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Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> (2/25/2003 8:59:46 PM)

I dunno maybe I AM smart. I don't say that as an elitist (you can call me one if it makes you feel good though).

I have only used a manual for 2 computer games in my life (enough to justify having the manual), and only because I was able to (ie if the manual wasn't there, I would not have fretted).

Heroes of Might and Magic to compare creature values and a few interface tips. And Civilization to see if I was missing some useful detail towards being more efficient.

I remember looking at the Operational Art of War manual on the throne and reflecting "this book sure has a lot of reference notes that have nothing to do with playing the game". But I was only reading it because it had lots of technical trivia.

I never played it, but I have the manual for the very first M1 Tank Platoon game (it came on 5.25 disks, so that tells you how far back it is). It is likely the best example of manual over kill. Massive book, I wonder what it did to the cost of the game back then.

Which makes me ponder. Are manuals even really needed any more?
Most of the games that had flashy manuals that I recall, hark from days when computer games lacked all the spit and polish of today's better interfaces.

I remember my first encounter with Steel Panthers. My first thought was "I wonder what the buttons do?". So I sat down and started clicking on them. What is nice, is holding the cursor over a button gets a bubble that tells you.
To date I have only really encountered two situations where the manual might have been needed. How to load a vehicle/put more than one unit in hex with another, and setting up waypoints.

Perhaps those that like fussing with the game might require use of the manual. But I have yet to ever edit anything, so I have not been there.

I get a game these days, and yes the manual is nice. Gives me something to look at on the throne as I ponder my new purchase. I can't say I am reading it because the game needs it. No it just gives me something to look at on the throne eh.

Is that enough reason to add the expense of a computer game though I wonder?

I like the new small boxes. I like how the computer industry is reducing on what is not essential. I like seeing nice colourful pictures on the boxes too.
I only like seeing a retail box though for one reason. To me retail box = current or original content product.
I am usually reluctant to get excited over someones retread software. Not that I have yet to have trouble with anything.

I do not mind if the world goes entirely game console predominantly. I do not think the future of wargaming is entirely tied to being sold in retail stores anyway.

Today's task, find out how to comfortably arrange to get the computer version of Columbia Games East Front (the game with wooden blocks originally eh, not the other game same name from Talonsoft).

They sell it as a downloaded game purchased and sent to my web browser.
I tried the demo of it yesterday.

http://www.columbiagames.com/Products/Wargames/index.html

It looks like the original enough. The price is ok (40 bucks Canadian). I am just unsure if I like the download to my web browser idea. I don't even know if my web browser will do that sort of thing.

I have stated misgivings about this manner of sales in the past as well. Will I be able to burn it to cd for instance? If not they don't have a sale that's for sure (I will be inquiring there of course).



Frank W. -> (2/27/2003 3:08:27 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Paul Wykes
[B]I have fond memories of Harpoon.

Playing it for many a long hour on my humble Amiga, waiting several minutes for the screen to update.

I wait with baited breath to see how this latest incarnation turns out. [/B][/QUOTE]

yeaahh i remember, too.

that were times :)



SwampYankee68 -> (2/27/2003 6:44:22 AM)

I spent HOURS playing on my screaming fast 386-SX 16Mhz gateway back in 1991. Prosecuting submarines and organizing airstrikes was the best. I enjoyed the scenarios in the gulf the most, but some of the "Red Storm Rising" stuff was cool.

Along those lines I'd LOVE to see a game that put you in charge of a modern Task Force's ASW forces, or a ASW helo sim. Too niche, I guess, though, huh?



Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> (2/27/2003 8:40:31 AM)

From the talk I am uncertain.

What would people say was SSI's best area of game setting. Naval, Land or (I am reaching air) based games.

I have no long list of titles to offer here folks so I am in a vacumn on this one.

Back in 386 days (I had an IBM PS1 as my first computer), I made as my first computer wargame purchase Patton Strikes Back (not SSI though).
I had some other 1990 era games (most were uninspiring though).

My knowledge of computer wargames gets kinda vague back further than 95.



SwampYankee68 -> (2/27/2003 2:01:49 PM)

Naw, SSI goes back well into the 80's. I became aware of them when they published some games for the Commodore-64 and early PC's called "Clash of Superpowers" or "When Superpowers Collide", something like that. They were a series of NATO Vs Warsaw Pact games set in Germany, Finland, etc. Kampgruffe was a big hit in the mid to late 80's, WWII East front, manuever elements of I THINK Platoons. They follwed up with a West front varient and then the famous "Mech Brigade". Another favorite was "Computer Ambush", in which you guided a squad of individual soldiers through a number of missions. They were quite prolific and the list of games they came out with would be long indeed. Most were WWI, some others, but all were well thought out and showed a love of wargaming. Most until the 90's were land combat. In the 90s they came out with some very good naval combat games. In the 90's they got the rights to AD&D and put out the famous "Gold Box" D&D games which were exceptional for their time. SSI also produced some fun strategy games, most notably "Colonial Conquest", a great Risk type knock-off, and "Six Gun Shootout", a western themed individual strategy games with scenarios from some great westerns such as the Magnificent 7 and the Good, Bad, and Ugly" When they got bought by another company (I can't remember if it was UBI or someone else at first" they died a horrible, lingering death unworthy of such a great company. I'm glad to hear they are coming back, but I can only hope they are up to their history.



Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> (2/27/2003 8:25:25 PM)

Sounds almost like some warped twisted kind of trend eh.

D&D began rolegaming essentially speaking.
TSR standing for Tactical Studies Rules is often lost on young gamers.
I can still remember being quite overwhelmed the first time I saw the DM's guide. I recall wondering if I could ever really master such a gaming experience.

And Dragon magazine. I recall how each issue was a gold mine of news and advice.

Avalon Hill was solid wargaming once upon a time.
It only had to have the words "a bookcase game" on the box and I got goosebumps.
I took it for granted that AH games were the pinnacle of wargaming.

The General, a magazine I got quite moody over if I missed an issue. I was certain I would find a way to lament missing valuable game articles eventually.
I often just assumed I would eventually own the relevant game, and therefore, not owning the game in an article was just momentary.

D&D gave us rolegaming, now its just a game.
Dragon gave us so much, now the magazine is so diluted with trendy garbage I don't want it even for free.
AH is now just a logo and often means nothing.
I don't recall seeing an issue of the General on sale in years.

There was also SPI and Victory Games and GDW all logos that meant something once.

Rolegaming today seems to be nothing but a term "d20 system".
So many rushed ideas, and well they are all just cloning D&D to the point of lunacy. Some periodicals are well done. But then the price tags are also incredible.

Wargaming isn't dead inspite of fears to the contrary. Board games are still being made, although only the really inspired companies are going to get anywhere. Software wargaming appears to be realising the same things board gaming had to learn. The market is small, and nothing is going to change that.

A rolegamer and a wargamer share one trait that will always limit us. We are not jocks, nor the sort that hang around on the street. We are not quite geeks, not quite nerds, but we are also reasonably rare as a personality type.

I am glad to see the SSI title re appear. I am unsure if it means anything.
It meant nothing to see the TSR logo re surface.
The AH logo has not meant anything to the market for some time.

I think the period of time between 1960 and 1990 was unique.
It will likely remain that way.

Today we have new names, new logos.

TSR, AH, SPI, they had their day, that day is gone. I am not going to get goofy over the SSI logo for the same reason.

For me, the terms I follow now are Matrix, Battlefront, 3DO (I am a Heroes fan), MMP and Columbia Games, as well as possibly Avalanche Press.
These are the names of the here and now for me.

I don't know where those names will be in 20 years, but lets hope they are not afflicted with the same trend.



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