RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview (Full Version)

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E -> RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview (6/10/2016 3:51:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: battlegroundvehicles
I have been playing Grigsby's games since Bomb Alley/War in the South Pacific from SSI.

Yes! (Real wargamers do not require eye candy!)


[image]local://upfiles/26541/1EAF5BE9BCD844B0A18893033C0DA2E8.gif[/image]



Rising-Sun -> RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview (6/10/2016 9:12:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Webizen

When you attack an enemy you can use battle plans to do so (draw a line where you wish them to advance and they will attempt to fight their way there). If you so choose you can also order individual divisions. You can also set a drop back line and your army will retreat to it and defend. View some of the excellent YouTube videos to get a feel for the game.

There is a settings where you can set nations to more or less stay closer to how things played out historically but that is not a guarantee that things will go completely historical.

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

When you choose a historical battle plan do you still have to give the units orders? Or do they then follow the battle plan?




Yeah it is not completely historical at all. If I was playing as Japan in 1936 scenario, they lefted out few ships, included the Ashigara heavy cruiser, some destroyers and submarines. The ground forces seem about right, but the Russia not suppose to have any tanks near the Manchuria's border til late 1940's. The Chinese forces are three times more than Japanese forces and dunno how you can pull this off as playing Japanese. The game is alright, not impress with it. Infact I like Hearts of Iron II "The Darkest Hours" much better.



sIg3b -> RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview (6/10/2016 5:49:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: E


quote:

ORIGINAL: battlegroundvehicles
I have been playing Grigsby's games since Bomb Alley/War in the South Pacific from SSI.

Yes! (Real wargamers do not require eye candy!)


[image]local://upfiles/26541/1EAF5BE9BCD844B0A18893033C0DA2E8.gif[/image]


At least in these old games you had a good overview of what´s going on. [:)]

Many newer games simply ignore the need for a strategic overview map. This is even true for the Steel Panthers series.

Max zoom out =NOT strategic overwiew. Corner minimap =NOT strategic overview. [:-]



mavraamides -> RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview (6/15/2016 10:51:22 PM)

Sometimes I'm not sure what it means to be a 'kiddy' game.

I play mostly WITE/WITW and the CC series and find them fun, realistic and challenging. OTOH, my youngest son, 14, can run circles around me in EU4 and make me look like a total newb. He can take some backwater province and conquer half of Europe while I'm still struggling to hold on to my starting territory.

I think sometimes it's more about the type of game and how your brain works. I feel that games like the WITX series allow you to see most of what matters at any given time. And you feel like you can make educated guesses about what will happen if you do 'X' because the combat and movement feels realistic and historic.

With Paradox games I always feel kind of lost and not sure what I should be focusing on. Too many moving parts for me I think.

But that's probably more of a statement about my own shortcomings as a gamer than it is about their games.



Rosseau -> RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview (6/16/2016 3:07:20 AM)

No, it's a very good point, imo. I really don't "get" CK2 but love the interface design. Maybe that's half the challenge. HOI3 with Black Ice I "get" and is my favorite. HOI4 reminds me a lot of the Supreme Ruler series. I do not play it as a historical game; more as a WWII test tube of what if's...



wodin -> RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview (6/16/2016 3:26:32 AM)

You need ot look at CK2 as a story telling program where you have a bit part..I think many feel lost as there is no sepcific objective to the game and you feel like you must be doing something all the time. HOI though I don't get on with at all.



aaatoysandmore -> RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview (6/16/2016 5:08:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

You need ot look at CK2 as a story telling program where you have a bit part..I think many feel lost as there is no sepcific objective to the game and you feel like you must be doing something all the time. HOI though I don't get on with at all.


Agreed.[:)]



Karri -> RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview (6/16/2016 8:41:20 AM)

HoI 4 is the best grand strategy I've played in ages, and best one out of the series so far. It doesn't even suffer from the chronic problems that most Paradox releases do. That said it does need a lot of balancing and work on the AI still, so patching is required. Say what you want of Paradox and eye cnady but the interface they have designed and perfect over the years is light years ahead of the competition.



Rising-Sun -> RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview (6/16/2016 9:07:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Karri

HoI 4 is the best grand strategy I've played in ages, and best one out of the series so far. It doesn't even suffer from the chronic problems that most Paradox releases do. That said it does need a lot of balancing and work on the AI still, so patching is required. Say what you want of Paradox and eye cnady but the interface they have designed and perfect over the years is light years ahead of the competition.


I wouldn't say the best grand strategy, but they did a great job on the artworks though.

Been modding this myself, trying to get it more accurate and setup right. They didn't put airfields on Guam, Wake or Midway Islands.

When war break out, if you where playing Japan, the Chineses would throw just about all their divisions at the front door. Not protection the ports or Victory Points.

My work is coming around good, but there so much to do if I have to do the whole world lol.



Karri -> RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview (6/16/2016 12:51:00 PM)

Well, the modding community is gonna pick it up in no time, which I hope will improve things. The air war needs a lot of work still as well, and the AI doesn't really seem to be building much of anything(my medium tanks can roam free as they please). I would really love WitE2 to pick up the production system, a very well balanced abstraction.



Rising-Sun -> RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview (6/16/2016 12:58:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Karri

Well, the modding community is gonna pick it up in no time, which I hope will improve things. The air war needs a lot of work still as well, and the AI doesn't really seem to be building much of anything(my medium tanks can roam free as they please). I would really love WitE2 to pick up the production system, a very well balanced abstraction.


I heard air war is kinda fishy too, didn't see it myself yet. I would love to see WitP2, if they ever going to get into that.



Rosseau -> RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview (6/17/2016 8:16:20 PM)

The air-war UI in HOIV can be confusing. But it is worth the $30 I paid, although they will kill me on DLCs I am sure [;)]

Wodin, I do see where you are coming from though. Command OPs 2 is so much smoother and the scale is perfect.



jamus34 -> RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview (6/18/2016 4:19:45 AM)

I picked it up and I'm liking it so far for the most part.

It is easily the first HOI game I've been able to grab and go without extensive Youtube watching.

That said the lack of a manual / incomplete Wiki pages make it tough to understand some of the nuances. Trade for example...I understood the whole export / import and even why they use CF's as the commodity. What I did not understand until someone else helped me out was just because you have raw material set up for export (based on trade laws) does not mean you are currently trading.

I also have no idea if I'm doing air warfare correctly. I loaded up a bunch of planes at the closest airbase. Set the region they are responsible for and then set teh mission parameters. Problem is I'm not sure if it's actually working. I'd like to see a little more detail when you hover (maybe showing total # or sorties run or something).

It's by no means a historical WW2 game. In my mind this is the closest Paradox has gotten to creating a Vicky 2 sequel / extension...and that's fine by me.



Alchenar -> RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview (6/18/2016 5:00:22 PM)

Three moves ahead did a decent podcast: https://www.idlethumbs.net/3ma/episodes/hearts-of-iron-iv

As far as the air war goes - build as many fighters as you can and prioritise that over everything else. It's a classic Paradox 'clash of deathstacks' problem at the moment, they're working on it with the next patch and presumably are going to try and change that.

As far as whether it's a 'historical' game, I don't think that argument really goes anywhere. Literally any wargame stops being historical the moment the player touches a button and diverges from history, and the larger the scope of the game the more pronounced that effect is. To my mind the real test of whether a wargame is doing history 'right' is whether it lets the players diverge from history in interesting ways and get plausible results, and HOI4 does that better than anything else out there at the moment.




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