Better approximation of CV (Full Version)

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Tuhhodge -> Better approximation of CV (11/28/2014 2:03:21 PM)

Hello all,

I have browsed the forum but cannot find a discussion about the 1941-45 Campaign with ALT CV.

Could someone please explain:

1) the reasoning for the 'Better approximation of CV';

2) how it is calculated and displayed in the game;

3) whether it is genuinely seen as more accurate or merely a means of counterbalancing an imbalance elsewhere in the game?

Thanks!



Lictuel -> RE: Better approximation of CV (11/28/2014 6:20:42 PM)

Based on what I know the answers for 2 and 3 are:
2) The displayed CV takes into account the base CV of the unit and then the probability of the different leader checks to succeed. This is only a different way of calculating the on counter CV afaik it has no effect on the in combat CVs. It just better approximates the combat CV.

That means the answer to 3) it is no way of balancing the game at all, it has no influence on the combat results. It just helps the players better evaluate the situation.



Tuhhodge -> RE: Better approximation of CV (11/28/2014 6:55:35 PM)

Thanks Lictuel.



morvael -> RE: Better approximation of CV (11/28/2014 7:03:36 PM)

Internally (for AI) Alt CV is used since 1.07.12.
Alt CV is closer to what you can get during combat when the random effect are applied by modifying the core value to correctly take into account expected values of random rolls.

Example:
CV 100, Morale 60

"Old" CV modified by morale: 100 * 60/100 = 60

During combat there is morale chance (60% in this case) that CV will be doubled (to 200 in this case).
There is a separate chance (100-60=40% in this case) that CV will be halved (to 50 or 100, depending on the result of the first test).

"Alt" CV is calculated as this:
100 can become 200 with 60% chance (or remain 100 with 40% chance), so the expected value is 40%*100+60%*200=40+120=160
160 can become 80 with 40% chance (or remain 160 with 60% chance), so the expected value is 40%*80+60%*160=32+96=128

"Alt" CV in this case is 128 whereas "Old" CV is 60. In actual combat you can get four possible results:
50 with 40%*40%=16% chance (not doubled and halved)
100 with 60%*40%=24% chance (doubled and halved)
100 with 40%*60%=24% chance (not doubled and not halved)
200 with 60%*60%=36% chance (doubled and not halved)
As you can see all the chances add up to 100% as they should, and weighted values 16%*50+24%*100+24%*100+36%*200=8+24+24+72=128 are also equal to the previously calculated result.

To sum it up, do you think 60 is more accurate or 128 when compared to the actual results to be obtained during the random process?



Oshawott -> RE: Better approximation of CV (11/28/2014 7:33:14 PM)

How does actual combat of individual elements effect these numbers? If an element is destroyed does this lower CV? Does combat effect morale during battle?



morvael -> RE: Better approximation of CV (11/28/2014 8:01:12 PM)

Air support is able to disrupt/damage/destroy elements before the final (ground) combat happens, and then after that process the final CV is calculated (the one which determines result), so yes, combat lowers CV. But as can be seen the random multipliers can make CV very large or very small, so combat matters more when strengths and leaders are equal. With superiority in elements and better leaders CV won't be affected by casualties so much as to reverse the tide of battle. Morale is changed only after combat, during combat it is constant (AFAIK).



Tuhhodge -> RE: Better approximation of CV (11/29/2014 8:09:32 AM)

Thanks Morvael, a typically helpful response.



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