RE: No penalty for mixing different nationalities? (Full Version)

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radic202 -> RE: No penalty for mixing different nationalities? (1/5/2015 11:39:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: J Boomer

Almost all the Canadians spoke English. French Canadian Regiments were in the minority and English the was the official language of the Army during the war. French was introduced post war. As well at the time had a very large English speaking component thus some of the "French Canadian" units had Anglos in them.


Are you 100% sure about that? Now talking only from what my Grandfather who served in the Fusiliers de Montréal, wounded in Dieppe and served many areas of Europe during WW2.. I still have all his notebooks, his payroll book, heck I still have his joke-book (he loved telling jokes so he wrote every new joke he came across), anyhow he never ever spoke one word of English (strictly French Canadian) and I specifically remember asking him how he would understand battle plans or deployment form English Commanders whether they were English Canadian, American, British etc.....and he said his commands/orders were always given to him in French by the very few French Canadian Officers that were assigned to his Battle Group. You must all understand that French Canadians during WW2 had very few Officers of High Rank as they were somewhat negated to like African American Soldiers during that time period thought to be lesser (but that is a long historical issue). They were not considered for promotion as quickly as the English Canadians..........just the way it was back then.

Back to this conversation. I do not doubt that higher up they received their orders form English Speaking Ranking Officers but knee deep in the Field they always were told what to do in French, their native tongue, and I have his notebooks written in his very uneducated French grammar to prove it.

Now mind you he was a simply Master Corporal and did not have the 2 shiny Maple Leafs my dad had, but still he was always proud to serve in a French Speaking Canadian Regiment.



Radagy -> RE: No penalty for mixing different nationalities? (1/6/2015 10:27:33 AM)

I once again agree with HMS. I think that after changing the command chain, it should take one turn to settle things all right.
New commanders, new staff, new chain of command. I guess it takes time to get in touch with it.



KWG -> RE: No penalty for mixing different nationalities? (1/6/2015 2:29:48 PM)

The Axis are very multicultural, look at all those small units. Then there is the SS.... 5ss Wiking had translation problems at time.


There was a German soldat captured at Normandy that was Korean.
Who having been.... captured by the..... Japanese,enlisted.....Russians,enlisted......Germans,enlisted.....Allies.?

He likes being on the winning team, don't he.



dereck -> RE: No penalty for mixing different nationalities? (1/6/2015 8:14:24 PM)

Speaking as someone who served in a military I went through 3 different CO's on the Midway as well as department CO's and we NEVER suffered from "getting in touch with it". In fact we won back to back to back Battle Efficiency ribbons.

Guess if facts don't conform to one's theory then the facts must have to be changed ....



Radagy -> RE: No penalty for mixing different nationalities? (1/6/2015 8:39:16 PM)

Back to the game, in order to provide max efficiency in combat, I change my HQ structure to lots of units each week.
Doesn't it sound a little gamey? Making that sort of thing on a battlefield (each week and at all levels), would arise troubles. IMHO, the least you should be charged, is a cost in admin points (like in WiTE).



dereck -> RE: No penalty for mixing different nationalities? (1/6/2015 8:44:13 PM)

No they shouldn't change anythign and penalize people like me who don't do unrealistic moves like you do.

The US army did move divisions, corps and even whole armies (they gave Monty control of the 1st and 9th Armies during the Battle of the Bulge).

Play realistic or accept the fact that you'll get away with stuff like that.



Radagy -> RE: No penalty for mixing different nationalities? (1/6/2015 8:54:54 PM)

Forgive me, but I just play by the rules



Baelfiin -> RE: No penalty for mixing different nationalities? (1/6/2015 9:00:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Radagy

Back to the game, in order to provide max efficiency in combat, I change my HQ structure to lots of units each week.
Doesn't it sound a little gamey? Making that sort of thing on a battlefield (each week and at all levels), would arise troubles. IMHO, the least you should be charged, is a cost in admin points (like in WiTE).

Do you have any resources documenting a change in HQ made it harder for the guy in the line to fight?




Radagy -> RE: No penalty for mixing different nationalities? (1/6/2015 9:17:13 PM)

I have no experience in the armed force, but common sense and work eperience tells me that each time you change an organizational matrix something happens and something has to be changed (admin cost in game terms).
I'm thinking by analogy. May be I'm wrong and in the armed forces this process is seamless.



dereck -> RE: No penalty for mixing different nationalities? (1/6/2015 10:37:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Radagy

May be I'm wrong and in the armed forces this process is seamless.



It is for the most part unless you get an incompetent commander. The US (and all militaries) have their own military doctrines they follow and that's what is important not the commanders. You may have a new CO but the S-1, S-2, S-3, S-4, etc are still using the same procedures for their prospective positions according to doctrine.

The military is not like the civilian workplace where you could have an executive in the same job for years and leaves people in panic when he/she leaves. The average assignment is 18 months to 2 years before they move on.

Long-term consistency in leadership is not something you have in the military.



Radagy -> RE: No penalty for mixing different nationalities? (1/6/2015 10:50:25 PM)

Ok, thanks for your clarification.[:)]



JSBoomer -> RE: No penalty for mixing different nationalities? (1/8/2015 5:23:07 AM)

You are correct, company level and down would have been in French. I was talking about the operational level and not what the troops on the ground were doing. Master Corporal was not a Canadian Rank at the time, perhaps he was a Lance Corporal? It would be a the equivalent of a Master Corporal in todays Canadian army. By the way he had every reason to be proud of his regiment and his service. Thanks for your additions to my point.



Ormbane -> RE: No penalty for mixing different nationalities? (1/8/2015 1:46:28 PM)

In the book Rising Sun, Falling Sky the author does document problems that arose within ABDA because of differences in doctrine, language, logistics, tactics, etc. Of course, this was primarily involving naval forces and to a lesser extent air forces. Whether or not the outcome would have been appreciably different in the early days of the Japanese efforts in the Pacific is debatable, but probably not.

In Atkinson's trilogy on the US in the European and Mediterranean theaters of WW2 he also documents various frictions and inefficiencies, but again it is not clear that the ultimate outcome would have been different. Of course, there were also frictions and inefficiencies even within the same military forces, such as within US Army forces or with inter-service rivalries, etc.

In more recent times the US has learned some hard lessons about problems that may occur by mixing even US forces without a proper command structure, and we have also made some (limited) efforts to standardize weapons and ammunition with NATO allies, to attempt to reduce logistical problems. Soldiers without bullets are less effective, obviously.

On the other hand, there was the example of "The Devil's Brigade" which won several unit citations in WW2 and was composed of both Canadian and US nationals. But in this case they trained together, fought together, and supported each other in barroom brawls.

If this game were to impose any penalty for having mixed units under a HQ I would think that it would be in the area of logistics.



KWG -> RE: No penalty for mixing different nationalities? (1/8/2015 5:40:41 PM)

One reason the US Military developed the "military alphabet" is because the northern soldiers could not understand the speech of the southern soldiers. Especially on the radio.

A friend of mine was researching local battle reports from the civil war. A rebel was captured and was interrogated by the yanks. They wrote... "the rebel says Forrest has been in camp on Aug Creek."

Hog Creek.



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