Amyone still here for help? (Full Version)

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JonBrave -> Amyone still here for help? (1/5/2015 9:25:55 AM)

So, I finally took the plunge and just bought this one (having never figured out ACW or FF!).

I have a number of newbie questions I'd like to ask; is anyone still around here who might answer them? :)



Treefrog -> RE: Amyone still here for help? (1/5/2015 1:54:59 PM)

fire away.



ryan1488 -> RE: Amyone still here for help? (1/7/2015 4:56:54 AM)

Yep still my go to civil war game



JonBrave -> RE: Amyone still here for help? (1/10/2015 10:39:39 AM)

Sorry guys, been at work all week! And TBH I didn't think anyone would actually reply...

These are probably ramblings. Finally bought WBtS, including the printed manual. My goodness there's a lot to learn!! I have been thru tutorials & videos (though perhaps I ought go thru them again now).

One thing I'll say about the manual: it's very detailed about the rules/mechanics. But what it doesn't do much is give you any "summary/advice" about what it adds up to meaning in simple terms. For example, "your units will be OK for supply while in friendly territory, but in (potential) problems once you invade", or "you should use your 2 upgrades to mounted units every turn", or "you should normally use your 2 leader recruitments each turn, but you might be better saving up till a better leader is available", or "there is or is not any point having multiple leaders move into a combat region". I could probably go on!

Been trying out the Union in '61. I can't actually do a lot! So I've taken some time out to try reading the manual, which does seem to have stuff I don't think is in the tutorials. here are a few things I think I've learned, but please correct me if not:

1. The list button above does nothing!

2. I really need leaders with initiative to move my units much, and certainly if I want to go into enemy territory.

3. 1861 gives restricted initiative, so I may have to wait till later to get more mobility than I have now.

4. From my Limey knowledge of the Civil War, I probably have bad initiative for my Union leaders at the outset, so that's also limiting me.

5. I basically want one Theatre Commander for the East and another one for the West. The Eastern one will be at his best if in DC. Don't go moving your TCs into combat! TCs have a 6-odd region range.

6. An Army Commander affects leaders who start out the turn stacked with him (not adjacent). He should or should not move with them if they move to combat?

7. I recall that Sheridan was a good Union cavalry commander. Let's say I'd like to recruit him. Do I need to try recruiting loads of Union cavalry leaders till he shows up? Or am I supposed to wait (I think he might have been not at the start of the conflict) till a later date, and then he''ll show up automatically, or at that point I start recruiting to get him?

8. I don't know if I'm supposed to do anything about the CSA Commerce Raiders? I seem to start out with most sea areas adjacent to CSA being blockaded for me? Am I wanting to occupy every sea area to make it better?

9. If I want to do much with a gunboat/ironclad, I need a naval leader to command them? (I tried moving one on his own up a river near The Big Easy, and he just got killed!)

10. This forum has AARs, but often the author just stops after a couple of posts!

On a final note. I found ACW & FoF way too fiddly with everything to do, difficult interface with all their leader attachment stuff. I do think WBtS is going to be more up my street. I come from a background, many years ago, of hex war games. Victory Games' The Civil War was my idea of just great, especially with its idea of limited Command Points you had to spend to do much in a Theatre. I'm thinking WBtS might have similarities.

If you guys reply I'm sure I'll find more questions! It would be nice to liven up this board. I think I ought stop now and post this; I'll go try again in 1861 and maybe come up with more questions [:)]

***STOP PRESS***
I have (only) just discovered that the manual has a section Strategy & Tactics! I must go read this, at last something that gives me an overview of what is going on and what I need to do....



JonBrave -> RE: Amyone still here for help? (1/10/2015 1:14:32 PM)

7. Activating Leaders
OK, I'm beginning to get some of this. [sm=happy0065.gif]

a. Leaders have an activation delay. As each turn passes and it gets lower, at a certain point (but not before) a leader gets moved into Leader Activation Probabilities screen.

b. Once in Activation screen, I'm not sure whether a leader's probability gets higher on its own each turn, or whether he is "stuck behind" another leader with a high percentage till that leader gets recruited first? I need to understand this one!

c. I try not spending my activations to see what happens. Sometimes, but not always (often?), a leader gets activated for me (perhaps he needs an unused activation, but even with unused and some leaders on 100% nobody gets activated?).

Most importantly: once I have been shown this turn's Activations/Promotions/Constructions page, and it has been dismissed, I cannot find any way of getting to see it again? Even the turn replay with "messages only" does not give me this one again?



JonBrave -> RE: Amyone still here for help? (1/10/2015 3:38:12 PM)

Have I been stuck in a bug?

I suddenly noticed the only way I could move anything at all was strategic (no wonder I couldn't attack anywhere!). The panel's "Move Strategic" icon was shown selected. Nothing would happen if I tried to change to "Automatic Move" or unselect Strategic. After ages of clicking and not understanding, I saved the game, exited, re-loaded, and now all is fine again. Does this happen, did I do something wrong?

Just happened again when I went back in. [:@] OK, I just figured, I'm playing full-screen, I pressed <Ctrl>+<Esc> to get to desktop to come here, then went back into game. It then appears it thinks my <Ctrl> key is permanently held down --- hence forcing strategic move --- till I depress & release it, then it gets back to normal. I had no idea, and spent ages on this. How infuriating [:(]



JonBrave -> RE: Amyone still here for help? (1/10/2015 4:16:27 PM)

OK, last question for today!

Union Turn 1, I attacked Manassas with a force so as not to lose PPs, but I saw message come up real quick which still said I had lost PPs for not attacking Manassas? I think this might have come up before it resolved the end-of-turn combat there? Was I maybe supposed to force-resolve earlier? Or was it because it was badly outnumbered and lost?

I should love to see responses to any of the above stuff you feel like commenting on. If you keep replying I'll keep asking.... [:D]



ryan1488 -> RE: Amyone still here for help? (1/10/2015 8:02:57 PM)

As far as your last one, if you do not send enough units to attack then you still get the penalty. Not sure what that exact number is, but it's somewhere in the patch notes



ryan1488 -> RE: Amyone still here for help? (1/10/2015 8:05:26 PM)

#7 your last point I believe if you press the "e" key the screen you're looking for will pop up



JonBrave -> RE: Amyone still here for help? (1/12/2015 9:56:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rs99z28

#7 your last point I believe if you press the "e" key the screen you're looking for will pop up


You're a LifeSaver! (@Progammers: Please don't put in a feature like this which requires knowledge of a key press without an icon!)

Now that I can see what went on, I also discover that my attack on Manassas was 5 vs 180!



JonBrave -> RE: Amyone still here for help? (1/12/2015 10:30:45 AM)

Naval unit combat is quite beyond me [&:]

I believe I have discovered:

* Transports are needed for strategic movement, and amphibious landings. I get their capacity. I (Union) seem to start with so many transports dotted around that I can't see I'm going to need to build any more of them?

* Cruisers are needed to blockade. I am unsure whether (some) ports/coastals would benefit from more than 1 Cruiser? (I know I need to invade islands --- waiting for Spring!) I have just discovered "Region AO2", so now I know how to get at those Commerce Raiders!

* Gunboats, and Ironclads once I can build them, are for attacking each other, killing CSA Transports, and I think cutting off cities. they can fire at Heavy Artillery, though the HA gets to fire at them first.

My very limited attempts at collecting a couple of GunBoats under a naval leader and moving them along rivers result in CSA's Heavy Artillery blowing them up. I think I need more GunBoats at a time so that they outnumber the HAs, but they have more HAs than I have GBs. Would anyone care to summarise in English how I am supposed to go about actually using my naval units?




JonBrave -> RE: Amyone still here for help? (1/12/2015 12:13:39 PM)

Attrition/Supply:

It's Winter. I am starting to lose guys from Attrition. I know I can lose troops even if supplied, but 5x more likely if unsupplied. Manual (p.134) says <Shift>+U is a hotkey to show unsupplied regions --- it shows nothing. Possible. As an experiment, I pile up troops in regions, and disband all Depots I have. I advance a couple of turns. Still losing to attrition, seemingly in stacked areas. I look through every unit and they all have "supplied" marker on them. <Shift>+U still never darkens a region or shows me anything.

Do I really have no unsupplied units? Does <Shift>+U actually do anything? How do I find unsupplied units? Is my attrition nothing to do with unsupplied?



ryan1488 -> RE: Amyone still here for help? (1/12/2015 11:25:42 PM)

You will definitely need more transports if you're going to do any costal invasions besides the minor islands.

Don't send your gunboats in a few at a time, build up a good sized force first. Then you can start knocking out those heavy arts.

You need more than one cruiser per port. I'm not sure how many exactly but press your e key and check the blockade level, if its low add more cruisers.

You will lose troops from general disease and desertion a few every turn usually. This is normal.



JonBrave -> RE: Amyone still here for help? (1/13/2015 7:10:04 PM)

Thanks for your comments.

Does <Shift>U actually show any unsupplied anything? How do you know if you are over-stacking, and possibly need to build more depots --- please don't tell me that from the full pop-up information I have to calculate for myself?!



ryan1488 -> RE: Amyone still here for help? (1/13/2015 7:33:13 PM)

As the union I've never experienced a unit being out of supply, shouldn't happen unless you get yourself cut off.

And as far as I know there is no stacking limit, although I think the more units you have in a territory the more will be lost from attrition



Treefrog -> RE: Amyone still here for help? (1/14/2015 3:30:41 PM)

questions 2 thru 6: Put one TC in Washington and the other in Cairo. The Western TC moves to Nashville when available. Initiative is poor in 1861; use amphib to capture islands and one fort at the mouth of Mississippi. Use your cav to occupy Missouri & W.Vir. After the cav occupies the region the infantry can inch forward even w/o initiative.
Your AC should probably go into combat with his troops to give them his combat advantages. The critical thing for AC initiative is to have 2 or more depots in the area and keep them protected with your inept cavalry. As the AC stays still on top of his depot he will eventually get initiative.

uestion 7: I have never understood the "automatic" show up; I wait until he is on the screen and try for him. Frankly, you may wish him to command an infantry corps and groom him for an AC position.

question 8: I typically build 10 cruisers turn one and get almost all the cruisers into the Atlantic to kills raiders; build gunboats for the Atlantic blockade and be sure to put depots on captured island to double the blockade effect. Leaders are critical to successful blockades.

Activating leaders: a. yes, b. yes use the hotkey to activate the chronology for recent actions, which should include new leader activations

Manassas: rs99z28 has it right; send the minimum amount.
Transports: plenty for the West, you may wish to build some in your "second" tier of naval building for the East

Don't wait for spring to invade the island; put a bunch of leaders with one infantry unit in DC with the TC and AC and wait; inevitably one or two will get amphib initiative; you only need one inf to capture the island, then SM an efficient engineer to the island, build a depot and leave it garrisoned by a regular.
HA in double forts are very tough; if in single forts they are vulnerable to your ironclads. In the West, wait until you have 8 or 9 gunboats and just blast your way through the CSA HA in single forts.

attrition: every USA unit should be supplied every turn; it is criminal for anybody to have increased attrition for want of supply.
There is a hotkey to check for unsupplied units; use it. The other variable factor you can influence to minimize attrition is to keep your militia units in the north until they are trained up to be regulars. If a militia dies, you lost a unit. If a regular dies, it goes to the replacement pool so you only lose half the unit. rs99z28 has it right again on islands .

good luck and have fun



JonBrave -> RE: Amyone still here for help? (1/18/2015 8:45:54 PM)

@Treefrog
Thank you for your tips. The one about using cavalry with infantry behind to inch forward out West might help me! Also the one about wanting *2* depots.

It's about August 1862. I let the Confederacy invade Kentucky, and sure enough they have fortified Paducah. I can't seem to get past, neither by troops nor by gunboats. In the East they have just taken Fort Monroe from me. Their new ironclads & gunboats are popping up in the GoM & Atlantic to attack the blockaders. I suck, but love it [:D]



ryan1488 -> RE: Amyone still here for help? (1/18/2015 8:48:40 PM)

Make sure you're updated to the latest version, ironclad production for csa should be very low



JonBrave -> RE: Amyone still here for help? (1/18/2015 8:50:39 PM)

I am indeed at latest (1.040, IIRC). But I'm talking about one ironclad appearing in GoM, sinking my defenceless cruisers --- remember, I'm just learning this game!



ryan1488 -> RE: Amyone still here for help? (1/18/2015 9:16:26 PM)

I got this game when it came out and a still learn a thing here and there.

Ps.
Use New York entirely for ironclad production the first go round



JonBrave -> RE: Amyone still here for help? (1/19/2015 11:10:16 AM)

I am definitely at 1.040, which was the last. I have indeed been using NY just for Ironclad production, as that's the only place USA can build them. Meanwhile, CSA is building 1 per turn, and by October '62 he has a good half-dozen dotted around. Is that what you meant by "CSA Ironclad production limited", 'coz I'm not finding him terribly limited?

He seems to be able to sortie his ironclads from a port, attack the sea area cruisers, and then get them back into port same turn. Not absolutely sure how he does this, as I was hoping to catch his ironclads out in sea area next turn, which does not happen. Yes, I dot defending GS/IS into sea areas to prevent, but it's hard to spread them out given that he can attack in several sea areas.

On the subject of Raiders. He has about 10 now, and I have about 10 Cruisers (under a good leader, Farragut) in the sea area intercepting. I do see that sometimes mine "chase" some of theirs, so preventing them raiding. However, I have never seen my cruisers sink a single one of their Raiders (nor, for that matter, have any of my cruisers been sunk/damaged). I'm confused: with the manual saying, I think, that there is a 5% per turn chance of each of my cruisers or their raiders being damaged/sunk each time, I don't get why this never seems to happen?
[Edit: Well, blow me down! For the first time ever, this turn he lost 3 raiders! I had put in 13 cruisers (including a second leader) against his 11 raiders, I don't know whether it was because I outnumbered him?]




ryan1488 -> RE: Amyone still here for help? (1/19/2015 2:33:56 PM)

csa shouldn't be building one per turn, maybe they are repairs? check in the patch notes youll find info about CSA limited ironclad production.

in my experience you should jump hard on the raiders early! they start shinking ships here and there and once they get experience they are much harder to sink. add as many cruisers as you can as soon as you can.



JonBrave -> RE: Amyone still here for help? (1/24/2015 10:36:24 AM)

I counted. It's Feb '63, and CSA has 4 Ironclads (felt like more!) --- does that sound right? I have managed to build 3 (more in pipeline), having concentrated on Cruisers.

Here's a question: the manual/tutorials seem to encourage you to include an Artillery piece with an Infantry leader with several Infantry (and there's a hotkey for that), but I'm finding this is restricting his movement with infantry.
* Am I right to try to build Artillery leaders and group all my Artillery under them, rather than with any Infantry leader? Or is that bad in combat?
* Another question: if I have a single artillery piece in a region and only an Infantry leader there, does the Artillery fare just as well combat-wise if he's unattached, because an Infantry leader (while he might help with movement) gives nothing to the Artillery for combat?



ryan1488 -> RE: Amyone still here for help? (1/24/2015 2:44:03 PM)

Sounds about right for the AI. You'll find human opponent typically builds less.

As the union you should build nothing but ironclads in new york on the first turn, which I think is 4 at a time. And consider doing another round of builds after that depending on your naval situation.

If you do this the csa navy shouldn't be much more than a nuisance.


The first part of your next question depends on whether or not you are playing with the csc rule. I'll assume you're not since you're new. If that's the case feel free to attach however you like. Obviously cavalry with calvary.

In my experience even the worst leader will put up a better fight than an area with no leaders at all. Also unattached units will automatically attach to a leader if that area is under attack and the leader has any available command points.


You're probably seeing your movement capability going down because a leaders skill rating affects how many movement points the unit gets. For example a leader with a 3 infantry skill level will move further than one with a 2 rating.

And unfortunately the union has a ton of leaders with only a 1 artillery rating. And the stack only moves as fast as the slowest unit.



JonBrave -> RE: Amyone still here for help? (1/24/2015 3:27:12 PM)

Thanks for all. (Yes, not playing with CSC, not Fog of War --- first ever game!)

Very politely, you're missing the point I was asking about artillery & infantry mixed under a leader (actually your last sentence is very pertinent, just what I'm seeing). I understand how leader bonuses work. The problem is that an infantry leader has a low artillery rating, so he boosts infantry movement OK but not so much on artillery; that means the stack's movement is limited by the artillery. So I'm finding my infantry does not get enough movement points when mixed with artillery --- I've checked with same-bonus infantry leaders with & without artillery in their stack and find a 1 point difference, which I need terribly for some moves (across rivers, into enemy territory, etc.) That means I'm creating infantry-only stacks under infantry leaders, and artillery-only stacks under artillery leaders. Then I'm asking: as a result, are my infantry-only (or artillery-only) stacks bad in combat because they are not mixed?

Also, separate question, please [:)] As per manual's suggested Union strategy, to boost the blockade I have successfully taken the 3 islands down the East Coast. This seemed to happen via strategic movement. Anyway, I'm now positioned to take "Dauphin" island off south coast Georgia. Only it won't let me [&:] I have transports all in place (from last turn), I have leaders with 1 guy with initiative (including amphib invasion, if required). I can strategic move all the way to the sea area no problem, but neither strategic nor amphib movement is available onto that island. How am I supposed to do it, is it behaving differently because it is far away, or what? Many thanks for your answer!



ryan1488 -> RE: Amyone still here for help? (1/24/2015 4:26:45 PM)

leader A with 10 infantry and leader B with 10 artillery vs leader A with 5 infantry and 5 artillery and leader B with 5 infantry and 5 artillery?

Unfortunately its a curiosity in this game that I'm not sure of myself. But I believe in either scenario above, all things will be equal, it would just come down to leader ratings. But I'm not 100% maybe someone else could chime in.

Everything sounds like its in place for your invasion, not sure there. If you zip your save you can attach it to your post and we can get it figured out.



JonBrave -> RE: Amyone still here for help? (1/25/2015 7:32:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rs99z28
Everything sounds like its in place for your invasion, not sure there. If you zip your save you can attach it to your post and we can get it figured out.


In my attached Save16, I wish to invade Dauphin Island, AL. I'd like to do it with Rufus King, Philadelphia, PA, who has initiative (also amphib move, but I think that's irrelevant, as previous island invasions seemed to be done by strategic move). But feel free to find anyone who can do it?



ryan1488 -> RE: Amyone still here for help? (1/25/2015 5:30:15 PM)

You will need initiative anytime you make a move into enemy territory.

Looking at your save I see only 1 transport in the destination area. With a transport level of 25/2. For invasions you will be looking at the 2nd number which is a 2, however you need 4 transport points for each infantry you invade with. So add a transport and you should be good to go.



JonBrave -> RE: Amyone still here for help? (1/26/2015 9:25:22 AM)

Thank you. My apologies for being dumb, I had thought the "2" amphib meant allows 2 units! For my previous invasions, I must have had 4+, without noticing it.

However, I am then left with behaviour I do not understand. I attach my new Save18, at start of turn. Would you be kind enough to try the following:

* I move 1 transport, say from Ac7, to Gc5, to give me 4 at the destination.
* Although I thought this would not be ready to transport till next turn, I find it is useable now. Sure enough, as you say, I can now move McCauley with his 1 infantry from New York to strategically invade Dauphin island in 389/Gc5. That's great, and will do me for now [:)]
* However, if I try to move any of the leaders with 1 infantry from Philadelphia (e.g. Miles, Runyon) to Dauphin Island instead it is still not allowed.
* Why is this?? Compared to McCauley who does work, a leader in Philadelphia has as many movement points and also does have Initiative plus amphib symbol. What is the difference which allows only McCauley to do it? The only thing I can think of is that he is a Naval leader, is this making a difference for amphib/strategic move??

Thanks in advance!

STOP PRESS!
I have just discovered for myself that I need to move a Transport into river Delaware R1, then the units in NY can indeed strategically invade the island! Without that, they can move to the sea area, but not invade. So I'm guessing that without the transport they start out their strategic move by train/road first, and you can only invade from sea (even strategically) if the whole route is sea transport only? OK, yep, just found the relevant confirming this in the manual! This effectively also answers my confusion over naval units being in port rather than actually out in adjacent sea/river area --- clearly being in port does not count as being in river/sea.

If you still fancy loading my save, you might instead comment on my woeful Union position! After years of trying, I am still stuck unable to conquer either Manassas or Paducah; I have tried several times with a large force, but always lose a major/strategic victory, and many units [:(] The CSA maintains at least as many units as I can muster (look at my terrible PPs!). I know you'll say "manoeuvre", believe me I have tried, but getting enough initiative+movement is problematic, and CSA kills me with Reaction Movement from adjacent regions!



ryan1488 -> RE: Amyone still here for help? (1/26/2015 11:36:13 PM)

First thing that I see is the bad army commanders you've got, McDowell and mcclellan should have been replaced a long time ago.

Always build at least 2 depots in enemy territory, cavalry raids can destroy supply in raids and if that puts you under 20 you do not get an initiative bonus.

Always get your area you want to attack scouted at least %90

Always try to take Kentucky before csa does. Paducah can be a very tough nut to crack. The terrain in the east and general lee greatly favor the csa there. The war will be won or lost in the west. You should keep a large army in the east to mainly pin down large csa forces.

If you take one of the territories at the mouth of the Mississippi and station a heavy artillery on it you will shut down all trade stemming from the river. Huge blow to the csa and should be done early in the game.

I'm no pro at the game but those are some of the things that have jumped out at me.



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