Submarine Depth?

Submarine Depth? (Full Version)

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LoBlo -> Submarine Depth? (10/9/2014 2:18:11 AM)
I trying to understand if there is any advantage to having a submarine run deeper than just "under the layer". If a sub is deeper than that, are there any advantages as far as detection or sensors? In RL sound-velocity profiles of the various environments has the impact on optimal depths, but I'm not sure if Command goes that far as to try to model that type of complexity. Any thoughts? lb

Gandalf -> RE: Submarine Depth? (10/9/2014 3:21:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LoBlo I trying to understand if there is any advantage to having a submarine run deeper than just "under the layer". If a sub is deeper than that, are there any advantages as far as detection or sensors? In RL sound-velocity profiles of the various environments has the impact on optimal depths, but I'm not sure if Command goes that far as to try to model that type of complexity. Any thoughts? lb From pg 134 of the manual: quote: The Great Deep: The DSC still has some influence here but not as great. Cavitation sets in only if you go flat-out (modern subs do not cavitate at all here, even at flank). If the sea bottom is shallower than the sub’s rated depth, the sub can “fly nap of the earth” or even go belly-up (sit on the bottom) and get the benefit of greatly reduced active sonar echo. This is generally the ideal depth for “transit” mode, when the emphasis is on moving from A to B rather than hunting, or for stationary ambush. Hope this helps! [:)]

Gunner98 -> RE: Submarine Depth? (10/9/2014 10:34:25 AM)
Not at all sure, but I think the game models this. At least it seems real. My tactics are: Deep as possible - for fast transit, using a NATO Nuc your fairly safe, SSKs will use up battery power pretty quickly though Under the layer - trolling at 5-12Knts looking for other subs or if I'm confident there are no subs in the area - medium speed transits up to about 20Knts (risky) Over the layer - never above 8-10 knts hunting for surface contacts Shallow - as little as possible, usually to accomplish a mission goal or if I have a good SSK. Some of the older SSGNs need to be here to launch. Periscope - rarely, usually to pick up ESM contacts only Surface - sunbathing and water-skiing are the only reason to be here[:D] Well and some older SSGNs B

Asterix909 -> RE: Submarine Depth? (10/9/2014 12:58:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gunner98 Not at all sure, but I think the game models this. At least it seems real. My tactics are: Deep as possible - for fast transit, using a NATO Nuc your fairly safe, SSKs will use up battery power pretty quickly though Under the layer - trolling at 5-12Knts looking for other subs or if I'm confident there are no subs in the area - medium speed transits up to about 20Knts (risky) Over the layer - never above 8-10 knts hunting for surface contacts Shallow - as little as possible, usually to accomplish a mission goal or if I have a good SSK. Some of the older SSGNs need to be here to launch. Periscope - rarely, usually to pick up ESM contacts only Surface - sunbathing and water-skiing are the only reason to be here[:D] Well and some older SSGNs B Thanks for that! My experience with subs is limited mostly to Silent Hunter and ... thats it really! In those games it is surface 95%, periscope 4%, and DEEP 1% of deployment time, it seems. So to translate that to a modern sub is pretty suicidal. I've been keeping my subs at just above the layer most of the time but I've been going fast there, too. SHould I be going deep for travel even if I am not cavitating? And how about that moment you know you are found out; let's say I know because a torpedo is detected in the water[sm=innocent0009.gif]. Is the goal to change layer (up OR down) and flee or always go deep and flee or...? And one last scenario, after deploying my own torpedo into the water, should I go slow and listen (for return fire and effect - after changing bearing, surely) or immediately change bearing and flee fast (deep? change layer?)? thanks.

Gunner98 -> RE: Submarine Depth? (10/9/2014 7:15:59 PM)
quote: Thanks for that! My experience with subs is limited mostly to Silent Hunter and ... thats it really! In those games it is surface 95%, periscope 4%, and DEEP 1% of deployment time, it seems. So to translate that to a modern sub is pretty suicidal. Well I don't claim to be an expert, just been playing since release last year and Harpoon before that. Best to experiment. Also different subs vs. different ASW systems should steer your tactics a bit. quote: I've been keeping my subs at just above the layer most of the time but I've been going fast there, too. SHould I be going deep for travel even if I am not cavitating? I would. Especially if the relative sub vs ASW generation is equal or in the other guy's favour. If you’re in a Sea wolf, Virginia, Astute or Type 210+ vs late cold war era ASW, you’re probably fine - but why take the chance. quote: And how about that moment you know you are found out; let's say I know because a torpedo is detected in the water. Is the goal to change layer (up OR down) and flee or always go deep and flee or...? Yes. The sub skipper may already be going into defensive mode but I would as a minimum cross the layer. quote: And one last scenario, after deploying my own torpedo into the water, should I go slow and listen (for return fire and effect - after changing bearing, surely) or immediately change bearing and flee fast (deep? change layer?)? That depends. One tactic I use is to fire the Torp across the layer. I don't go evasive unless it’s obvious the cat is out of the bag, but I will often re-cross the layer to watch the action. So in the case of a surface target: - probably above the layer to acquire, I drop below the layer and launch, move off direction a bit and slip above the layer to watch the reaction. If all hell is breaking loose, I drop to the bottom and wait, if not I skulk around and watch, you don't know what other targets might pop up at high speed when they do detect the torp.[:D] B

scottb613 -> RE: Submarine Depth? (10/9/2014 7:26:59 PM)
Hi Folks, Just a couple real world observations - modern nuke boats can't sit on the bottom - the reactor needs seawater to keep it cool - and the intakes are on the bottom... Sucking dirt and debris through these ports is not a good idea... Also modern boats are considerably bigger than WWII boats so you would have a great deal more weight and inertia to cause damage upon contact with the bottom... If you're launching weapons - you want to clear "datum" as rapidly as practical... A typical submarines response to being shot at is a "snapshot" right back down the bearing the torpedo is detected on... Even if they don't have a good firing solution - it gives the boat who shot first something to think about... Regards, Scott

StellarRat -> RE: Submarine Depth? (10/9/2014 10:23:05 PM)
I don't know if this is modeled, but going super deep will also reduce the effective blast radius from non-direct explosions (old style depth-charges) and might put you too deep for SOME weapons to reach you or function correctly.

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