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RockinHarry -> Re: Trench or Gully (3/4/2003 11:55:39 PM)
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by dlazov
[B]I read through Rockin Harry's doc, but it was mostly techincial on using Freds Map Editor. There were some interesting things, but...
On the map I see this:
Gully = -2
Trench = -1
What exactly is the difference? (or read which is more like WW1 type of trench-this is a perspective thing I guess-I like the trench look, but really trenches could be at -2)
In SP WW2 Trenches can be placed on hills but SP WaW the trenches and gullies seam to cut through the hill (i.e. instead of being on the hill and a slightly lower level SP WaW makes them -1 and -2 where as SP WW2 only lowers them so that SP WW2 makes the trenches work more realistically).
Don't want a arguing match just trying to figure this out.
For SP WaW I have to drastically modify my map (i.e. do I use a sunken road and place trenches historically like my maps scans? In SP WaW I have to devaite a lot because of the above. For WW2 games that is okay, but for WW1 games it is not. For example in the Somme area the Germans held the high ground and the British held the lower ground, hence the German MG's were firing at an advantange, but if a trench is at -1 or -2 not sure of the out come-playtest note to Don-just get it done and see instead of quibbling with yourself on the accuraccy of the map-on the other hand....)
Okay, I have talked myself into it, I will make two "big" scenarios, one with trenches and one with gullies-unless a more exp. mapper tells me right up front the best to use (hint, hint) and test the results. Not yet sure how to model paripits (misspelled) in the trenches (what about the ladders?....)
lol [/B][/QUOTE]
If you try to make SPWAW maps out of the box, then you most likely will be dissatisfied with the results,..the more as you try to model terrain (WW1 trench systems) that actually can be modelled halfway realistic in Freds map editor only! :eek:
Basically "Trench" and "Stream/gully" terrain in SPWAW is almost the same, effect wise! They can be placed on level 0 terrain only, provide good cover for units in hex and increase breakdown chance for vehicles driving through it. They´re not any line of sight obstacle too.
Did you read the "How to" section in my tech manual? The one that describe how to make custom trench lines??:confused: Actually there you should find all you need and questions answered btw. It also includes how to place trench line - like terrain on any elevated terrain, not just level 0!
some more things to know: SPWAW only knows terrain elevation steps in 5 in/decrements, starting with 0, then 5,10,15 and so on...
If you see any "height" of say...11..or -2 then that does not mean 11 meters or -2 (below sea level 0) meters! These extra numbers indicate terrain identification flags, that are used to differentiate between similar terrain classes. Below level 0 terrain generally is reserved for the water kind of terrain, including swamp, marshes ect. Check the map making document for more details.
The combination that I use for "trenchlines" is a mixture of "gully" graphics (for the sake of scale), attributed with "entrenchment" status, without the use of the sandbag graphics. That custom terrain only can be created in Freds Map Editor.
Off course, if you like the big "Trench" graphic more, you can combine it with the "Entrenchment" attribute mentioned above.
While normal "trench" and "gully" terrain provide you with good to very good cover, only the "Entrenchment" attribute would provide you the cover that you would expect from 2 meter deep WW1 combat trenches.;) Usually..."Rough", "Stone building" and "Entrenchments" (Dug-In status!) give best cover and can be placed on any elevation on SPWAW maps.
Sunken Road? Either use "Rough" terrain and put a road on top or make the road -5 deep, relative to current level. Means...on a level 10 hill, make the road 5, ect. There is no -5 (below 0) road, as any negative height terrain is treated as some kind of water terrain in SPWAW. So your deepest road that you can make would be at level/height 0 and the surrounding terrain needs to be at least at level 5!
Paripits?? I guess you mean terrain features that are far below the 50m/hex scale in SPWAW? How would you model effect of such features???;)
Ok...I hope I was not too boring! :D Need example map? Let me know.:)
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