RE: H2HMay1944forpublic (Full Version)

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shermanny -> RE: H2HMay1944forpublic (12/20/2014 7:17:35 PM)

My opponent withdrew from the area. I don't recall there having been any combat to speak of.

During design, I advocated for making the terrain of this part of the Netherlands more difficult.

It cannot in any case have been entirely impassable because the Germans did, after all, dedicate several divisions to its defense.




shermanny -> RE: H2HMay1944forpublic (12/20/2014 7:18:51 PM)

As we approach the endgame, I have an odd question for the designers and programmers: what would happen if the advancing East Front overtook an Allied or Axis unit that was in a hex slated to pass to Soviet control?



carlkay58 -> RE: H2HMay1944forpublic (12/20/2014 9:24:55 PM)

The Allied unit is pushed back out of the way.



Enigma6584 -> RE: H2HMay1944forpublic (12/20/2014 10:39:38 PM)

What a fantastic AAR! Thanks for doing this.



emeg -> RE: H2HMay1944forpublic (12/21/2014 5:44:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shermanny

My opponent withdrew from the area. I don't recall there having been any combat to speak of.

During design, I advocated for making the terrain of this part of the Netherlands more difficult.

It cannot in any case have been entirely impassable because the Germans did, after all, dedicate several divisions to its defense.



Hi Shernanny. Thank you for your reaction.

Your opponent made the choice to withdraw :) Thus ignoring the historical fact, a personal order from Hitler, to defend Fortress Holland at all costs.

I know (I am Dutch) about the German attack against the Rotterdam area in May 1940 from North Brabant (the Breda direction). To take Rotterdam from the south the attack was supported by a successful German airborne action against the Moerdijk Bridges, built across The Hollands Diep, being the 1,5 to 2 km wide water body between Breda and Dordrecht. At the same time other German airborne actions took place in Rotterdam and the The Hague area, resulting in heavy fights with Dutch marine troops near the William (Willem) Bridge in the center of Rotterdam. In fact the Germans used in 1940 against Rotterdam the same assault method as the allied forces did during Operation Market Garden in September 1944.

But there were huge differences between May 1940 and the 1944-1945 period. The defending forces in 1940 were much weaker, and in 1940 the Dutch were defending their own population. The German's were defending enemy territory and after a lot of German civil victims too (by example due continuous bombing rains against German cities) there was not much mercy left for the fate of the population, also resulting in a huge scale famine in the western Netherlands during the last five months of the war.

As you advocated, the terrain in the western Netherlands (but also in other parts as between the major rivers) needs i.m.o. somewhat more attention. As Normandy have its bocage hexes, the map needs i.m.o. polder landscape hexes too. Polderland, being protected against a (temporary) higher than land water level of rivers, lakes or the sea, can be deliberately flooded (inundated).

Examples during World War 2 of inundated (by water overwhelmend) polderland are Men's Island between the Waal and Lower Rhine Rivers at the front between Nijmegen and Arnhem after Operation Market Garden, or the Walcheren Island after RAF Bomber Command breached there the sea dikes at several places (in that case to hamper the German defense) during the Battle of the Scheldt.



shermanny -> RE: H2HMay1944forpublic (12/21/2014 3:32:04 PM)

Here's the situation at the start of turn 29. There just aren't enough Germans left in the area to form a strong front across the entire sector in front of Berlin. So we may be able to make a lot of progress during the snow turn. The good ground conditions favor an advance.

[image]local://upfiles/27458/261AA027836E48A1B21E3F6888D454F9.jpg[/image]



shermanny -> RE: H2HMay1944forpublic (12/21/2014 3:36:50 PM)

And here's the situation at the end of the turn. Endgame, definitely. The plan now is to work around behind Berlin and then hit it from every direction.

[image]local://upfiles/27458/1F1DF612D89C4BBE9304A7F8A408CCC6.jpg[/image]



shermanny -> RE: H2HMay1944forpublic (12/21/2014 3:49:44 PM)

More heavy rain. Well, we can't have the weather all our way. In the meantime, some mention should be made of the interplay between design and testing. This run-through has brought to light a shortcoming in the East-Front transfer system. The system wasn't written with the possibility of an early Allied penetration into Germany in mind, it seems. German transfers from the East Front have been arriving in odd corners of the map, some in places that were already almost cut off, up on the North Sea coast.

We're suggesting to the designers that the arrival point should be something like "next to OKW" or "Frankfurt an der Oder" (the city just East of Berlin on the way to Warsaw.)

Picture shows the situation at the end of Allied turn 30.

[image]local://upfiles/27458/3A1E68F0CDC34FC6B12E6A3A288AACE2.jpg[/image]



shermanny -> RE: H2HMay1944forpublic (12/21/2014 3:54:07 PM)

Here's the situation at the end of Allied 31. Berlin is surrounded, Axis forces in the vicinity have been scattered to the winds, and the city must fall soon. It should be mentioned that as the war goes on and Allied forces progress into Germany, German morale slips away. German divisions may yet fight well, and hold their ground, but if they are defeated, they tend to rout.



[image]local://upfiles/27458/6DDDBF54D2A541B0AA91D2E1A32D3EEA.jpg[/image]



shermanny -> RE: H2HMay1944forpublic (12/21/2014 4:06:51 PM)

Turn 32. Every bomber and ground attack plane available targets Berlin, all on ground attack missions. Many artillery units are attached to the corps commanding the assault teams. Those assault teams get two combat engineers and one SP antitank support unit per division, as a rule.

Twelve divisions attack, supported by an armored reserve. Berlin falls.

A word about the victory system---when Berlin falls, the game ends. If the end comes before late April 1945, the Allies score early-victory points. They also score all the points they might have got for holding cities in general, and all the points they might have got for bombing to ruin, or overrunning, German industry, over the span between when the game ended, and late April. This rule means that there is no point in the Allied player delaying the capture of Berlin, if capture becomes possible, to harvest extra victory points from bombing or city occupation---which is as it should be.

Another design tweak which suggests itself is that the game engine provide a running account, not just of how many points have actually been scored so far, but of what the score {would be} if the Allies were to take Berlin in the current turn. That way, both players could have a better idea of their prospects.

Merry Christmas, Europe. The war ends a few days before Christmas. And Merry Christmas, readers.

[image]local://upfiles/27458/4EE2C8F6D838422DA1BFA7138549FB7A.jpg[/image]



CaptBeefheart -> RE: H2HMay1944forpublic (12/22/2014 2:21:08 AM)

Well done. Thanks for the AAR. And Merry Christmas!

Cheers,
CC



emeg -> RE: H2HMay1944forpublic (12/22/2014 4:45:14 AM)

Great AAR and a nice Western Allied victory before 1945. Where is the Red Army? Being good news for the outcome of the Jalta conference, having in your history the border between West and East Germany probably located along the Oder-Neisse line [;)] Have a merry Christmas!



Szilard -> RE: H2HMay1944forpublic (12/22/2014 5:25:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: emeg

.Hi Shernanny. Thank you for your reaction.

Your opponent made the choice to withdraw :) Thus ignoring the historical fact, a personal order from Hitler, to defend Fortress Holland at all costs.

I know (I am Dutch) about the German attack against the Rotterdam area in May 1940 from North Brabant (the Breda direction). To take Rotterdam from the south the attack was supported by a successful German airborne action against the Moerdijk Bridges, built across The Hollands Diep, being the 1,5 to 2 km wide water body between Breda and Dordrecht. At the same time other German airborne actions took place in Rotterdam and the The Hague area, resulting in heavy fights with Dutch marine troops near the William (Willem) Bridge in the center of Rotterdam. In fact the Germans used in 1940 against Rotterdam the same assault method as the allied forces did during Operation Market Garden in September 1944.

But there were huge differences between May 1940 and the 1944-1945 period. The defending forces in 1940 were much weaker, and in 1940 the Dutch were defending their own population. The German's were defending enemy territory and after a lot of German civil victims too (by example due continuous bombing rains against German cities) there was not much mercy left for the fate of the population, also resulting in a huge scale famine in the western Netherlands during the last five months of the war.

As you advocated, the terrain in the western Netherlands (but also in other parts as between the major rivers) needs i.m.o. somewhat more attention. As Normandy have its bocage hexes, the map needs i.m.o. polder landscape hexes too. Polderland, being protected against a (temporary) higher than land water level of rivers, lakes or the sea, can be deliberately flooded (inundated).

Examples during World War 2 of inundated (by water overwhelmend) polderland are Men's Island between the Waal and Lower Rhine Rivers at the front between Nijmegen and Arnhem after Operation Market Garden, or the Walcheren Island after RAF Bomber Command breached there the sea dikes at several places (in that case to hamper the German defense) during the Battle of the Scheldt.


Flooding should surely be a part of this game.

Apart from the examples you mention - the Roer dams!



Devonport -> RE: H2HMay1944forpublic (12/22/2014 10:29:38 AM)

Shermanny

Like to add my thanks for this well written and instructive AAR. Well done.



IslandInland -> RE: H2HMay1944forpublic (3/6/2015 5:29:18 PM)

This is an excellent AAR. It's the first one I read after purchasing the game and really gives a full flavour of the gameplay.




Zecke -> RE: H2HMay1944forpublic (9/7/2017 10:16:23 AM)

Hay; just one question about the GERMAN AI

Does the AI build units (non historical) as in war in the East (Russia AI); or are only the Historical UNITS of the German armys; i mean you just fight against the German historical units and no other units created randomly by the AI so the AI cant not created new units as much as they can.



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