Der Newbie: Turn 8 I leik pockets (Full Version)

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Timotheus -> Der Newbie: Turn 8 I leik pockets (1/6/2015 6:05:41 PM)

Das newbie fuhrer sets out to lose Barbarosa (aka lets all laugh at Timo's newbie antics and point out his mistakes)

Hello, mein freunde... especially big hello to any frauleins out there (fat chance with this game, LOL).

This will be a fun and casual AAR where I will play the mighty Slovakian-Hungarian-Romanian Axis as they invade the Soviet Union (wait, am I missing something here?...

...

...

Of course!! The Italians will join us soon, duh! [:'(]).

The emphasis will be on good natured yet weird and offbeat humor, and the aim will to entertain you with my inept play while (hopefully) you will be kind enough to point out any mistakes I have made/any way which I could have done better.

Comments and advice very much welcome.

Game is on normal, everything is 100/100, non random weather is checked, full fog of war is on, movement fow is on, STAVKA is AI controlled.

Aha, reduced blizzard effect is NOT CHECKED (start the panic now [:D]).


On with the show!

Turn 1

This is my 1st turn air doctrine. It worked so well that I left it like that for the rest of my game until, roughly, turn 17 where I put the % required to fly to 50.

[image]local://upfiles/47109/A2C212D33F664EF5981A2484B946B00B.gif[/image]



Timotheus -> RE: Das newbie fuhrer sets out to lose Barbarossa (aka lets point out Timo's mistakes) (1/6/2015 6:07:58 PM)

Pressed the AI button to bomb airfields 3 times.

I think the results were OK.



[image]local://upfiles/47109/5EBE5B4DFCE54C19AD4A6C218EFA5FF8.gif[/image]



Timotheus -> RE: Das newbie fuhrer sets out to lose Barbarossa (aka lets point out Timo's mistakes) (1/6/2015 6:11:56 PM)

AGN

I could never capture Riga. Ever. So advanced moves like naval transport of the L Corps (Polizei motorized plus an inf) is out.

On the other hand it is hard to mess this up TOO much - ports of Liepaja and Ventspils are mine, so no supply for you, STAVKA, in AGN.

Also got bridgeheads across the Daugava and Riga WILL fall next turn.

[image]local://upfiles/47109/974A231499C547D689E2ED7B0E72E9AD.gif[/image]



Timotheus -> RE: Das newbie fuhrer sets out to lose Barbarossa (aka lets point out Timo's mistakes) (1/6/2015 6:16:17 PM)

AGC

Big pocket north of Brest-Litovsk and the the Brest fortress is surrounded.

Our fast movers are motoring to Minsk.

Totally ignoring the swamps of Pripyet Marshes.

[image]local://upfiles/47109/81D34E93B3AC4136886DA65023FD3C9D.gif[/image]



Timotheus -> RE: Das newbie fuhrer sets out to lose Barbarossa (aka lets point out Timo's mistakes) (1/6/2015 6:26:32 PM)

AGS

The historical (muahahahahahaaha) Lvov pocket.

As you can see this game is showing us that the Soviet Union was CLEARLY taking defensive positions on the border to repel the Axis attack and NOT in an offensive posture to do an offensive against Romania. That's why the best Soviet generals and divisions were on the Romanian border in 1941 - obviously defending Odessa was a much more important goal to STAVKA than, say, Smolensk and Moscow axis... you know, the traditional and cool way to invade Russia from the East (hey, worked so well for Nappy, he got into Moskva with no problems using horses, so we with our MkI and MkII panzers will have NO PROBLEMS).


So of course Suvorov, Pleshakow, Gerasimova, Edwards, Solonin et al are all wrong and the American "historians" who cannot see the forest for the trees and are pushing disproven dogmas are right. I really wish some of the new Russian historians got their books published in English to finally put the nail in the coffin of senile dorks like Glantz et al who are stuck defending their indefensible idiotic theories.

Rightie-o!

Back to the game.

Did not take Tarnopol and satisfied myself with a gigantic encirclement of troops on the eastern border.

Masses and masses of troops here, which actually make der fuhrer pee his pants a little (OK, OK - a LOT). Zooming out the map to the maximum does NOT help to make the house painter's mood improve... quite the opposite...


The directive for Barbarossa is as follows:
Destroy the enemy troops east of the Dnepr, this is a war of annihilation.

All geographic and strategic considerations are secondary - capture and destroy as much of the Red Army as we can.

Forwarts, marsch!

[image]local://upfiles/47109/D5A0420595ED42E09E4690E49BB46F27.gif[/image]



Timotheus -> RE: Das newbie fuhrer sets out to lose Barbarossa (aka lets point out Timo's mistakes) (1/6/2015 6:32:02 PM)

Turn 1 ends

Ground losses

There are reports of Soviet monster tanks which our anti-tank panzerjager guys have trouble fighting. In fact, our 37mm anti tank guns' shells just bounce off of them!

In fact, I have reports that a Soviet super heavy tank has basically rolled over our panzerjager AT guns and kept on going, scattering our landser who had no way to fight back.

Such defeatist talk must be quelled - I am sure it is just a few troops losing their nerve, as clearly Germany has the superior weapons systems and the backward "workers' paradise" could not produce such an advanced tank... besides, I am sure our Abwehr would have alerted me to this.

Yup, just a few soldiers losing their nerve and telling stories...




[image]local://upfiles/47109/CFA9B53472B54461B4694B64724DA333.gif[/image]



Timotheus -> RE: Das newbie fuhrer sets out to lose Barbarossa (aka lets point out Timo's mistakes) (1/6/2015 6:33:28 PM)

Turn 1 ends

Air losses (Soviets Air Force is obliterated due to airfield bombing and our units overrunning their airfields)



[image]local://upfiles/47109/278CD16DCD5C4963BA71437F3396483E.gif[/image]



Bamilus -> RE: Das newbie fuhrer sets out to lose Barbarossa (aka lets point out Timo's mistakes) (1/6/2015 8:01:07 PM)

gl Ill be following this. About to start a GC myself. Might do an AAR, haven't decided.



Timotheus -> RE: Das newbie fuhrer sets out to lose Barbarossa (aka lets point out Timo's mistakes) (1/7/2015 1:02:53 AM)

None can point out how I can improve turn 1 nor any mistakes I have made? [:(]

This is the turn that I am sure the experts have played oh, I dunno, a gazillion times as the Axis, so any comments on this are VERY welcome.

Keep in mind that this is a newb AAR, which WILL be read by people who just bought the game (on sale) as well as folks undecided about this little-monster.

So you are not just helping me with my play, you will be helping THEM.



jwolf -> RE: Das newbie fuhrer sets out to lose Barbarossa (aka lets point out Timo's mistakes) (1/7/2015 3:10:53 AM)

I have only a very modest amount of experience myself and my only campaigns were against the AI. For what it's worth, here's my take on your first move.

North and Center: position is OK, a bit short of goals in the center, but what worries me is that the number of pocketed units is not all that great. It looks like you routed a lot of them away. Some of the routed units are still trapped, but many of them, I am guessing, safely retreated well behind the Russian lines.

Pripyat Marsh: Be careful here. I recommend using a few small or weak units to crawl through the swamps and sterilize them. If not, you can get burned by a Russian cav division that breaks into your rear areas.

South: I can't tell if you have officially pocketed the units near Lvov, but they are doomed for sure. I can't see Kovel a bit farther north and that is a key spot to trap a few units and then clear them out, in advance of a drive toward Rovno. Several of your panzer divisions will get cut off -- temporarily, to be sure, but their supply will be badly disrupted as a result. The south is surprisingly difficult compared to center and north: the Soviet units tend to be tougher, terrain is more difficult, and there is just an awful lot of ground to cover with not enough troops.

Be sure to have a clear plan for all 5 of your FBD units. They, not the panzers, are what will win the war.

Oh, BTW, it's der Fuhrer, not das. No wonder your troops suffered losses; your e-Hitler was sulking the whole time. [;)]



Timotheus -> RE: Das newbie fuhrer sets out to lose Barbarossa (aka lets point out Timo's mistakes) (1/7/2015 3:39:17 AM)

This is vs the AI, as the player (me) is definitely a noob and only started the game seriously a few days ago.

Thanks for the comments, jwolf!

"I can't see Kovel a bit farther north and that is a key spot to trap a few units and then clear them out, in advance of a drive toward Rovno."

Aha!

Guess I lucked out, as I just got a panzer unit to lock it down in a ZOC. It's the black dot 1NE hex off the 14-50 Red Panzer stack.

[image]local://upfiles/47109/78A9ED69263846EDB8D2A5D04FA4BA3F.gif[/image]


Good idea on not routing the enemy units but pocketing them, but I figured speed uber alles is the thing on turn 1.


BTW I am already in November 1941 in this game, and doing... OK-ish.... sorta, kinda... but the idea here in this noob AAR is to show me (and any other nooblet) what are my mistakes and what I could have done better per turn, so thanks again for the comments and wisdom.

I will treat this as a learning experience and as a preparation before I tackle a human being in multiplayer.


So, yes, routing too much and then, WORSE, touching the routed units so they routed AWAY from the pockets was a BIG mistake on my turn 1. Well spotted.


"a bit short of goals in the center".
I am all ears. I thought I did great in the Centre - where should my AGC guys be then? I did not want them to be TOO far away from support, but you are saying they should be farther east?

Please elaborate; thanks in advance.

" Several of your panzer divisions will get cut off -- temporarily, to be sure, but their supply will be badly disrupted as a result."

Naw, this is vs AI, although I can see how a human would sacrifice a few units to cutoff the panzer spearheads (which DID happen a LOT in the real Barbarossa, with panzer spearheads guys in tanks making an igla all around defense and hunkering down until resupply by either air or ground pounders reached them.

"Be sure to have a clear plan for all 5 of your FBD units. They, not the panzers, are what will win the war."

This right there.

I think the FBD rail repair guys are THE MOST IMPORTANT units the Axis player has. In fact, I will make a separate post/screen on them (good idea to highlight their importance).

I think I DID mess up the RR guys in my game, btw.

"The south is surprisingly difficult compared to center and north: the Soviet units tend to be tougher, terrain is more difficult, and there is just an awful lot of ground to cover with not enough troops".

The south has the best Soviet units due to their plans for Romania in 1941... the worst terrain has got to be up north by St Petey, though, no? The South is very problematic for the Axis as yes, it has a LOT of ground to cover AND you are doing it with Romanians, mainly (hmmm).

I am sure that I did mess up the pockets (alongside routing too many units on turn 1).

I had trouble in the north with Riga (I even tried save scumming and reloading, but I could NOT take Riga and decided to NOT save scum anymore to make it a more fun game).

Also, I am sure that the Lvov pocket could be much better - I have seen people take Tarnopol, which is a main railroad hub in the South, but there was so much opposition that I decided to take the easier route and bypass it.



Timotheus -> Turn 1 RR Situation (1/7/2015 3:57:37 AM)

Railroad units.

Total cluster****.

Only up north the guys are moving, in the centre and south they are stopped dead by Brest Litovsk and other border defenses.

AGN RR goes up north (of course) the 2 AGC guys are divided, one north of Pripyat, the other south of it... was the plan, but instead BOTH of them are up north! One going way up north...

The AGS RR guy is standing still, stopped dead by the border combat and not doing anything.

Like I said, der (heh) newbie furher is a total nooblet.

[image]local://upfiles/47109/243D2AB661FD442C94ACE670332EAD81.gif[/image]



Gabriel B. -> RE: Das newbie fuhrer sets out to lose Barbarossa (aka lets point out Timo's mistakes) (1/7/2015 6:05:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Timotheus

None can point out how I can improve turn 1 nor any mistakes I have made? [:(]

This is the turn that I am sure the experts have played oh, I dunno, a gazillion times as the Axis, so any comments on this are VERY welcome.

Keep in mind that this is a newb AAR, which WILL be read by people who just bought the game (on sale) as well as folks undecided about this little-monster.

So you are not just helping me with my play, you will be helping THEM.


Agn is ok ,except for riga. use 2 rail rapair units on one track initialy , spliting out in turn 3.


Agc, the armored unit turn behind Byalostock is a mistake, strike north toward Dvinsk instead.
the area between dvinsk and Minsk is lightly defended but you did not exploit it ( use at least two mot div from 3 PzAOK there ).
The 4 infantry divisions from 3 PzAOK must folow the armor ( fight at litle as posible with them and push east . )

9th AOK is keeping too much infantry to contain the northern part byalostock pocket , 3 divisions + 3 sec div is enough.


do not repair the track behind 2 PzAOK ( it cannot keep up with guderian advance ) .
use Vilnius as a suply source for 2 PzAOK not Brest.


More comennts later but for the time being , ags situation is realy bad.




loki100 -> RE: Das newbie fuhrer sets out to lose Barbarossa (aka lets point out Timo's mistakes) (1/7/2015 7:19:56 AM)

not sure how the AI will respond but as a human player if you did that set of moves in the South I'd be able to tie you in knots trying to bring the situation under control.

good trick for learning some of the basics of T1-3 with the Germans is to do those turns left hand vs right hand. Since the Soviet moves are essentially re-active knowing your overall strategy doesn't matter but it'll give you a much better insight into the consequences of the German moves and potential reactions.

one niggle, Stavka is, in Russian, a proper word not an acronym like OKH. So its not capitalised. It sort of translates as tent and refers back the medieval Russian armies where the 'tent of the supreme commander' was marked by large flags so commanders and messangers knew where to go. The Tsar re-invented the title in 1915 so as to sustain the myth that he was braving the dangers of war at the front with his loyal subjects. Stalin recreated the title in 1941 for much the same reason (Stalin at the front was a common theme in Soviet propaganda and posters) and to build continuity so as to stress the patriotic rather than political nature of the war as a defence of Russia not of the Soviet state.



BJP III -> RE: Das newbie fuhrer sets out to lose Barbarossa (aka lets point out Timo's mistakes) (1/7/2015 12:43:09 PM)

One other thing relates to your Air Doctrine. I don't think there is any reason set keep your escort levels so low. You want to minimize your bomber losses, because as they lose a/c, they lose morale, and morale is important in determining whether a particular group will fly. Moreover, fighters seem to be able to fly a lot more missions than bombers for the same amount of fatigue, so you do not need to worry about them getting worn out before the bombers do.



timmyab -> RE: Das newbie fuhrer sets out to lose Barbarosa (1/7/2015 1:03:39 PM)

Hi. I hope you don't mind me posting a map in your AAR but as you were asking I thought it would be the easiest way to compare our first turns and where you should look to improve.
AGN is pretty good. Some people choose to rout out the Soviets here, I don't myself. The same with Riga. Some people try to take the city on turn one, I think it can be ignored. Both these things are debatable.
AGC needs some work. As Gabriel says, it's a mistake to turn 3rd pz group behind the Byalostok pocket, get it East as far as possible. You'll also notice that my infantry are further East. They've gained half a turn already. I leave one corps each from 4th and 9th armies plus sec divisions to clear the Byalostok pocket. Everything else heads east as fast as their legs will carry them.
Brest should either be assaulted turn one or bypassed.
AGS also needs a rethink, it's the most technically challenging part of turn one. Experienced players almost universally send the cavalry division from 24th pz corps to help form the Kovel pocket and most likely it's infantry divisions as well. Most players also send mobile units from 2nd pz group South to help out 1st pz group with it's difficult task. In this case I've sent two divisions and GD regiment from 46th pz corps South.
You should aim to cut off the Soviet units South of Rovno. Don't worry about panzers being isolated on turn one, they carry fuel with them for turn two. You'll need to split some divisions down to form a checkerboard.
Again my infantry have gained half a turn, clear a channel and get them heading East as fast as possible.

See threads on the forum for ideas about rail conversion.

Hope this helps. Obviously there are some technical hurdles to jump before you can get a good turn one, but hopefully this will give you an idea of what can be done.


[image]local://upfiles/36871/63D97602FCC74824AA67189E71D99C16.jpg[/image]



cpt flam -> RE: Das newbie fuhrer sets out to lose Barbarosa (1/7/2015 2:38:55 PM)

and with this one, Rumania join war on turn 2



Timotheus -> RE: Das newbie fuhrer sets out to lose Barbarosa (1/7/2015 5:23:53 PM)

This is great stuff guys, especially the map posted... a picture is worth a thousand words... But everybody elses pointers were great also!

Like I said, I am a nooblet, and I could not even get Tarnopol in turn 1.

AGS is difficult for me (read - impossible) and I think that I left far too much stuff screening Brest Litovsk also.

I did not even consider stacking two RR FBD units together...


Great stuff, keep it going, soon I will post turn 2.

Now, turn 2 flows from the (not 100% optimized) turn 1 but since this is a war game with some luck involved, analyzing tactical situations as they are will help new people (like your truly) better understand the game and what to do/what to not do in a given turn/situation.

Also, Stavka - got it. And, err, "Der(p)" not "Das" [:D]

I think I will leave this for a bit more as Turn 1 is THE MOST IMPORTANT turn for the Axis in this game.

Don't worry, turn 2 will come where you can all be amazed at what NOT to do [;)]


Edit: When and how does Romania join the Axis? I looked in the US_LETTER manual but did not find out. Is there a variation when Romania joins the conflict (apparently it is NOT the same turn every game but has conditions which trigger it; news to me).

Edit 2: Thank You all.



jwolf -> RE: Das newbie fuhrer sets out to lose Barbarosa (1/7/2015 5:58:48 PM)

Normally the Rumanians, and also German 11th army, are activated on turn 3. But they can be set loose a turn early if the Germans link up with Rumanian territory from the north (that is, from Tarnopol to Chernovtsy). This will also unfreeze the Russians in that area as well (I think) but fair is fair.



caliJP -> RE: Das newbie fuhrer sets out to lose Barbarosa (1/7/2015 7:21:08 PM)

Timotheus, previous posts are all good, adding some more:
One general comment is that there are many many details in WITE that if you pay attention to, combined together will make a big difference to your army’s performance. You can’t really learn all of those at ones (at least I could not), so it’s good to play several games against the AI and each time incorporate more of those details that you find on the forum until you fine tune your technique enough. But of course eventually you have to play humans as the AI can only push you so far.

One specific comment: on T1 and next few early turns, one trick I use: I first look at units that are either behind the front line or on the front line with low MPs and I use those to blast the first line of soviet defenders. This means that my higher MP units seating on the front line now can exploit the breaches with maximum MPs. This is cheesy in a way that it takes advantage of the timeline mechanics of the game, but most wargames work that way.

One more specific to T1: I tend to only blast the front line at specific spots where I want to pierce with Panzers. I tend to depopulate the line to the bare minimum in other areas and use the moved units to do the initial blasting (use of technique described above). You only need to keep enough to keep the pocket sealed, which is easy on T1 since the soviet units are very weak. This means often that most or all units seating right on the frontline where I want to pierce have the soviet frontline cleared (either routed or at least out of forts) before they have spent a single MP. They can then way more easily exploit the breach. You don't want to route too many units on T1, better to pocket them. Only exception is I blast all the FZs I can so that the soviet doesn't get a chance to disband them and recycle the elements into other units.

OK one more: turn ON the hex shading that shows hexes that are under your control vs enemy control. This is very useful in figuring out whether your pockets can be broken or not. With some practice, you’ll get a good feel for the possible spacing between units and how many layers of hexes under your control are required to prevent the soviets from breaking the pocket. The left/right hand suggestion is good from that standpoint as it will show you what the soviets can and can’t do. Some rules of thumbs are: 2 hex between units will prevent any units going through as soviet units pretty much run out of MPs as soon as they hit a german ZOC. In free space in 1941, a soviet unit can typically only go 2 hex deep into enemy territory and convert the next hex via it’s ZOC, assuming it starts right at the border. So in some areas where you have gone deep enough, you can keep a pocket sealed with just converted hexes without using any units (careful with that trick, but with some practice you’ll figure it out), so you can use more units to go deeper in enemy territory. This is specially useful the first few 1941 turns when soviet units are sparse, harder to use later.

I hope this helps.



jwolf -> RE: Das newbie fuhrer sets out to lose Barbarosa (1/7/2015 7:56:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: caliJP

One more specific to T1: I tend to only blast the front line at specific spots where I want to pierce with Panzers. I tend to depopulate the line to the bare minimum in other areas and use the moved units to do the initial blasting (use of technique described above). You only need to keep enough to keep the pocket sealed, which is easy on T1 since the soviet units are very weak. This means often that most or all units seating right on the frontline where I want to pierce have the soviet frontline cleared (either routed or at least out of forts) before they have spent a single MP. They can then way more easily exploit the breach. You don't want to route too many units on T1, better to pocket them. Only exception is I blast all the FZs I can so that the soviet doesn't get a chance to disband them and recycle the elements into other units.



This paragraph is good advice and I would recommend to any beginner to practice this technique (or something similar) with AGC in the Road to Moscow scenario. Standard doctrine is to blast a hole 3 hexes wide so that you can exploit through the hole without encountering enemy ZOCs until deep behind the lines. BTW the FZs, if isolated, can't be disbanded, can they? Or rather, what I really mean, if so the elements would not go into the pool, would they? Otherwise a player could do this for any trapped unit which I presume is not possible. Nevertheless, I agree that it's a good idea to take out all the border FZs on turn 1; it's easy to do, simplifies movement, and gets rid of several enemy forts.



Huw Jones -> RE: Das newbie fuhrer sets out to lose Barbarosa (1/8/2015 3:35:31 PM)

I also like to blast small holes, near the airbases on the front line, then after bombing the airbase move a unit up to it, so that it displaces, destroying the damaged aircraft, which can add several hundred dead aircraft to the T1 tally.

If you do it later on in the turn, any units that rout, will mostly rout into the pockets you have created.



Timotheus -> RE: Das newbie fuhrer sets out to lose Barbarosa (1/8/2015 3:55:18 PM)

Some basic newbie advice I will give out here.

When you are attacking, make sure that the Corps HQ is IN RANGE. Corps HQ does not only give out supply at the end of the turn during logistic phase, it also gives out SUPPORT UNITS which help out with the attack. If you have a typical corps, say, three infantry divs, and only want to attack with one, move the HQ to get in range of the attacking one, even if the other ones get out of HQ range.

At the end of the turn ideally you want all units to be in range of their HQ.


The blast a 3 hex wide "highway" is basic advice so that your fast movers - exploitation units, motorized, panzer - do not have to pay a penalty to move through enemy ZOCs. Also good advice.



Now, on with the show.


Turn 2

AGN

Not much action - the emphasis is on speed. Cleared out the Venta-Albava rivers area (left side battles), in which the Soviet infantry divisions and NKVD internal security troops surrendered.

Also cleared out the port of Riga.

The LVI Panzer Corps units (codename "Manly Pink") are already near Pskov, which is an area where the real historical Soviet units AND AI Soviet likes to make a stand.

But there isn't much there...

There is nothing in Estonia (Talinn area) either...

Which begs the question - where is the Soviet army in the north?

The plan for AGN is on speed not on encirclements - Der Newbie Fuhrer would like to get to Leningrad and cut it off totally from the mainland, which includes taking not just the railline into the city but also ports on the east side of Leningrad from which (in game and in history) the Soviets run their supply ships to keep the city (somewhat) supplied.

DNF (Der Newbie Fuhrer aka yours truly) has run air recce but there is NOTHING preventing the run to Leningrad, really no enemy units. Either they are hiding in the forests, my pilots are drunk and/or they are (what's left of them) in Leningrad, which does have some buildup (did not show it in screen capture - trust me on this).

All things look good for DFN in the north, full speed ahead to Lenin's city!

Note: I did say that I do not care for geographical or any other objectives but only wish to pocket as many Soviet units as I can?

I lied.

I can do that, you know, I am DNF (the real house painter did this also, if you read your history books).

NOW I want to destroy the Red Army AND take Leningrad in 1941 to free up the Finns and show the world (and that Georgian failed priest) that DNF means business!



[image]local://upfiles/47109/AF994458AE2347C38F9A939A69627ED5.gif[/image]



Timotheus -> RE: Das newbie fuhrer sets out to lose Barbarosa (1/8/2015 4:28:41 PM)

AGC

The border battles are won. West of river Neman, a mass of Soviet divisions were engaged and utterly destroyed.

They were hanging on a vine, as my panzer troops have run far ahead and their supply and command and control were cut. They were basically cut from their main forces, they could do nothing except wait to be destroyed, which of course is the main aim of Barbarossa.

Duly obliged.

NW of Wilno (Vilnius), the infantry of my 253rd division attacked and to their surprise noticed that they are attacking the 5th tank and 84th mechanized alongside the 23rd rifle divisions.

They have dug in to let the enemy wither on the vine - they are as good as dead, no point in losing German infantry storming dug in tanks with lots of infantry support.

The battles, one after the other "string", you see going from Minsk all the way to halfway to Smolensk, was the enemy heroic 24th Rifle under general Vladimir Borisov. It was bumped into and engaged by my 12th Panzer. Then it was bumped into then engaged by my 7th Panzer of XXXIX Panzer Corps, then bumped again and again and again and again by the 7th Pz... they did NOT break and rout until the sixth battle! These were all hasty attacks...

The aim of DNF was to clear the Minsk-Smolensk rollbahn (main route of advance/supply) but Borisov's division's heroic performance put a wrench in the plans.

To compare, 128 Rifle under Vasily Morozov was hit and routed in one battle (the easternmost battle).

The mass of landsers (foot sloggers) are following my fast movers but the ones who cleared the mass of enemy units on the border are going nowhere, and the ones who were free to move are moving as a blob SW of Minsk.

It will be a while until they catch up... the rate of advance between the panzer/motorized and normal infantry is worrying.

The "MO" you see east of Minsk is MOGILEV, a Soviet city. Directly north of it is Vitebsk and north of THAT is Velikie Luki ("Big Holes", ahh, Russians have a penchant for cool names for their towns).


Velikie Luki is basically where AGN and AGC have their operational boundary in my mind...


East of Vitebsk is Smolensk, a big town, which I guess for prestige reasons Stallin' will want to defend... so if they make a stand, lets hope for a big pocket.

One hex east of Mogilev (remember, the "MO" you see where a Soviet airfield is) the scary, BIG river Dnepr... which my fast movers MUST get to and get some river crossings, because if the Soviets retreat to it and are given time to fortify...

Lets just say that crossing a MAJOR river like that which is defended is a VERY DIFFICULT operation.

The string of battles you see on the bottom was the 16th NKVD Detachment commanded by Pavlov (who in real history was shot by Stalin, who wanted a scapegoat to blame). Good performance by the elite Soviet troops, as they were bumped into, hasty attacked again and again and...

The river which XXIV Panzer dudes (codename "the Blues") have bounced and got across is the Berezina, which is a major river BEFORE the mighty Dnepr (remember, east of Mogilev)...

At this point DNF is crappin' his pantaloons, as not only a Soviet infantry division can resist pressure from a panzer division again and again and again, but a small NKVD detachment can and did the same!

No to mention major rivers (Berezina what... we didn't plan for that... I vaguely, barely considered the Dnepr in the planning!) and look at the godawful light woods which slow the troops a bit also.

Rivers, rivers everywhere...

So the problem is this:
Do we, the mighty Wehrmacht dudes, move as fast as we can to bounce the major rivers, such as the Dnepr, Berezina and whatever else this horrible tank country throws at us, or do we make pockets?

DNF has thought a bit on that and decided... to do BOTH!

Fuhrer prerogative to change his mind (keep in mind this is turn 2 and already rethinking the goals of the operation).

[image]local://upfiles/47109/3CC5D52BC0E94CEC9034EF159116BDD0.gif[/image]



Timotheus -> RE: Das newbie fuhrer sets out to lose Barbarosa (1/8/2015 4:40:47 PM)

AGS

The situation in AGS is excellent, at least DNF thinks so (but what does that nooblet know, eh?).

The Lvov pocket has trapped a ****load of Soviet units, the Lvov pocket was constricted and will be ready for reducing and good ole Soviet units annihilation next turn!

Should not take longer than a turn, then all these ground pounders will be ready to march as fast as they can east.

Sounds like a plan!

16th and 11th Panzer divisions (codename: "The Mighty Reds!") have split up (advanced play by yours truly [:D]) and have trapped some SCARY Soviet units, the 4=14 7th Motorized, 9=28 12th tank (!!!), 212th motorized and 37 tank (9=12 !!).

These... these backward peasants... can make some good tanks...

All this junk was supposed to roll into Romania and take out Ploesti oilfields, fortunately we have prevented that from happening. Without oil... well, it would not be a thousand year reich, more of a 10 year one... or less...

Stallin's best troops are here.

Unfortunately, the price to pay is that AGS fast movers have not moved that fast at all...

And the enemy has bounced off and set up shop on the Zhitomir - Vinnitsa line where I think they are getting ready to make a stand.

So we need to reduce the Lvov pocket and the "east of Lvov scary Soviet units" pocket and then once done so, we might be too late to prevent the Stavka from making a good defensive line at the aforementioned defensive line.

North of Lvov some more odds and ends were pocketed, fortunately this close to the border we can use infantry and free out fast movers to make MORE pockets (like the manly red dudes) farther east.

[image]local://upfiles/47109/5E2CFB7D9E2B47D1896380C9558F1EE9.gif[/image]



Timotheus -> RE: Das newbie fuhrer sets out to lose Barbarosa (1/8/2015 4:45:40 PM)

Turn 2 losses

We have taken out 4000 tanks...

To keep this number in perspective, the mighty Wehrmacht has started this shindig with... 3000 plus change tanks... We have already taken out more Soviet tanks than we have in all German units in the Ostfront...

428,000 plus change Soviet guys taken out - killed, captured, wounded... That's almost half a million and we have just started the fun!

One thing about AGS - do you see big scary rivers here?

Nope.

Should be fun but only if Stallin' does not run... we shall see.





[image]local://upfiles/47109/0A8672DFB05546EFB1296B591BF20707.gif[/image]



Timotheus -> RE: Das newbie fuhrer sets out to lose Barbarosa (1/8/2015 4:47:36 PM)

Turn 2 Railroad - the unappreciated heroes

DNF has no comments on the ineptness of the OKH guidance of his RR troops.



[image]local://upfiles/47109/DEC41A22955C402CB574E5449ADBBD2B.gif[/image]



Timotheus -> RE: Das newbie fuhrer sets out to lose Barbarosa (1/8/2015 4:58:41 PM)

Turn 2 Strategery Thoughts

The aim is still to pocket as much **** as we can and get those Soviet men into POW camps pronto!

But an extra objective is to get Leningrad in 1941.

Another extra objective is to STOP enemy from consolidating and digging on the major river lines, such as the Berezina and Dnepr. Because when that happens, the happy race toward where the sun rises will turn into... WW1. DNF wants to vroom vroom east and bounce and unhinge any major river lines WHILE AT THE SAME TIME pocket as many enemy divisions as he can.

These are somewhat.... mutually exclusive aims. [8|]

Fortunately, in AGN we have already bounced the big and scary Daugava river (running south from Riga) and in AGC the Berezina (which is the major river BEFORE the major river Dnepr a few hexes east of it, whew).

So we should be OK, if, IF, we bounce the Dnepr immediately with our fast movers.

Other than that, there are no major rivers to worry about.

Re: airfields - I just keep them ALL together, 3 per hex, and move the airfield blob all together for ease of play.

Note on the Pripyat marshes - I am just sending in the 1st Cavalry division (yes, Virginia, Germans had cavalry divisions in WW2, in fact they are super useful in the East with its godawful terrain... like the biblical size swamps in the Pripyat marshes).

The cavalry guys will go in and see what's hiding there - I don't want enemy units to burst out of there and cut my railroads later in the game! Extra mosquito repelland have been given to these guys, they should be ok...


Note that there is NO CONTINUOUS FRONT... and that I DON'T CARE.

I am racing east and pocketing as much as I can.

There are HUGE gaps between AGN and AGC and, again, I couldn't care less.

Onward - forvarts ost, brave electronic Wehrmacht dudes!

[image]local://upfiles/47109/AF3F568A400048EA94207DDE2A3A23B7.gif[/image]

Wait a minute...

They still have 6200 working tanks? While we took out 4000 already?

Stallin'... has built a lot of ****.

I will have to talk to the Abwehr dudes and ask to define the word "unprepared", as in "unprepared for modern war" which was the report given to me by Canaris.

Also, the reports about their "super tanks"... were confirmed.

We already took out 105 KV1's, 26 KV2's, and 225 of their T34's tanks... which are scaring our men, to be honest.

Our anti tank guns are ineffective on them, our tank guns are also useless.

We can just try to hit their tracks to immobilize them, and if we get lucky, then bring in an 88mm or have a VERY brave landser put an explosive charge on it...

Unprepared for modern war? Backward peasants?

Then how come their tanks are so much better than ours!



Timotheus -> RE: Das newbie fuhrer sets out to lose Barbarosa (1/8/2015 5:16:33 PM)

Turn 2 The Haul

Since the main goal is to take out as many Soviets as we can, preferably by isolating (pocketing) and then destroying, here is the haul so far.

Pretty good stuff, if I do say so myself.

Note that the Axis units "destroyed" are just some useless AAA units I disbanded in high command HQ.

As a player, I don't think I will ever build a fortified unit. Just useless waste of guns and men.

[image]local://upfiles/47109/D7393A24258143E29F17B7557BFD1836.gif[/image]



jwolf -> RE: Das newbie fuhrer sets out to lose Barbarosa (1/8/2015 5:53:42 PM)

Some thoughts, not necessarily in any logical order:

From north to south, your first 3 FBD routes are OK -- may or may not be the best, but at least reasonable. But WTF are you doing with the one near Brest Litovsk? Your 5th FBD, the one that starts with 11th army (I usually transfer it to AGS) won't get going until turn 3. It looks like you plan to cover the whole southern rail net with just that one FBD? You'll find the south is much more wide open, with more ground to cover than the center and much more than the north. You'll also notice very quickly that the rail lines in the south, particularly near the Black Sea Coast, don't go anywhere near directly east as you would wish. All that is to say that rail repair is a more arduous task in the south, and you should have 2 FBDs operating there.

For the Pripyat marshes, I generally prefer to use security divisions to sweep through there. They are slow, but you don't need them on the front lines whereas that cavalry division can really help right at the lines. I like to move the cav division along with the GD from 2nd Panzer to 6th army and that helps to give a little more mobility to that force. One of your early reinforcements is a motorized division and I like to send that, along with Rumania's panzer division, to 11th army. That way you have a modest threat from mobile units at the north and south edges of AGS, while 1st Panzer can roam and take advantage of pocketing opportunities as they come -- all the while driving east like a madman, of course.

The Russians get a ton of reinforcements in turns 3 and 4. You'll see their new front lines and think all the first turn pockets were for nothing. That's just life on the eastern front.

For a major river crossing, yes that is a real pain as it should be. IMHO you need either infantry support or a massed force of armor to do the job, but infantry is better if possible. It is very difficult to move armor across a contested major river. Further, if you only move a little bit and they are knocked back across the river by the Russians, your retreat losses are terrible. That is probably not a serious risk against the AI but against a human player you definitely need to be careful about that.

Next turn you will start moving the rest of AGS and allied troops. It's very slow going at first: the mountains are a serious obstacle to the Hungarians; and the Rumanians are just S L O W due to their poor morale.

Good luck!



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