Is there MORE out there other than Imaginative Strategist?

Is there MORE out there other than Imaginative Strategist? (Full Version)

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MrsWargamer -> Is there MORE out there other than Imaginative Strategist? (11/23/2014 12:55:12 PM)
My current game of choice would be partly PanzerBlitz and Panzer Leader. The Imaginative Strategist site has a total wealth of content, I'm just curious if anyone knows of anything else? Keep in mind the IS site has been around a long time and ideally would know of almost anything of worth. But there is always the chance of something I have missed. I've seen all the articles from the General (via IS). I am NOT interested in that reboot of PanzerBlitz offered by MMP (over priced and under cooked).

Zovs -> RE: Is there MORE out there other than Imaginative Strategist? (11/23/2014 2:41:17 PM)
Do you mean? http://gregpanzerblitz.com/

Zovs -> RE: Is there MORE out there other than Imaginative Strategist? (11/23/2014 2:44:29 PM)
Also, MMP did do a version of PanzerLeader which is like a Historical study of Caan, but they still have in development a version of PanzerBlitz which is more traditional towards the original PanzerBlitz

MrsWargamer -> RE: Is there MORE out there other than Imaginative Strategist? (11/23/2014 2:56:14 PM)
Yeah already been through Greg's stuff. As for MMP, well regardless of my love for ASL, it doesn't mean I need to have anything kind to say about MMP and their inability to actually maintain anything in print. As I mentioned, their reboot of the game is lame. In addition to being an over priced item, and lame. They are the same guys sitting on getting UpFront back in circulation and succeeding in failing on a regular basis.

wings7 -> RE: Is there MORE out there other than Imaginative Strategist? (11/23/2014 4:09:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer As for MMP, well regardless of my love for ASL, it doesn't mean I need to have anything kind to say about MMP and their inability to actually maintain anything in print. Do you know what it costs to produce ASL? Have you seen the cost of paper lately? Comparatively speaking ASL has a small player base and MMP is a small company. Be glad they are producing what they have already! If you really love ASL, you can find quite a bit on the secondary market. Patrick

Challerain -> RE: Is there MORE out there other than Imaginative Strategist? (11/23/2014 5:20:58 PM)
MMP is NOT sitting on UPFRONT. They gave it up up years ago.

Zovs -> RE: Is there MORE out there other than Imaginative Strategist? (11/23/2014 10:31:25 PM)
That is correct, MMP gave up the rights to Upfront and then Upfront tried to work as a Kickstarter project and failed miserably and got tangled up in legal issues and is dead in the water prospect. PanzerBlitz by MMP has not even finished play testing yet. ASL rocks man, but you have to buy the stuff when it comes out, its snooze or loose man...

Challerain -> RE: Is there MORE out there other than Imaginative Strategist? (11/23/2014 10:43:40 PM)
Panzerblitz Hill of Death came out in 2009. I believe they are working on another one

MrsWargamer -> RE: Is there MORE out there other than Imaginative Strategist? (11/24/2014 1:45:42 AM)
Well as I mentioned, I am seeking content designed for the original PanzerBlitz and Panzer Leader and the modifications made specifically for the original designs. I have no interest in paying idiotic prices for half baked releases from MMP. I have the pleasure of possessing the real thing in my case. Just curious if there are hidden locations online I had not encountered in the same vein as IS. Dropped 50 bucks getting all the IS site stuff printed out onto 8.5x11 full page size labels for the counters and black and white pages for the articles and scenarios. Probably the best wargame purchase I have made in a long while. Getting the counters finished will keep me busy I suspect.

Zovs -> RE: Is there MORE out there other than Imaginative Strategist? (11/24/2014 9:53:30 AM)
Greg's site as I posted. Don't know why your so angry with MMP and have an Axe to grind, but your bitterness is your bitterness. MMP does not make half baked products. I hope you enjoy life.

MrsWargamer -> RE: Is there MORE out there other than Imaginative Strategist? (11/24/2014 11:28:16 AM)
Who said I was 'angry' with MMP. Bitter? The only one thinking I am bitter is you. I am not required to be a fangirl of every wargame on the planet. Or of every publisher. I don't like McDonald's I don't care how many think their coffee is better than Tim Horton's for instance, I don't like coffee to begin with, so it wouldn't matter. And I have zero interest in eating there. I don't 'hate' them though. MMP didn't make their flagship product ASL, they just get to sell it. I think they do it in a clumsy fashion though. It doesn't mean I 'hate' them, it just means I think they could do a better job. Ending with "hope you enjoy life" suggests my life is dependent on a wargaming product :) Kinda silly eh.

wings7 -> RE: Is there MORE out there other than Imaginative Strategist? (11/24/2014 11:43:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer MMP didn't make their flagship product ASL, they just get to sell it. I think they do it in a clumsy fashion though. It doesn't mean I 'hate' them, it just means I think they could do a better job. So how can they do a better job? Sounds like you are a ASL expert! [8\|]

MrsWargamer -> RE: Is there MORE out there other than Imaginative Strategist? (11/24/2014 2:15:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wings7 quote: ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer MMP didn't make their flagship product ASL, they just get to sell it. I think they do it in a clumsy fashion though. It doesn't mean I 'hate' them, it just means I think they could do a better job. So how can they do a better job? Sounds like you are a ASL expert! [8\|] Hmm I have been playing it since the 70s, I own all of it. I'm in one of the Annuals. I've written articles on it. I have ideas that might have flown better. Expert? no more than anyone else though.

wings7 -> RE: Is there MORE out there other than Imaginative Strategist? (11/24/2014 4:32:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer quote: ORIGINAL: wings7 quote: ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer MMP didn't make their flagship product ASL, they just get to sell it. I think they do it in a clumsy fashion though. It doesn't mean I 'hate' them, it just means I think they could do a better job. So how can they do a better job? Sounds like you are a ASL expert! [8\|] Hmm I have been playing it since the 70s, I own all of it. I'm in one of the Annuals. I've written articles on it. I have ideas that might have flown better. Expert? no more than anyone else though. So why don't you tell your ideas to MMP? I'm sure they would listen to you, good ideas are never too late.

Challerain -> RE: Is there MORE out there other than Imaginative Strategist? (11/25/2014 12:12:00 AM)
Or better yet...put up your money and get the rights to publish it. Then you can do whatever you want [:)]

AbwehrX -> RE: Is there MORE out there other than Imaginative Strategist? (11/25/2014 1:37:09 AM)
quote: Mrs Wargamer- Hmm I have been playing it since the 70s, I own all of it. I'm in one of the Annuals. I've written articles on it. I have ideas that might have flown better. Expert? no more than anyone else though. Hmmmm it would be an honor to meet you & your husband one day. [:D]

MrsWargamer -> RE: Is there MORE out there other than Imaginative Strategist? (11/25/2014 10:51:30 AM)
Well, meeting the husband might be a problem, as we had a parting of the ways last year. Which not surprisingly has really beaten the hell out of the finances not surprisingly. Not easy shopping for a replacement at my age either. You can buy brides, but not grooms. Seems totally unfair if you ask me :) Must be no money in selling men hehe. I've interacted with the boys of MMP in the past. It hasn't been all bad, but, it hasn't been all great either :) I think for instance, the entire Starter kit concept was a botched idea from the ground up. Used up resources, and really only created a major diversion so that the old guard could buy yet more stuff with the official logo on it. They might have gotten further with something developed as a downloadable file, something made only to teach and not supplant. All they have created, is something that gives an alternative to playing the real thing. And then they went and made further modules so the person could simply continue to not need the real deal. I am not sure exactly what was in their minds when they crafted the whole notion.

wings7 -> RE: Is there MORE out there other than Imaginative Strategist? (11/25/2014 6:15:22 PM)
The Starter Kit is and was a great idea! [:)] There is alot to learn in ASL! This is a complex game. [X(] Remember, this a business, they create products to make a living (they have to eat too!). Patrick

MrsWargamer -> RE: Is there MORE out there other than Imaginative Strategist? (11/25/2014 10:07:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wings7 The Starter Kit is and was a great idea! [:)] There is alot to learn in ASL! This is a complex game. [X(] Remember, this a business, they create products to make a living (they have to eat too!). Patrick There is a lot of humour in your post. The Starter kit being a great idea, that is opinion. Yours, not mine. But whatever. They make products to make a living. That's hilarious. I seem to know a bit more about that subject than you might. The entire MMP business is a secondary indulgence of the owners of it. They'd make a better living income wise, working at Walmart. (I hope you catch the sarcasm I employed picking Walmart). I happen to know though that Curt hardly needed to work at Walmart. I am not sure of his current connection with MMP if he is still present. They print what they can when they can, which is not often, as the ASL product is essentially an already done deal primarily. Take myself for instance, I already own it. Thus I am not a potential customer. There is a very finite market for that type of game though. Printing costs being what they are too, it's not like they can expect it to ever be capable of 'supporting' them in any logical fashion. And the risks involved with printing runs is not something many people would wish to do too casually. Which is why I think the Starters were not entirely inspired. A lot of resources, and for result I am not sure was achieved. It might have actually diluted the player base for the game and given them a cheaper alternative. Hard to know though, as so many of the copies were grabbed up by the old guard who fanatically buy everything near obsessively. It's not like the Starters remained in supply much for new comers to purchase. The old guard just wanted new maps and additional counters. To suggest 'they have to make a living' only makes you sound naive and totally uninformed. But it is not my desire to debate this further, and I hope you don't think I plan to pursue it really. There's no award for winning arguments on the internet.

Challerain -> RE: Is there MORE out there other than Imaginative Strategist? (11/26/2014 12:31:17 AM)
Certainly agree on the making a living part. It is a labor of love...not money. Can't agree on starter kit though. I really think it started out exactly as they thought; a tool for new players. But it sold...and continued to sell and a lot of people actually enjoyed it. Why would they stop selling a moneymaker with no guarantee those people would move to full ASL. As for using resources...I'd say some but not a lot. Ken did most of the SK stuff. Like you I played SL back in the 70's and moved to ASL when it came out. I just got tired of all the rules and pretty much stopped playing. When I would go to MMP on playtest night (before I moved to Texas) I would prefer starter kit. I was better at it and it didn't give me a headache [:)]

MrsWargamer -> RE: Is there MORE out there other than Imaginative Strategist? (11/26/2014 8:16:02 AM)
Myself, if I could go back in time, I'd tell them, just stick with the first manual, accept that the game is not perfect, just make lots of boards and lots of additional counters so that people could make oodles of scenarios. Because there doesn't need to be that much fuss given to some things. Yes some weapons were fractionally different under laboratory test conditions, but often in real life, the differences just didn't matter. I'd have been fine with terrain that wasn't too fussy, I'd have been ok with lots of maps that didn't get too nit picking fussy, I'd have been ok with buying packs of counters that mechanics wise were mostly the same, just differing images for differing nations and weapons. Because the 75 on a Churchill, and a Sherman, and a Pz IV doesn't need to be different. It doesn't need to be significantly different from a T-34. Some of the games evolution wasn't so bad, but, the main problem was they probably just never knew the game would become popular. I don't think they planned for so much success. ASL though, as accurate as it might be, is also intimidating, and so extreme it likely scares off more than it attracts. As I said, the Starters appeared at a time when the internet should have been exploited. They should have made it a downloadable pdf file, because you can download and print out on to a page sized label, and mount on card stock pretty darned easily. And I think if they had done that, they likely would have attracted enough attention, that increased print runs for the main product probably would have been much easier to justify. Every time I drag out my ASL, I have the urge to just back date the whole process to at least Cross of Iron and simply disregard data on the counters that isn't relevant, and rules elements that weren't present. I look at the OOB I possess, and to me, it is more a collection of materials to play Squad Leader than Advanced Squad Leader to a point. I don't worship the ASL manual as being a paragon of perfection. I consider it almost more a testimony to fixing something that often wasn't broken.

thanghn92 -> RE: Is there MORE out there other than Imaginative Strategist? (11/26/2014 10:12:08 AM)
They are the same guys sitting on getting UpFront back in circulation and succeeding in failing on a regular basis

Challerain -> RE: Is there MORE out there other than Imaginative Strategist? (11/26/2014 5:33:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thanghn92 They are the same guys sitting on getting UpFront back in circulation and succeeding in failing on a regular basis quote: They are the same guys sitting on getting UpFront back in circulation and succeeding in failing on a regular basis No, they are not

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