I'll return to base even if it'll kill me! (Full Version)

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Barleyman -> I'll return to base even if it'll kill me! (11/15/2014 4:31:20 PM)

Yes, well. The plane behavior is maybe somewhat pig-headed in this respect. They will NOT engage bogies closing in and will in fact ignore direct orders to engage unless you unassign them first. Perhaps room there for some fine tuning.. This happens for example if you have "etc when winchester" doctrine on. That usually means the planes have some sidewinders left to use but they'll meekly keep course and get killed.



mikmykWS -> RE: I'll return to base even if it'll kill me! (11/15/2014 5:16:11 PM)

What kind of mission are the aircraft assigned to when this happens?

Offhand if on strike turn the opportunity fire ROE on. If you have no idea what I'm talking about please do take a look at the manual and update notes.

Thanks

Mike




Barleyman -> RE: I'll return to base even if it'll kill me! (11/15/2014 6:18:25 PM)

AAW patrol as it happens. They fire their AMRAAMs and turn home. So far so good. But when AMRAAMs fail to hit as usual, bad guys often give chase and our guys wont even try to defend themselves unless unassigned so they lose their RTB (winchester) status.

I'll try that opportunity fire thing. But it sounds like it would be for strikes as you pointed out. In any case, one less annoyance for strikes there.



Barleyman -> RE: I'll return to base even if it'll kill me! (11/15/2014 8:46:34 PM)

"Targets of opportunity" seems to include strafing by guns. So the flyboys on AAW patrol will go do flybys near enemy SAM installations.

My headache seems to be getting worse [&:]



djoos5 -> RE: I'll return to base even if it'll kill me! (11/15/2014 11:49:25 PM)

Turn off RTB when winchester.

Your patrol craft will stay on station until fuel is expended.



Barleyman -> RE: I'll return to base even if it'll kill me! (11/16/2014 12:32:10 AM)

That it will do. However.. is that reasonable behavior? Considering bad guys will be throwing their medium-range broomsticks at you?



mikmykWS -> RE: I'll return to base even if it'll kill me! (11/16/2014 4:46:43 AM)

Thats up to the player to decide which is why we added a choice.


Thanks




Tomcat84 -> RE: I'll return to base even if it'll kill me! (11/16/2014 7:14:10 AM)

I just turn RTB when Winchester to off. If the coast is clear when they run out of amraams I RTB them, if not then they can stay and fight (or I manually have them "run" for help).

If you don't like doing anything at all as the player I can record a video of the next scenario I play and you can watch it. [:'(]

I hope you're still enjoying command, you sound a bit frustrated but it helps if you try to keep your requests for new features/tweaks a bit positive. The devs are the most willing and responsive I have ever encountered but it can be a bit frustrating for them when we only harp on the negative of something they keep putting so much effort in to improve. I hope that makes sense and sounds reasonable. [:)]

(I am not a developer btw and stated opinions are completely my own).



Barleyman -> RE: I'll return to base even if it'll kill me! (11/16/2014 11:15:04 AM)

I started doing that, ie switch winchester off for AAW. It's bit silly microing things when the mission tool has so much effort put into it. When you use patrol missions, the AI won't group planes much under 1/3rd rule but planes are put back on air piecemeal - That means there are a lot of AI planes to look after. Going down that direction you probably should not let AI handle the 1/3rd business but add and remove planes from the AAW patrol as necessary.

In any case, that RTB behavior is pretty textbook case of AI limitation. I don't know what kind of logic should be written to it as it'd have to consider at least remaining weapons, distance to base, distance from pursuing fighters etc. Perhaps just a straightforward distance check for self defence behavior to kick in would help. And allowing RTB planned to pick up explicit targeting orders would be nice. Unassigning planes from mission to clear RTB causes some extra hassle.

Personally I like macroing a lot more than microing so "little AI helpers" are important.



thewood1 -> RE: I'll return to base even if it'll kill me! (11/16/2014 11:16:02 AM)

I would also suggest reading or re-reading the manual and addendums. A number of things you seem frustrated about can be resolved or alleviated through ROEs and prosecution zones. There is always going to be a little manual intervention beyond missions if you want it to operate completely hands off. But coming in throwing hypothetical scenarios around is wasting everyone's time. Put a scenario up where you are having a particular problem and let other people see it and send back setups that work.

Can I also suggest a search of the forums. Some of the questions you have asked have been discussed multiple times in the past.



Barleyman -> RE: I'll return to base even if it'll kill me! (11/16/2014 12:39:26 PM)

..wasting time.. Okay, not going to go there.

On related note, I'm just learning the "game" here. I was wondering why my LDGP's have such weird performance and why doesn't the harrier carry the laser-pod either. After a bit of digging in the database I realized that 'l' does not stand for "laser" here. That would explain it.



thewood1 -> RE: I'll return to base even if it'll kill me! (11/16/2014 1:24:53 PM)

Its wasting time if you are doing it in a way that not going to get you an answer. a bunch pf people are trying to help. Set something up where you are having an issue. Post and let people really see it. There are dozens of variables in every engagement and putting up a hypothetical statement without seeing the specific encounter is obviously not going to get you an answer, no matter how many ways you asked the question.

I am not sure what laser designations have to do with the issue...can we focus on one thing at a time?



mikmykWS -> RE: I'll return to base even if it'll kill me! (11/16/2014 5:18:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Barleyman

I started doing that, ie switch winchester off for AAW. It's bit silly microing things when the mission tool has so much effort put into it. When you use patrol missions, the AI won't group planes much under 1/3rd rule but planes are put back on air piecemeal - That means there are a lot of AI planes to look after. Going down that direction you probably should not let AI handle the 1/3rd business but add and remove planes from the AAW patrol as necessary.


Units not being grouped when assigned to a patrol mission is as designed. Better news is that with the next update you'll have an additional option beyond the 1/3rd rule in that you'll be able to specify more or less aircraft to remain on station. So for example you could assign 6 to the mission and then set 4 to always be on station.

quote:

In any case, that RTB behavior is pretty textbook case of AI limitation.


Where is this textbook you speak of? [:)]

quote:

I don't know what kind of logic should be written to it as it'd have to consider at least remaining weapons, distance to base, distance from pursuing fighters etc. Perhaps just a straightforward distance check for self defence behavior to kick in would help. And allowing RTB planned to pick up explicit targeting orders would be nice. Unassigning planes from mission to clear RTB causes some extra hassle.

Personally I like macroing a lot more than microing so "little AI helpers" are important.


I think we've cleared most of those issues for next update but please let us know if its not the case. We do care and actively watch for what bugs people however keep in mind that particular posting styles can either hinder or help in that regard.

Thanks!

Mike



mikmykWS -> RE: I'll return to base even if it'll kill me! (11/16/2014 5:26:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Barleyman

..wasting time.. Okay, not going to go there.

On related note, I'm just learning the "game" here. I was wondering why my LDGP's have such weird performance and why doesn't the harrier carry the laser-pod either. After a bit of digging in the database I realized that 'l' does not stand for "laser" here. That would explain it.


If you can post a save of the weird performance we'll take a look.

Some things of note:

These weapons require laser designation so weather and altitude can impact your ability to launch them. If you're not sure check the database display for release parameters and your mouse block for weather.

You would have to tell us what Harriers are the issue but some of the early one's did buddy illumination as in real life. So you'll need to include another platform that can illuminate the target. If there is a specific problem with a platform at least let us know the year so we can look or ideally the number (in the db display).

As theWood mentioned posting save games just saves a whole lot of time and the game does write autosaves in several increments.

Thanks!

Mike



Barleyman -> RE: I'll return to base even if it'll kill me! (11/16/2014 9:03:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

I think we've cleared most of those issues for next update but please let us know if its not the case. We do care and actively watch for what bugs people however keep in mind that particular posting styles can either hinder or help in that regard.

Thanks!

Mike


Hey, I've been told a few times my manner can be abrasive but we just have to resigned too set in my ways being 40 and all [:'(] in any case, generally I think people read a bit too much negativity here. I may be complaining but if I was frustrated etcetera I'd just move on. Generally I think I can figure out how to run the missions better, it just takes a while to get a handle on. I may have been a little bit too trusting on the machine up to this point. One addition that would be nice would be if you could add a pop-up to mission takin off. When you're occupied with something else your Harpoon strike has rearmed and flies into wolves teeth as the situation has changed. Yeah, I know, I should be removing the planes from such missions afterwards.

What you told eg changes in on-station behavior sounds real good. Lookin forward to it.

Ps. That textbook is in a thousands of forum posts of "stupid ai" in a hundred games.



Barleyman -> RE: I'll return to base even if it'll kill me! (11/16/2014 9:10:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk


quote:

ORIGINAL: Barleyman

..wasting time.. Okay, not going to go there.

On related note, I'm just learning the "game" here. I was wondering why my LDGP's have such weird performance and why doesn't the harrier carry the laser-pod either. After a bit of digging in the database I realized that 'l' does not stand for "laser" here. That would explain it.


If you can post a save of the weird performance we'll take a look.


Thanks!

Mike


Hey,

Changing ldgp to lgb fixed the problem.. "low drag" I presume in former case. For iron bombs is suppose the accuracy was as good as you could expect.



mikmykWS -> RE: I'll return to base even if it'll kill me! (11/16/2014 9:56:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Barleyman


quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk


quote:

ORIGINAL: Barleyman

..wasting time.. Okay, not going to go there.

On related note, I'm just learning the "game" here. I was wondering why my LDGP's have such weird performance and why doesn't the harrier carry the laser-pod either. After a bit of digging in the database I realized that 'l' does not stand for "laser" here. That would explain it.


If you can post a save of the weird performance we'll take a look.


Thanks!

Mike


Hey,

Changing ldgp to lgb fixed the problem.. "low drag" I presume in former case. For iron bombs is suppose the accuracy was as good as you could expect.


Ah yes. Lower altitudes will yield better accuracy although puts you into AAA range.

Mike



mikmykWS -> RE: I'll return to base even if it'll kill me! (11/16/2014 10:13:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Barleyman


quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

I think we've cleared most of those issues for next update but please let us know if its not the case. We do care and actively watch for what bugs people however keep in mind that particular posting styles can either hinder or help in that regard.

Thanks!

Mike


Hey, I've been told a few times my manner can be abrasive but we just have to resigned too set in my ways being 40 and all [:'(] in any case, generally I think people read a bit too much negativity here. I may be complaining but if I was frustrated etcetera I'd just move on. Generally I think I can figure out how to run the missions better, it just takes a while to get a handle on. I may have been a little bit too trusting on the machine up to this point. One addition that would be nice would be if you could add a pop-up to mission takin off. When you're occupied with something else your Harpoon strike has rearmed and flies into wolves teeth as the situation has changed. Yeah, I know, I should be removing the planes from such missions afterwards.

What you told eg changes in on-station behavior sounds real good. Lookin forward to it.

Ps. That textbook is in a thousands of forum posts of "stupid ai" in a hundred games.


Cool but if you annoy to many people its off to Palookaville.

Mike



Barleyman -> RE: I'll return to base even if it'll kill me! (11/17/2014 9:40:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

Cool but if you annoy to many people its off to Palookaville.

Mike



Can't make omelette et cetera.



mikmykWS -> RE: I'll return to base even if it'll kill me! (11/17/2014 10:23:11 PM)

no



Barleyman -> RE: I'll return to base even if it'll kill me! (11/18/2014 9:14:44 AM)

Playing more Harpoon style with micromanaging planes was unsurprisingly quite a bit more succesfull.



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