RE: Sweden hunting submarine (Full Version)

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Casinn -> RE: Sweden hunting submarine (10/20/2014 6:38:25 PM)

Read somewhere that the Dutch sub was in Estonia at the time of photos



bradinggs -> RE: Sweden hunting submarine (10/20/2014 6:48:50 PM)

Yeah, it was already docked at an Estonian port but someone said "oh there could be another one" so I guess the media went with it.



DeltaIV -> RE: Sweden hunting submarine (10/20/2014 11:41:22 PM)

Hello guys,

i can relate to DirtyFred's postings -- namely that he mentioned Ola Tunander.

This author wrote probably most comprehensive study on this matter - The Secret War Against Sweden, mapping the foreign incursions into Swedish territorial waters. The book is excellent and a must if you are interested in this matter. It's very interesting to see how far west went in the struggle to erode Swedish neutrality.

For the rest, it's just safe to say that world's news media is probably working better than Swedish navy, because it seems that they already know much more.



bradinggs -> RE: Sweden hunting submarine (10/21/2014 12:02:48 AM)

Hi DeltaIV, haven't gone through The Secret War Against Sweden yet but hopefully tomorrow, it certainly is interesting.

With the media, I've found that reading the comments from the navy and military seem to be providing the clearest picture. Latest article has a number of them:
The Local, a newspaper in Sweden giving good coverage -> http://www.thelocal.se/20141020/stockholm-archipelago-search-submarin-russian

The military hasn't mentioned Russia and are clear on that, so they could be thinking Western powers but not saying so to keep the peace but probably some diplomatic channels lighting up behind the scenes if that is the case.

Military say they now calling it an "intelligence gathering operation" and not a sub hunt.

Great pictures well all getting though! [:D]



AlmightyTallest -> RE: Sweden hunting submarine (10/21/2014 4:14:16 PM)

If the below report is true, they may have the vessel pinned down.

http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-liveblog-day-246-submarines-gas-deals-and-human-rights/#4680

quote:

Sweden Ready To Use Force Against Suspected Russian Submarine
13:59 (GMT)

After five days of searching fora "foreign vessel" in Swedish waters, the Swedish military is threatening to use weapons, if necessary, to surface the vessel. Since many suspect that the unidentified submerged object could be a Russian submarine, such a statement is certainly a significant escalation in rhetoric.

The Local, an English-language Swedish newspaper, reports:

When asked how the Armed Forces would manage to get the suspected foreign submarine to the surface, Commander Sverker Göranson responded:

"With weapons, if need be."

His comments to the Swedish media came after a nearly two-hour long meeting with Sweden's defence committee behind closed doors.

They also followed reports in the Dagens Nyheter newspaper that there had been more than 100 reported sightings of a suspect vessel from members of the public in the past day or so.


Either way, I'm curious to see how this pans out.



mazex -> RE: Sweden hunting submarine (10/21/2014 10:14:32 PM)

Inspired by the Sub hunt in the Swedish waters that bring back cold war memories I remembered a Beta Scenario I did during the Beta of CMANO... I only think I posted it in the closed dev sub forum.

The settings is a 1991 invasion of southern Sweden by USSR after a fictional coup by the old school generals...

I just uploaded the last version to the scenarios sub forum - It's just a Beta but if you like the setting it may be fun to try:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3721494&mpage=1&key=�



DirtyFred -> RE: Sweden hunting submarine (10/22/2014 3:35:51 PM)

If ... if it is a russian minisub (a prototype?) there should be a mother-uboat in international waters. Same applies for other nations.

btw if the russians want SIGINT data, they send their Tu-95 Bombers with SIGINT gear ... as they have done in 2013. why risk a sub or minisub?


my guess its the successor of NR-1 ... lets call it NR-2.

a good book to read about NR-1:
http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Waters-Insiders-Account-Undercover/dp/0451211618

It was impossibly expensive, extraordinarily dangerous, and as a secret weapon, completely unarmed. For the American military, the state-of-the-art submersible, christened NR-1, would be the most closely guarded-and revolutionary-secret of the Cold War. The pet project of Admiral Hyman Rickover, the father of the nuclear Navy, the 400-ton submarine with a miniature nuclear reactor was designed to dive deeper than any other submarine. But such depths also meant the crew would be cut off from all possible rescue should something go wrong. Now, the full story of the NR-1 is told for the first time through eyewitness accounts by the original crew-including co-author Lee Vyborny-who dared go where no men had gone before.




DirtyFred -> RE: Sweden hunting submarine (10/22/2014 9:51:36 PM)

one fairly interesting analysis:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/10/22/what-submarine-in-sweden/

in relation:
http://www.aco.nato.int/-nato-air-policing-fighters-intercept-russian-aircraft-over-the-baltic-sea.aspx

The aircraft was identified as a Russian IL-20 (intelligence collection aircraft). The Russian IL-20 took off from Kaliningrad and commenced flying over the Baltic Sea towards Denmark. The Russian aircraft was first intercepted by Danish F-16’s and as the IL-20 headed further north it was intercepted by fighters from Sweden. The Russian aircraft headed south again and Portuguese F-16’s were scrambled. At 12:53 p.m. CET the IL-20 approached Estonian airspace from the northeast. The Russian aircraft entered Estonian airspace near the island of Saaremaa for a period of less than one minute, which represented an incursion of about 600 meters into NATO airspace.

Portuguese F-16’s made visual contact with the IL-20 and escorted it until it was further away from NATO airspace. NATO jets assigned to the Baltic Air Policing Mission were available throughout the duration of the Russian flight and the IL-20 was continually tracked using Allied assets on the ground and in the air.

Scrambles and intercepts are standard procedure when an unknown aircraft approaches NATO airspace. However, such flights pose a potential risk to civil aviation given that the Russian military often do not file flight plans, or use their on-board transponders. This means civilian air traffic control cannot detect these aircraft nor ensure there is no interference with civilian air traffic.



DeltaIV -> RE: Sweden hunting submarine (10/24/2014 8:43:18 AM)

Thanks for the link. This is first analysis that makes sense.



safedisk -> RE: Sweden hunting submarine (10/24/2014 9:20:24 AM)

I Agree. There has been a constant parading of bogeymen for the last decade, Al Quaeda, the Taliban, the Russians and finally ISIS.
All can be solved with the same magic formula.
More spending on Weapons.
Russia is right, war is coming.
It might be in one year or ten, but with the constant build up of the capabilities of the worlds armed forces something will happen eventually to kick it all off.

PS. Why does the UK need two 65000 ton aircraft carriers? These things will be very expensive to run/maintain and what is it going to do with them?
Needed for WW3?



CaptCarnage -> RE: Sweden hunting submarine (10/24/2014 12:58:07 PM)

Wow.
That CounterPunch article ends with a prediction: "for the above reasons the Swedish military will soon call off the whole thing and the affair will have served its purpose – precisely by not stating what it was, who it was or why it was. Or if it was."

And 4 hours ago:
The Swedish military has called off its week-long search for a suspected submarine in the sea south of Stockholm, officials say.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29752368



Feltan -> RE: Sweden hunting submarine (10/24/2014 7:06:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: safedisk
I Agree. There has been a constant parading of bogeymen for the last decade, Al Quaeda, the Taliban, the Russians and finally ISIS.
All can be solved with the same magic formula.
More spending on Weapons.
Russia is right, war is coming.
It might be in one year or ten, but with the constant build up of the capabilities of the worlds armed forces something will happen eventually to kick it all off.


I agree, Russia is correct -- war is coming. All we need do is ask Ukraine about it.

Regards,
Feltan



bradinggs -> RE: Sweden hunting submarine (10/24/2014 9:11:06 PM)

Tweeted recently

https://twitter.com/rConflictNews/status/525751528968441856

Sub spotted from a ferry near Malmo.



DeltaIV -> RE: Sweden hunting submarine (10/24/2014 10:32:51 PM)

Well, if i see right after all this alcohol, it's Russian Kilo class, surfaced, in international waters.

[image]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Map_of_%C3%96resund_between_Denmark_and_Sweden.png[/image]

Oresund strait.

It's considered to be international waterway since 1857 by the Copenhagen convetion.

That's the only way how naval unit can get into or out of the Baltic sea, if we don't count Kiel canal, built by Germany to avoid this long trip around the Denmark.



mazex -> RE: Sweden hunting submarine (10/24/2014 11:17:35 PM)

Well - I saw it myself at 11:30 today from my office in Helsingborg that you find on the map above (7:th floor near the harbour)... And got this photo of it (zoomed in smartphone image through a window).

[image]http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b486/mazex_swe/sub_helsingborg_2014-10-25_zps29a2a760.jpg[/image]

But - It may be a dutch Walrus from the Nato Exercise?



mikmykWS -> RE: Sweden hunting submarine (10/24/2014 11:34:49 PM)

Nice view[:)]



bradinggs -> RE: Sweden hunting submarine (10/25/2014 6:52:05 AM)

Very nice view!

Don't you wish these subs just had AIS to make it easier for everyone? [:D]



mazex -> RE: Sweden hunting submarine (10/25/2014 8:16:52 AM)

Yes it's an nice view if you are interested in ships as almost all the naval traffic to and from the Baltic Sea passes right outside my window. Unfortunately the zoom hides the fact that it is a bit further from the sea than the first image may show - and that explains why the image is so blurry :) The image below is the original - scaled down to fit here:

[image]http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b486/mazex_swe/sub_full_zpsa2a75167.jpg[/image]

And yes - that's Denmark in the background. Yesterday it was raining and it was rather bad visibility - a clear day you can see a very large part of Öresund...



bradinggs -> RE: Sweden hunting submarine (10/25/2014 3:58:31 PM)

This could be a really good dark comedy. Anyone seen "Burn after reading" movie? Grab the director that did that and make this into a film. Classic.

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2014/10/24/surprise_that_russian_submarine_in_stockholm_got_away_from_the_swedish_navy?utm_content=buffer00a1f&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer



Broncepulido -> RE: Sweden hunting submarine (10/29/2014 3:47:48 PM)

Great image, thanks mazex.
Casually (researching for the Harpoon HCE/HUCE scenario "Submarines Galore 2014!") a few weeks ago I constated theorically Russia has now any submarine in service in the Baltic Fleet:
http://russian-ships.info/eng/today/
See Baltic Fleet



mazex -> RE: Sweden hunting submarine (10/29/2014 8:35:48 PM)

Found another image from when the Kilo passed my office in Helsingborg last Friday... Quite a bit better than mine ;)

[image]http://www.sydsvenskan.se/Images2/2014/10/24/dasboot.jpg[/image]



mikmykWS -> RE: Sweden hunting submarine (10/29/2014 8:55:49 PM)

Wow that's one of their new 636's right?

Mike



Triode -> RE: Sweden hunting submarine (10/29/2014 9:09:29 PM)

project 636.3
B-261 "Novorossiysk"

went to the Northern Fleet for "Kalibr-PL" testing



mazex -> RE: Sweden hunting submarine (10/29/2014 10:00:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Triode

project 636.3
B-261 "Novorossiysk"

went to the Northern Fleet for "Kalibr-PL" testing


And it was commissioned on the 22:nd of August 2014 so it's pretty "fresh" :)



bradinggs -> RE: Sweden hunting submarine (10/29/2014 10:45:45 PM)

A "Lessons from the Swedish Sub hunt" article.
http://news.usni.org/2014/10/28/lessons-swedens-sub-hunt




Triode -> RE: Sweden hunting submarine (10/29/2014 11:07:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mazex


And it was commissioned on the 22:nd of August 2014 so it's pretty "fresh" :)


Yes "fresh"
still think building project 677 would be better
677 have TASS (636.3 does not) ,all 6 533mm TT can fire UGST and "Kalibr-PL" (instead of only 2 on 636.3 other 4 only TEST-71M and 53-65K),GAK "Lira"(attempt to cram something similar to "Amphora" in diesel submarine) just better than MGK-400EM on 636.3
even if 677 does not have AIP it still better than 636.3
636.3 just twice as cheaper [:(]
still we will see others 677 finished (without AIP) it will be series with 3 ships



mazex -> RE: Sweden hunting submarine (10/31/2014 7:54:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bradinggs

A "Lessons from the Swedish Sub hunt" article.
http://news.usni.org/2014/10/28/lessons-swedens-sub-hunt




Interesting read - thanks for sharing!



LaughingBuccaneer -> What about Russian sub intruders in Ireland ? (11/25/2017 9:11:07 AM)

Hi,

Here's a thought 'what if' the Russian's tried to pull off the same submarine incursion
stunt on the Irish Republic, as they are accused of doing in Swedish waters back in
October 2014 and the 1980's.
Now the Irish Republic has a very interesting coastline, with a number of major towns
and cities along the west coast like Sligo, Donegal and Galway.
The west coast of Ireland which have a number of deep water channels near the coast being
particularly interesting for a Russian sub to 'flaunt itself' with periscopes and conning
towers and then scurry off out to sea when the going gets tough.
Although to tell you the truth - the Irish Naval Service is ( I believe ) sadly
lacking in ASW capabilities with it's present fleet, unlike the Swedish navy and therefore
the Russian's or any other mischievous nation ( Iran or North Korea ? ) keen to embarrass
the west, could run circles round the Irish navy until the Irish government call in
support from a friendly power ( although that could compromise their long standing stance
on neutrality and cause embarrassment to the Irish government )

No doubt the UK would step in and help the Irish Republic, flush out their foreign
sub intruder - bearing in mind their once secret ( now out in the open ) agreement to
call in the RAF to intercept any fast jet intruders into Irish airspace, who don't
respond to radio messages and switch off their transponders.

Although maybe the above agreement, does not include the British carrying out ASW work
for the Irish government in Irish waters ??




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