CA Tone CL Noshiro CLAA Tatsuta DD Amatsukaze DD Niizuki DD Hagikaze DD Arashi DD Nowaki DD Hamakaze Allied Ships SS Apogon SS Apogon launches 6 torpedoes at CV Akagi Heart-stopping moment! This attack did not happen in the first run. Akagi hit by one dud. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on TF, near Trinkat at 44,64 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 20 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M5 Zero x 122 A6M5b Zero x 20 A6M5c Zero x 56 B6N1 Jill x 42 D4Y1 Judy x 56 Allied aircraft FM-1 Wildcat x 21 F6F-3 Hellcat x 31 Japanese aircraft losses A6M5 Zero: 4 destroyed A6M5c Zero: 6 destroyed B6N1 Jill: 2 destroyed, 9 damaged B6N1 Jill: 1 destroyed by flak D4Y1 Judy: 3 destroyed, 4 damaged D4Y1 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak Allied aircraft losses FM-1 Wildcat: 4 destroyed F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed Allied Ships CVE Santee, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires CVE Corregidor CLAA Van Heemskerck LSI(L) Kanimlba CL Achilles DD Ringgold, Bomb hits 1, on fire DD Relentless, Bomb hits 1, on fire DD Arunta CL De Ruyter DD Balch Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVE Santee Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Relentless This strike did not happen at all in the first run. It's actually what I was aiming for, hitting the Amphib forces while avoiding the Allied fleet carriers. Now, since I did not evade the Allied carriers, I would have preferred this strike being directed at the Death Star, not the Amphib. But well. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on TF, near Trinkat at 44,64 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 26 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M5 Zero x 10 A6M5b Zero x 15 B6N2 Jill x 12 D4Y1 Judy x 6 Allied aircraft FM-1 Wildcat x 7 F6F-3 Hellcat x 24 Japanese aircraft losses A6M5 Zero: 4 destroyed A6M5b Zero: 2 destroyed B6N2 Jill: 4 destroyed D4Y1 Judy: 3 destroyed Allied aircraft losses FM-1 Wildcat: 1 destroyed F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed Allied Ships CVE Santee, heavy fires CVE Corregidor Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVE Santee Second strike on Amphib TF - same comment as above. Unlike the first run, no morning attacks of the Allies against my carriers! The main forces exchanged strikes in the afternoon as before, with the Allies once again holding the short end of the stick. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Sabang at 43,69 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Raid detected at 119 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 30 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M5 Zero x 93 A6M5b Zero x 12 A6M5c Zero x 17 B6N1 Jill x 41 B6N2 Jill x 10 D4Y1 Judy x 60 Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 10 Allied aircraft Martlet IV x 35 F4F-4 Wildcat x 21 F6F-3 Hellcat x 76 Japanese aircraft losses A6M5 Zero: 2 destroyed A6M5c Zero: 2 destroyed B6N1 Jill: 18 destroyed, 6 damaged B6N1 Jill: 1 destroyed by flak B6N2 Jill: 6 destroyed B6N2 Jill: 1 destroyed by flak D4Y1 Judy: 21 destroyed, 6 damaged D4Y1 Judy: 9 destroyed by flak No Allied losses Allied Ships CV Hornet CA Wichita BB Massachusetts CV Saratoga CV Enterprise, Torpedo hits 1 BB Indiana CV Yorktown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Sabang at 42,70 Weather in hex: Partial cloud Raid detected at 119 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 30 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M5 Zero x 28 A6M5b Zero x 20 A6M5c Zero x 30 B6N1 Jill x 13 B6N2 Jill x 25 D4Y1 Judy x 38 D4Y3 Judy x 16 Allied aircraft F6F-3 Hellcat x 11 Japanese aircraft losses A6M5b Zero: 1 destroyed A6M5c Zero: 1 destroyed B6N1 Jill: 4 damaged B6N1 Jill: 1 destroyed by flak B6N2 Jill: 9 damaged B6N2 Jill: 1 destroyed by flak D4Y1 Judy: 7 damaged D4Y1 Judy: 4 destroyed by flak D4Y3 Judy: 4 damaged D4Y3 Judy: 4 destroyed by flak Allied aircraft losses F6F-3 Hellcat: 2 destroyed Allied Ships CV Wasp, Bomb hits 1, on fire CV Long Island II, Torpedo hits 1 CVL Independence, Bomb hits 2, on fire CA New Orleans BB South Dakota, Bomb hits 2 CV Victorious, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage CL Montpelier DD Foote DD Laffey, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires CL Honolulu -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Phuket at 46,69 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 29 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M5 Zero x 80 A6M5b Zero x 27 A6M5c Zero x 36 N1K1-J George x 2 Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 17 Allied aircraft F6F-3 Hellcat x 23 SBD-3 Dauntless x 13 SBD-5 Dauntless x 23 TBF-1 Avenger x 15 Japanese aircraft losses A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed A6M5b Zero: 1 destroyed A6M5c Zero: 1 destroyed Allied aircraft losses F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed SBD-3 Dauntless: 5 destroyed SBD-5 Dauntless: 8 destroyed, 2 damaged TBF-1 Avenger: 9 destroyed Japanese Ships CV Katsuragi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Phuket at 46,69 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Raid detected at 72 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 33 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M5 Zero x 71 A6M5b Zero x 19 A6M5c Zero x 34 N1K1-J George x 2 Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 7 Allied aircraft F6F-3 Hellcat x 14 TBF-1 Avenger x 3 Japanese aircraft losses A6M5 Zero: 3 destroyed A6M5b Zero: 1 destroyed A6M5c Zero: 1 destroyed Allied aircraft losses F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed TBF-1 Avenger: 2 destroyed Recap: CV Saratoga - operational CV Hornet - operational CV Yorktown - operational CV Enterprise - most likely still able to perfom flight ops Torpedo hits 1 CVL Independence - probably not able to perfom flight ops Bomb hits 2 on fire CV Long Island II - probably not able to perfom flight ops Bomb hits 2 Torpedo hits 1 on fire CV Wasp - not operational, hope she will be eaten by the flames Bomb hits 3 heavy fires Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Wasp CVE Santee - not operational, but it's a big CVE so might survive Bomb hits 2 heavy fires Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVE Santee CV Victorious - probably toast Bomb hits 6 heavy fires heavy damage Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Victorious BB South Dakota Bomb hits 4 Torpedo hits 1 BB Indiana Bomb hits 2 On my side: CV Akagi Bomb hits 1 BB Nagato Torpedo hits 1 [image]local://upfiles/1313/D3B8653768AF4BE5B125658939278C09.jpg[/image] So, slightly less one-sided and slightly less damaging for the Allies, but still a drubbing. I can live with the results and I hope Ed will accept them as well - with orders and setting revised, there is no arguing with the weather and the dices.

adarbrauner -> RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested (9/29/2017 8:38:27 AM)
La la la lalalalala!

jwolf -> RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested (9/29/2017 12:34:15 PM)
Just 3 days later and that US sub would have had better torpedoes. Well timed! [;)]

GetAssista -> RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested (9/29/2017 2:46:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jwolf Just 3 days later and that US sub would have had better torpedoes. Well timed! [;)] Wow, just wow... And congratulations to LST on the nice carrier victory for Japan! Always good to have those in later 43 and beyond

Bif1961 -> RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested (9/30/2017 12:56:51 AM)
I hope he is now happy that this is the redo and the results are slightly better for him, but still bad, proving the first results weren't a fluke.

LargeSlowTarget -> RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested (9/30/2017 10:12:23 PM)
Redo results accepted, as even with corrected orders the results were apparently meant to be. Ed did not really expect radically different results from the redo, just wanted "clean" orders to remove any doubts and hoped for a miracle. So, the game is back on track. I have revised my initial decision and will not pursue the action with my carriers - I have only about 40 operational bombers left on my 11 flattops, against 3-4 operational carriers - too few to matter. I will retire at full speed to Singers to replenish airframes and torpedoes, and will then rush out again, hoping to catch the cripples before they arrive at safety - I think they will retire to Colombo, since hat is the biggest port in the area and has a repair yard. I have withdrawn a number of land-based DB and TB squadrons in order to free trained pilots and airframes to rebuild the CAGs. Netties and Lily-DBs will try their luck while the carriers are away. Hope I can sink at least one of the enemy carriers, otherwise they will soon be back. Fingers crossed. The other ray of hope - Frank will start production next turn. Turn sent to Ed - stay tuned.

jwolf -> RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested (9/30/2017 11:47:38 PM)
You really think you can catch them before they arrive at Colombo? (Supposing that is where they will go, as you said is most likely.)

adarbrauner -> RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested (10/1/2017 8:03:13 AM)
Actually the results are sensibly inferior than those of the first turn. Idaho can be fond of himself. Or maybe not, because it's not the different altitude of the recon squadron which made the difference, but anyhow, not the end of the world. You're not in an easy situation. Trinkat is taken, and main US Carriers Fleet still operational. You still have Nagato an Hyuga, + a bunch of destroyers with torps at least (all the Cruisers are out of ammo, right?). I'd keep the Carriers, or part of them, on air cover duty and send the BBs on the wake of the "cripples"... We also hope in the renewed Netties strikes; up to you to set their range, recon percentage, and day/night rate; On the good note, we have a good division + brigade and accolites to utterly Destroy on Trinkat, good!

LargeSlowTarget -> RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested (10/2/2017 1:45:20 PM)
Here is my reasoning for the planned follow-up operations: Surface action: The enemy fleet carriers are being covered by at least three modern BBs, plus CAs and CLs. I won't take them on for the slight chance to land a hit on a CV. However, I will take another stab at the amhibs at Trinkat - if they stay around or are slow to leave (with a crippled CVE). The cruiser SAG which has hit Trinkat last turn has retreated to Phuket. Some cruisers have 50-60% gun ammo left and even a few torps. Nearby are two ASW-TFs with three DDs each, they will merge with the cruisers and rush to Trinkat one again. I also pulled-out the surface / AA cover of the carriers with some DDs and sent them to Trinkat, while the carriers and the remaining DDs retire at full speed to Singers. The two cruiser SAGs will retire to Victoria (CAP cover), then sneak down to Georgetown where AKEs and fuel are waiting. Air action: My carriers will reach Singers in one day, they are set to refuel and take replacements. Not sure how many replacements they will take and repair during the second day, but if each squadron takes 12 planes, they are close to their max again (since resized to 15-18 planes). When (or if) I rush out again next turn, I need one day up Malacca Strait back to Sabang (fingers crossed enemy subs have a bad day again) - another day to repair replacement airframes. I will surely be in better shape than right now to pursue action. From Sabang, I can make a sweep across the Bay of Bengal towards Colombo, or wherever Ed is heading (don't we love G3M3s with 26 hex range on naval search?). I won't be able to catch the healthier CVs, unless they stick around. But I may catch a cripple, if engine dmg is great enough. Am counting on a lucky hits by the subs placed in the retreat paths and maybe the Netties at Bangkok which can lug a torp out to 17 hexes and Lily-DBs at Victoria Point which can dive-bomb a few hexes beyond Trinkat. If the seas are empty, I'm playing with the thought of hitting the port at Colombo - I have been hesitant so far to risk my carriers and I doubt Ed will reckon with such a move. With two-day turns, he may not see me coming before it is too late to do something against it (he did that to me several times).

PaxMondo -> RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested (10/3/2017 12:11:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bif1961 I remember when Nagumo raged quit after Midway. My point was in war mistakes are made and it wasn't some fluky game engine glitch that caused the results you achieved. However if you agree to a do over you are a better man than me. I hope the results aren't an Allied victory because you deserve your hard won victory. +1

LargeSlowTarget -> RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested (10/3/2017 3:50:05 PM)
August 30/31 turn received, just had a quick look at the replay during lunch break. The enemy carriers have vanished. No contact by subs or naval search at all. A few Netties impaled themselves on the LBA-CAP over Port Blair trying to hit some TF whose composition is unknown (although I have set search arcs NOT to pass over Port Blair in order NOT to trigger naval attacks - but I forgot to stand-down the Port Blair recon mission...). Only the surface stab at Trinkat has drawn blood: quote: Night Time Surface Combat, near Trinkat at 44,64, Range 6,000 Yards Japanese Ships CA Takao, Shell hits 1 CA Atago CA Mogami CA Mikuma DD Oshio DD Michishio DD Arashio DD Natsugumo DD Yamagumo DD Asagumo DD Arare DD Kasumi Allied Ships DD Nestor AVD San Pablo, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk LSI(L) Kanimlba, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk AMC Hector, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk Allied ground losses: 1009 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 73 destroyed, 20 disabled Engineers: 2 destroyed, 0 disabled Guns lost 19 (19 destroyed, 0 disabled) Vehicles lost 17 (17 destroyed, 0 disabled) Japanese Ships Reported to be Approaching! Allied TF begins to get underway Poor visibility due to Rain with 0% moonlight Maximum visibility in Rain and 0% moonlight: 6,000 yards Range closes to 26,000 yards... Range closes to 23,000 yards... Range closes to 20,000 yards... Range closes to 17,000 yards... Range closes to 14,000 yards... Range closes to 11,000 yards... Range closes to 9,000 yards... Range closes to 8,000 yards... Range closes to 7,000 yards... Range closes to 6,000 yards... CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 6,000 yards CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 6,000 yards AMC Hector sunk by CA Mikuma at 6,000 yards CA Atago engages AVD San Pablo at 6,000 yards CA Takao engages LSI(L) Kanimlba at 6,000 yards DD Nestor engages CA Mikuma at 6,000 yards AVD San Pablo sunk by CA Atago at 6,000 yards LSI(L) Kanimlba sunk by DD Natsugumo at 6,000 yards Range closes to 2,000 yards Range increases to 5,000 yards CA Mikuma engages DD Nestor at 5,000 yards Range increases to 8,000 yards CA Mikuma engages DD Nestor at 8,000 yards DD Natsugumo engages DD Nestor at 8,000 yards Range increases to 9,000 yards CA Mikuma engages DD Nestor at 9,000 yards Range increases to 11,000 yards DD Natsugumo engages DD Nestor at 11,000 yards Range increases to 12,000 yards DD Natsugumo engages DD Nestor at 12,000 yards Allied Task Force Manages to Escape Task forces break off... The carriers at Singers have replaced some losses in the bomber squadrons, but some fighter squadrons have not taken any replacements - must take a closer look. Pondering options - it's probably better to wait for full replacements before trying to hit Colombo.

LargeSlowTarget -> RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested (10/10/2017 7:32:26 AM)
Got the latest turn. This time I'm close to rage-quit this useless time vampire of a game. Launched another deliberate at Chungking. That city is surrounded and cut-off. Yes, it's good defensive terrain with forts build-up to level 6. However, it has been bombed and bombarded almost daily for many months by what I consider is a respectable concentration of air power and arty. The defenders should be out of supplies, punch drunk and demoralized. They have no tanks, they have no AT weapons to speak of, they have little arty, they are outnumbered. Yet they have withstood one deliberate attacks a couple of weeks ago - with attacking forces tailored to match the stacking limit - with heavy losses to the attackers but at least a fort reduction to level 5 to show for. This time I amassed forces totaling 260k hex troop level (limit is 160k). There are lots tanks, there are lots of engineers, there are supplies. All attacking units are 100% prepped, including four Corps HQs in situ and a Command HQ in range. Results: quote: AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Sep 01, 43 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on 97th Chinese Corps, at 76,45 (Chungking) Weather in hex: Overcast Raid spotted at 21 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 5 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 24 No Japanese losses Aircraft Attacking: 24 x Ki-43-IIIa Oscar sweeping at 15000 feet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on 1st New Chinese Corps, at 76,45 (Chungking) Weather in hex: Overcast Raid spotted at 40 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 11 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-21-IIb Sally x 25 Ki-48-IIa Lily x 25 Ki-51 Sonia x 58 Japanese aircraft losses Ki-51 Sonia: 3 damaged Allied ground losses: 20 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Aircraft Attacking: 25 x Ki-48-IIa Lily bombing from 6000 feet Ground Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb 25 x Ki-21-IIb Sally bombing from 6000 feet Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb 15 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet Ground Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb 10 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet Ground Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb 10 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet Ground Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb 6 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet Ground Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb 10 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet Ground Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb 4 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet Ground Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb 3 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet Ground Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb Also attacking 14th Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 1st Chinese Base Force ... Also attacking 1st Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 38th Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 27th Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 48th Chinese Corps ... Also attacking CAF HQ ... Also attacking 32nd Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 14th Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 59th Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 14th Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 1st New Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 14th Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 1st New Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 48th Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 1st New Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 14th Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 1st New Chinese Corps ... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on 59th Chinese Corps, at 76,45 (Chungking) Weather in hex: Overcast Raid spotted at 38 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 11 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-48-Ib Lily x 24 Ki-48-IIa Lily x 81 Japanese aircraft losses Ki-48-IIa Lily: 2 damaged Allied ground losses: 42 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Aircraft Attacking: 28 x Ki-48-IIa Lily bombing from 6000 feet Ground Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb 25 x Ki-48-IIa Lily bombing from 6000 feet Ground Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb 28 x Ki-48-IIa Lily bombing from 6000 feet Ground Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb 24 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 6000 feet Ground Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb Also attacking 96th Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 28th Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 59th Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 96th Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 28th Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 59th Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 96th Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 28th Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 59th Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 96th Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 28th Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 59th Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 96th Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 28th Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 59th Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 96th Chinese Corps ... Also attacking 28th Chinese Corps ... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on 59th Chinese Corps, at 76,45 (Chungking) Weather in hex: Overcast Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 4 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-48-Ib Lily x 23 Japanese aircraft losses Ki-48-Ib Lily: 1 damaged Allied ground losses: 13 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Aircraft Attacking: 23 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 6000 feet Ground Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on 97th Chinese Corps, at 76,45 (Chungking) Weather in hex: Overcast Raid spotted at 30 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 10 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-51 Sonia x 32 Japanese aircraft losses Ki-51 Sonia: 1 damaged Allied ground losses: 13 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Aircraft Attacking: 23 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet Ground Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb 6 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet Ground Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb 3 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet Ground Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb Also attacking China Command ... Also attacking 26th Chinese Corps ... Also attacking Central Reserve ... Also attacking 97th Chinese Corps ... Also attacking China Command ... Also attacking Central Reserve ... Also attacking 97th Chinese Corps ... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on 53rd Chinese Corps, at 76,45 (Chungking) Weather in hex: Overcast Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 5 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-48-IIb Lily x 27 Japanese aircraft losses Ki-48-IIb Lily: 2 damaged Allied ground losses: 9 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Aircraft Attacking: 10 x Ki-48-IIb Lily releasing from 2000' Ground Attack: 2 x 100 kg GP Bomb 14 x Ki-48-IIb Lily releasing from 1000' Ground Attack: 2 x 100 kg GP Bomb 3 x Ki-48-IIb Lily releasing from 3000' Ground Attack: 2 x 100 kg GP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on 53rd Chinese Corps, at 76,45 (Chungking) Weather in hex: Overcast Raid spotted at 30 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 9 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-49-IIa Helen x 25 Japanese aircraft losses Ki-49-IIa Helen: 1 damaged Allied ground losses: 21 casualties reported Squads: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Aircraft Attacking: 25 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 6000 feet Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on Chungking , at 76,45 Weather in hex: Overcast Raid spotted at 9 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 2 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 3 No Japanese losses Aircraft Attacking: 3 x Ki-43-IIIa Oscar sweeping at 15000 feet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on China Command , at 76,45 (Chungking) Weather in hex: Overcast Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 5 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-51 Sonia x 3 Japanese aircraft losses Ki-51 Sonia: 1 damaged Aircraft Attacking: 3 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet Ground Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on 38th Chinese Corps, at 76,45 (Chungking) Weather in hex: Overcast Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 5 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-51 Sonia x 4 No Japanese losses Aircraft Attacking: 4 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet Ground Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ground combat at Chungking (76,45) Japanese Deliberate attack Attacking force 195905 troops, 1869 guns, 1724 vehicles, Assault Value = 5788 Defending force 139877 troops, 509 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 3663 Japanese adjusted assault: 2313 Allied adjusted defense: 9109 Japanese assault odds: 1 to 3 (fort level 5) Combat modifiers Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), experience(-), supply(-) Attacker: Japanese ground losses: 57848 casualties reported Squads: 1197 destroyed, 2485 disabled Non Combat: 356 destroyed, 862 disabled Engineers: 490 destroyed, 206 disabled Guns lost 422 (111 destroyed, 311 disabled) Vehicles lost 553 (170 destroyed, 383 disabled) Units destroyed 3 Allied ground losses: 2938 casualties reported Squads: 21 destroyed, 96 disabled Non Combat: 9 destroyed, 63 disabled Engineers: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled Guns lost 30 (1 destroyed, 29 disabled) Assaulting units: 110th Division 3rd Ind Engineer Regiment 19th Ind Engineer Regiment 15th Tank Regiment 37th Division 3rd Tank Regiment 3rd Tank Division 35th Division 22nd Ind Engineer Regiment 1st Cavalry Brigade 20th Ind Engineer Regiment 41st Division 30th Ind Engineer Regiment 24th Ind Engineer Regiment 23rd Tank Regiment 38th Ind Engineer Regiment 12th Tank Regiment 15th Division 2nd Ind.Mixed Brigade 70th Division 21st Ind Engineer Regiment 26th Division 9th Ind.Mixed Brigade 19th Tank Regiment 13th Division 8th Ind Engineer Regiment 11th Tank Regiment 116th Division 8th Ind.Mixed Brigade 7th Ind.Mixed Brigade 23rd Ind Engineer Regiment 9th Tank Regiment 1st Ind Engineer Regiment 25th Ind Engineer Regiment 7th Ind Engineer Regiment 69th Division 3rd Division 39th Ind Engineer Regiment 2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment 5th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 12th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion 11th Army 51st Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion 1st Army 9th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment 1st Mortar Battalion 4th Mortar Battalion 3rd Hvy.Artillery Regiment 6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 10th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 2nd Ind. Field Artillery Regiment 11th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion Mongol Garrison Army 11th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion 7th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 12th Army 12th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion 13th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion 8th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 4th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion 14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 4th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 13th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion Defending units: 32nd Chinese Corps 28th Chinese Corps 1st New Chinese Corps 89th Chinese Corps 51st Chinese Corps 53rd Chinese Corps 27th Chinese Corps 96th Chinese Corps 26th Chinese Corps 97th Chinese Corps 14th Chinese Corps 38th Chinese Corps 1st Chinese Corps 59th Chinese Corps 48th Chinese Corps 34th Separate Brigade Central Reserve 39th Group Army 49th AA Regiment 41st AA Regiment 16th Construction Regiment 4th Heavy Mortar Regiment 18th Artillery Regiment China Command 12th Construction Regiment CAF HQ 17th Group Army 31st Group Army 32nd Group Army 1st Chinese Base Force -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No combat modifiers for my leaders, experience, supplies, no HQ bonus although 5 HQs present. Not even a f***ing forts reduction this time. I'm torn between rage and despair. Maybe I should just abandon the siege of Chungking, abandon China, abandon the SRA the the POA, and hole-up in the Home Islands and wait for the Allied bombers to flatten the economy. Boy, am I depressed...

GetAssista -> RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested (10/10/2017 11:22:45 AM)
Ouch.. Apart from unfortunate dierolls it looks like Chinese are not fully out of supply yet judgung by their AV. What's with CK industry? Are there any indications that supply is flown in? There is also not that many corps inside, so milder stacking penalties. I'd suggest kill more Chinese outside so that revival ramps up those penalties. In principle you can let CK live (in hunger) and rack up VPs this way, instead of capturing it and letting all those China squads happily rest offmap waiting for Allies to return. Would be optimal with hemming in all the other Chinese on the map into CK (by killing them). What kind of disruption do your LCUs carry into battle with the current overstacking?

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