RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log

RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log (Full Version)

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BletchleyGeek -> RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log (10/17/2014 9:38:12 AM)
This is an amazing achievement. My most sincere congratulations and thanks to all the team!

MechFO -> RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log (10/17/2014 11:27:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Denniss To answer some questions/observations: If you see devices or upgrades changed to a number without associated name it indicates a new device/element. Symbol changed to 0 = has it's own symbol now Thanks for clearing that up. Further I noted: a missing super heavy classification for a 240mm, missing super heavy classification the the German and Axis minor 210mm in general (feature description says 210mm and above) did the railway guns get their SH classification, I don't see any listed? the 305mm and 355mm seem to be treated as SP artillery for fuel use but were towed? quite a few artillery symbol changes don't much sense to me, are these WAD? f.e. [111] 122mm Howitzer symbol changed from [74] Infantry Gun to [109] 75mm Field Gun [112] 150mm Howitzer symbol changed from [108] 150mm Field Gun to [109] 75mm Field Gun [328] 149mm Howitzer symbol changed from [319] 82mm Mortar to [323] 75mm Mountain Gun [788] 82mm Mortar symbol changed from [784] 76mm Infantry Gun to [729] 107mm Mortar Some Axis minor AT guns get an accuracy nerf. Is this to simulate training etc. above and beyond the experience modifier? What does the "effect" do? Destruction chance upon a hit? The what are the Ground and Air ratings for? Last but not least, now that Artillery build % can be decreased, and the Germans should suffer from it, how about restoring the 42-43 Division to their paper Artillery TOE, so that the player benefits from avoiding a Winter offensive and Stalingrad redux.

pzgndr -> RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log (10/17/2014 12:37:55 PM)
The manual is also being updated as I understand. Could the Tutorial Manual also get a rewrite? There have been a lot of changes in the past several years and more with this new patch, plus there are some new strategy perspectives and player tips that could be added. It would be helpful for some of us trying to get back into the game again, as well as any new players getting started.

Peltonx -> RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log (10/17/2014 4:06:33 PM)
National Morale and morale in general is not a hard wired stat. Just because NM is 60 does not mean a units morale is 60. GHC morale dropping over time does not mean most of the GHC morale will be 60 in Nov 44 ect. With good leaders a units morale can easly stay 10 pts above whatever the NM is for that time frame. Its about winning. I have seen GHC players NM average per units in the low 60's high 50's by mid 44 and it was stuck at 70. And we have all seen SHC army's stuck around 50 in late 44. +/- 10 NM is based on winning and losing(player skill or exploits like 1v1=2v1) which is far more then a setting.

smokindave34 -> RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log (10/17/2014 8:14:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: morvael quote: ORIGINAL: hfarrish Love the changes related to forts and the limits on fort construction - hopefully the death of WW1. Increased reserve activations (particularly on offense) should also be huge. On National Morale - what are the existing parameters for the Soviets? Also...Germans really were stuck at 70 for the entire game in the current version? That decline to 55 will be huge. Especially with fort game setting below 100... Things start to get interesting. But where you build up to level 3 (LG?), such position will be protected from panzers due to dense terrain bonus, and infantry will have to do the job. Yes, Germany should be severely weakened at the end of the war. The game was balanced with the bug existing, thus the balance will now change considerably (I'd say 41 is slightly pro-Axis now, 42 much more pro-Axis, but then things go downhill for them fast). That's why this must be a public beta for a long time - we need more people playing to discover new balance, it was impossible to do it in private development group only. Or you would see the patch in 2016. Sudden death scenarios may be especially dangerous now, so I suggest normal GC is safer choice. New Soviet morale is listed somewhere in the log. Good thing is - anyone can mod this now to some extent (per-country per-year) in scenario parameters. I have two games in progress as axis in 1943, if I or my opponents update to 1.08 will I see the negative effects on the axis (things going down hill fast). I'm afraid if I update I'll see the negative consequences without having seen the advantages the axis receives in '41/42.

hfarrish -> RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log (10/17/2014 10:24:12 PM)
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Denniss -> RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log (10/17/2014 10:24:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MechFO Further I noted: a missing super heavy classification for a 240mm, missing super heavy classification the the German and Axis minor 210mm in general (feature description says 210mm and above) did the railway guns get their SH classification, I don't see any listed? the 305mm and 355mm seem to be treated as SP artillery for fuel use but were towed? quite a few artillery symbol changes don't much sense to me, are these WAD? f.e. [111] 122mm Howitzer symbol changed from [74] Infantry Gun to [109] 75mm Field Gun [112] 150mm Howitzer symbol changed from [108] 150mm Field Gun to [109] 75mm Field Gun [328] 149mm Howitzer symbol changed from [319] 82mm Mortar to [323] 75mm Mountain Gun [788] 82mm Mortar symbol changed from [784] 76mm Infantry Gun to [729] 107mm Mortar Some Axis minor AT guns get an accuracy nerf. Is this to simulate training etc. above and beyond the experience modifier? What does the "effect" do? Destruction chance upon a hit? The what are the Ground and Air ratings for? Last but not least, now that Artillery build % can be decreased, and the Germans should suffer from it, how about restoring the 42-43 Division to their paper Artillery TOE, so that the player benefits from avoiding a Winter offensive and Stalingrad redux. The super-heavy cut is at ~250+mm, they have very high fuel use because they are supposed to be transported in parts/on multiple trailers. All guns are changed to a single symbol per class and nation. There should not be an accuracy nerv for Axis minor guns, some had stats not matching their german counterpart or some new historical data required a data change for these guns. Don't know exactly how effect is used during Flak but I assume it's related to blast effect and mangled with other antiair values.

MechFO -> RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log (10/17/2014 11:10:28 PM)
Thanks for clearing that up. quote: ORIGINAL: Denniss quote: ORIGINAL: MechFO The super-heavy cut is at ~250+mm, Doesn't make sense to me since already the 240mm sized ones were considered specialized very heavy artillery. You also see it with gun and shell weights. Either way please change the final patch notes accordingly, otherwise this is bound to cause confusion.

Denniss -> RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log (10/17/2014 11:39:56 PM)
SH vs H depends on more than just caliber, I wouldn't call a 240mm howitzer with short range a SH gun, a 203mm gun with long barrel (like on heavy cruisers) could be considered SH due to combination of rather big calibler + long range. But anyway the cut-off area is rather fluid and we had to made a separation somewhere so we don't mix the huge guns with rather smallish guns.

Peltonx -> RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log (10/18/2014 2:56:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hfarrish quote: ORIGINAL: smokindave34 quote: ORIGINAL: morvael quote: ORIGINAL: hfarrish Love the changes related to forts and the limits on fort construction - hopefully the death of WW1. Increased reserve activations (particularly on offense) should also be huge. On National Morale - what are the existing parameters for the Soviets? Also...Germans really were stuck at 70 for the entire game in the current version? That decline to 55 will be huge. Especially with fort game setting below 100... Things start to get interesting. But where you build up to level 3 (LG?), such position will be protected from panzers due to dense terrain bonus, and infantry will have to do the job. Yes, Germany should be severely weakened at the end of the war. The game was balanced with the bug existing, thus the balance will now change considerably (I'd say 41 is slightly pro-Axis now, 42 much more pro-Axis, but then things go downhill for them fast). That's why this must be a public beta for a long time - we need more people playing to discover new balance, it was impossible to do it in private development group only. Or you would see the patch in 2016. Sudden death scenarios may be especially dangerous now, so I suggest normal GC is safer choice. New Soviet morale is listed somewhere in the log. Good thing is - anyone can mod this now to some extent (per-country per-year) in scenario parameters. I have two games in progress as axis in 1943, if I or my opponents update to 1.08 will I see the negative effects on the axis (things going down hill fast). I'm afraid if I update I'll see the negative consequences without having seen the advantages the axis receives in '41/42. As fun as that might be for me, I think I read that the two versions don't work together - not sure what this implies for existing games. quote: Doesn't make sense to me since already the 240mm sized ones were considered specialized very heavy artillery. You also see it with gun and shell weights. Either way please change the final patch notes accordingly, otherwise this is bound to cause confusion. This has always been true Finish any on going games under the old version. Patching in .8 is not going to fix any damage done by older versions that caused the collapse of the german OOB caused by swapping errors ALL games before .15 were preprogramed to cause the collapse of GHC in 44 because of errors. .8 is probably as close to perfect as we will get - which means players skills determine out come not errors bugs and exploits

Commanderski -> RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log (10/18/2014 3:25:17 PM)
quote: .8 is probably as close to perfect as we will get - which means players skills determine out come not errors bugs and exploits Coming from Pelton that's a fantastic review...[:)] No offense meant.

MechFO -> RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log (10/18/2014 4:52:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Denniss SH vs H depends on more than just caliber, I wouldn't call a 240mm howitzer with short range a SH gun, a 203mm gun with long barrel (like on heavy cruisers) could be considered SH due to combination of rather big calibler + long range. But anyway the cut-off area is rather fluid and we had to made a separation somewhere so we don't mix the huge guns with rather smallish guns. I'll stop pestering you after this. The magic triangle of artillery is range, shell weight and gun weight. Choose two at expense of the third, with logistics being the often ignored fourth dimension which ends up biting everybody in the backside. The extra fortification effect(too low IMO) and to a lesser extent the logistics multiplier (arguably too low) is dependent on shell weight. A 300kg shell is a 300 kg shell after all, whether it is delivered at 10 or at 30 km and will be several orders of magnitudes more effective on any dug in enemy or fortification than the 40-45 kg shells of something in the 150mm range. Arguably the big steps were going from 15kg (105) to 40-45kg (150) to 110-150 kg (210-240) -> really super heavy stuff Trying to filter out the really massive guns doesn't make sense since range is abstracted away and irrelevant in the WITE context. One of the guns which was given the SH classification was actually very light weight, only 40 tons or so, has the usual low range of weapons in its class but IMO definitely deserves the SH classification because it did shoot 300kg shells.

GamesaurusRex -> RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log (10/18/2014 8:58:45 PM)
Thanks again to Morvael and company for all the excellent work ! I appreciate and value the fact that 2x3 and Matrix have gone the extra mile to see these improvements made, rather than washing their hands of a "finished product" as some other less scrupulous publishers/developers have done on occasion. As a consumer, this gives me confidence in purchasing your products and places them on the top of my list of recommendations to others. +10 Time to toot your horn ! [sm=character0272.gif]

JamesM -> RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log (10/18/2014 10:19:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex Thanks again to Morvael and company for all the excellent work ! I appreciate and value the fact that 2x3 and Matrix have gone the extra mile to see these improvements made, rather than washing their hands of a "finished product" as some other less scrupulous publishers/developers have done on occasion. As a consumer, this gives me confidence in purchasing your products and places them on the top of my list of recommendations to others. I fully agree!

janh -> RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log (10/19/2014 4:13:59 PM)
Very impressive change list. And some very welcome fixes and new features among them. Only missing a means to suppress ToE changes if pools do not require reducing the elements, or if not desired. Many thanks to everyone involved in doing these changes, and in testing them! Above and beyond all expectations!

Bronze -> RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log (10/19/2014 4:36:32 PM)
I haven't been following this super closely but would love to know if the BOMB AIRFIELD has been changed so that the German does not get slaughtered trying to bomb airfields after the first turn.

morvael -> RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log (10/19/2014 5:05:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: janh Very impressive change list. And some very welcome fixes and new features among them. Only missing a means to suppress ToE changes if pools do not require reducing the elements, or if not desired. Many thanks to everyone involved in doing these changes, and in testing them! Above and beyond all expectations! At least the upgrade from 44 Pz Div to 45 Pz Div was removed.

morvael -> RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log (10/19/2014 5:05:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Von Hindenburg I haven't been following this super closely but would love to know if the BOMB AIRFIELD has been changed so that the German does not get slaughtered trying to bomb airfields after the first turn. Soviet AA is weaker, German AA is stronger. That should help.

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