Comical and disturbing german beach defense (Full Version)

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ratprince -> Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/14/2015 1:41:47 PM)

Can someone explain to me how to take and upload a screen shot? I need to show this..hehe..

I am on campaign four now and decided to land in Picardy. Suffice to say I prepped the beaches for over a month with literally...LITERALLY..every air frame in England. Every rail head within 150 miles was 100 percent damage....every port the same.. interdiction of 99 on every hex within about 50 miles of the beaches.

I landed with 15 FULL divisions and then one inf regiment. Plus 4 FULL air divisions and 5 regiements or brigades. PLUS all the potential attached amphib support guys like rangers, etc..

I have no realistic way to explain what faced me after the invasion. Every hex was stacked three high in level one and two forts with defense number in the 60 to "x" range and attack number in the 20s and 30s. Seven panzer divisions plus two layers of BIG infantry divisions....

Their response was so big that I was hit the following turn by a stack of 5 panzer divisions and blasted off two beaches...

I just dont get it. I know..I know..play a human. Just not interested in the delay of a human and time it takes. Itd be nice if this could be fixed or invading is simply murderous...

2by3 guys, can you give me some help on how to upload a save? Or email one? I got no response the last time I did it..



Belphegor -> RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/14/2015 2:00:33 PM)

If you want to upload make sure your save file is zipped. Then when posting have a look at the bottom of the edit screen where you're typing text. You should see (bottom left) a click here to upload! link. That will allow you to attach your save to your post



RedLancer -> RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/14/2015 2:34:27 PM)

Saves are best and pre saves even better.

To take a screen shot either use snipping tool that is part of windows or press Print Screen then paste into graphics programme and save as a jpg.

When you post on thread (not quick reply) look at the bottom of  - click file to upload and the checkbox for Embed picture in post.



ratprince -> RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/14/2015 2:37:03 PM)

Ok thanks for the info...Ill give it a shot



Omat -> RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/14/2015 2:40:27 PM)

Hello

1.) Play in "window mode" - not full screen

2.) When you want to take a screenshot press the "print" button on your keyboard

3.) Tab out of WitW and start a programm you like, as windows paint, gimp etc.

4.) paste the sreenshot (or simply press strg + v)

5.) Save the file as .jpg on you pc


When you are in the forum and write a post, you can see on the left side "login" "subject" and so on...also "File". In the row of of "File" you can click on "Click here to upload".

If you do this a new window will open and you can search on your pc for the screenshot. Take it and upload it. Wait a little bit.


Omat




ratprince -> RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/14/2015 2:41:54 PM)

Ok thanks omat. What is "strg v"



Omat -> RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/14/2015 2:44:12 PM)

Hello

Sorry was german. Ctrl = Strg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_key

So Ctrl + v

Omat



KWG -> RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/14/2015 2:51:54 PM)

Do units dig in more the heavier the bombing? Prepping the beaches for over a month is like sending out flyers for a party.



Devast8or -> RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/14/2015 3:00:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KWG

Do units dig in more the heavier the bombing? Prepping the beaches for over a month is like sending out flyers for a party.

This.Prepping an area so heavily is like posting a party on facebook. Somebody will be there, probably more than you would imagine. Without the screenshot its difficult to say anything but digging in within that area sounds like a wise move by the ai especially if all other parts were completely ignored by you. You should have landed somewhere else and surprised him.. :)



ratprince -> RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/14/2015 3:07:56 PM)

No, recon shows the units that are there AFTER the invasion are not the ones there prior. Within about 100 miles.

Its gotta be an AI thing. No human player could move that many units under the air effect. No worries...just gotta hope for a patch or break down and play a human.



Joel Billings -> RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/14/2015 3:27:35 PM)

Please email the autosave at the start of the German turn that you invaded. This will allow us to see the AI reaction. Sorry if I didn't get back to you the last time you sent saves, but we did get these and were able to use them to reduce the warping of AI units out of nearly closed pockets. That fix has been in test for over a week and we expect it to go out as a public beta this week. Saves make all the difference. You can either zip them up and attach them to a post here or email to 2by3@2by3games.com. Thanks.



ratprince -> RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/14/2015 3:52:48 PM)

Thanks Joel, Ill send them

Wasnt being critical at all, just didnt get a response. No worries, Ill send several from the current game prelude to the invasion and the post invasion. Hope it helps



Dante Fierro -> RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/14/2015 4:38:52 PM)

I'm using the A.I. as training. Don't expect real serious game play until I hit the human servers/PBEM. It does however sound somewhat odd your situation although you did advertise a bit.



Devast8or -> RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/14/2015 5:23:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mike mcmann

No, recon shows the units that are there AFTER the invasion are not the ones there prior. Within about 100 miles.

Its gotta be an AI thing. No human player could move that many units under the air effect. No worries...just gotta hope for a patch or break down and play a human.


If you did proper recon and it appeared "empty" then it does sound strange.



Joel Billings -> RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/14/2015 5:39:56 PM)

I'm looking forward to seeing the save. I'm really surprised to hear about so many massive AI reactions to the invasions. We weren't seeing that in our tests, but possibly something changed and wasn't noticed.



Nico165b165 -> RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/14/2015 5:55:06 PM)

Is the AI coded to recognize where the player puts its air effort, and keep units not too far away ?



Joel Billings -> RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/14/2015 7:25:35 PM)

I don't know for sure, but I don't think so.



ratprince -> RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/14/2015 8:04:55 PM)

Just sent you several saves with a lead up showing interdiction and rail damage and recon, then after the invasion.

Let me know what ya think.

Thanks



Joel Billings -> RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/14/2015 9:03:32 PM)

Ok, I took a look and tried to see what I could move to the invasion area versus what the AI did. I was able to get 30 divisions to the front line (or 1 hex from the front). I was able to get another 5 or so divisions within 3-5 hexes. I think the AI got about 38 divisions to he front or 1 hex of the front. I saw at least one specific division that could not have gotten as far as it did given it had to load on rail and then unload during the turn. On the other hand, the units paid a horrible price to get to the beaches through the interdiction. I saw many panzer divisions arriving at the front with just over 50% combat effective TOE where they had started over 90%. Just the act of moving to the front cross country and through interdiction was causing severe attrition.

In even better news, I took your save from the turn of the invasion and ran it using the latest version we have in testing. Only 26 German divisions made it to the front, which is even less than I was able to do. I don't know what changes Gary has made to impact this, but it appears that he's keeping a few more units garrisoning ports and not moving quite as much to the battle area. I don't know if this will continue in future turns or if some other changes he made is preventing some cheat moves, but it was a weaker response. So this will be good news for some of you. On the other hand, it may mean that it's too easy to break out.

Part of the large response in this case is the central location. Also, the 110 help level is probably not hurting as I had lots of MPs to move the units, so infantry units from St. Malo could reach the front.

You need to position some corps HQs off shore as your leader roles are suffering by not having HQs nearby. You have 60k transport being used for follow up divisions but no HQs. After your invasion, you can send 4 amphib HQs back, freeing up some transports to allow you to ship in more units. The Germans may look formidable, but they are weaker than you might think, and if you keep the interdiction going, you should be able to handle them.



scout1 -> RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/15/2015 12:29:45 AM)

does the game auto save at any particular point ? Seems like an auto save at end of turn over a 3 turn sequence would address a lot of the requests



Fallschirmjager -> RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/15/2015 12:45:07 AM)

I hate to bring this up. But I feel that it is a huge issue if the Allies can land 15 divisions in a week. That is pure fantasy. The Allies never had that much shipping at any point in the war and this could be a severe issue that I feel like no one has looked into yet.



ratprince -> RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/15/2015 1:11:22 AM)

Joel - thanks so much for taking a look. I appreciate it. Good to hear it might be toned down a bit. The TOE didnt seem to be that hammered though as the AI. They seemed quite strong. I did notice though when they had reserves commited to a defense, I saw massive caualties before the battle even started. Is that representative of the interdiction? If so, that was working and pretty cool. I took the advice and moved TF back and started gettting freed up transports for more forces. Working ok now and breaking out. I guess the challenging level is helping them a bit because my invasions were much easier the past campaigns on normal. Thanks again

one last thing Joel, what about the instantly erected level one and two forts off the beaches thirty miles? That working as it should? Thats a lot of construction along a hundred mile front line fast...hehe...

Fallshirmjaeger - That may be the historical case. However, if you land with just four or five divisions versus the AI, you will, without a shred of doubt, be insta destroyed.



Fallschirmjager -> RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/15/2015 1:53:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mike mcmann


Fallshirmjaeger - That may be the historical case. However, if you land with just four or five divisions versus the AI, you will, without a shred of doubt, be insta destroyed.


Both issues need to be addressed. The Axis can converge on the beaches way too easily it seems and the Allies have almost 100% more amphibious shipping than they historically had.
In every invasion in the war, the Allies were never able to land double digit divisions in a week span.
But the Axis were never able to push them off a beachhead once landed. Salerno and Anzio were close run but eventually won through.
At the same time, Eisenhower and company would have given up an arm to be able to have the shipping capacity to land 15 divisions in a week. That was never possible.

I feel like WITP handled this really well.
Even in 1945 as the Allies I have to have low troop ship losses and comb every corner of the Pacific for the capacity to land 7 divisions in an invasion of Japan. That feels right and seems historically kosher based on what I read.




Baelfiin -> RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/15/2015 2:26:43 AM)

How many divisions came ashore in Normandy from june 6 to june 13th?

Maybe someone has better info but what I can find:
US: 4th, 90th, 29th 1st, 2nd, 9th, 30th, 2nd Arm.
Canadian: 3rd
British 7th Arm, 50th, 51st, 3rd, 49th, 11th Arm, 15th.
Not including brigade size units.
Not Including the airborne.
16 divisions that I can see, but maybe someone has a better more exact list.



ratprince -> RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/15/2015 2:28:43 AM)

From a quick google that is what I see too. Looks pretty historical actually in a week time frame.... cool



wokelly -> RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/15/2015 5:45:15 AM)

Not to mention were there not channel storms upsetting the building up during the first week? 16 divisions despite that, they probably could have gotten more ashore in calm seas.



Nico165b165 -> RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/15/2015 6:49:09 AM)

Yes but there is a big difference between what could be sent on the beaches on d-day and what could be sent in a week.

Gameplay-wise it's important because only the units landing on the beaches are the only one to take the german counter-attack on the first turn. So both number must be right, not only the global number.

Historically, there was nothing bigger than the 6 division of Overlord. In the game, I remember a player talking about 8 TF x 2 divisions = 16 divisions on d-day. Maybe the allied could have done more than 6, but 16 ??

Then there is the balance between the landings and exploitation the WA can do, and the response the axis can do. Enough work for several patches probably.



paullus99 -> RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/15/2015 9:40:56 AM)

The Allies weren't able to exploit their landing to any great extent - look at how quickly the British beaches were hemmed in by German formations & ultimately how difficult it was for them to push out of the bocage.

There might be some fine-tuning necessary, but if you want an approximation of history, you still need to take into account the 1 week turns.



RedLancer -> RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/15/2015 10:08:04 AM)

This is worth a scan as it details the planning behind D-Day and the major constraints on lift:  http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA-E-XChannel/index.html

If you decide not to launch Anvil-Dragoon then you have more toys to play with.  I stand by my earlier assertion - what did happen is not always the final arbiter on what might have happened or what is possible in game with a dose of hindsight.



Baelfiin -> RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense (1/15/2015 10:34:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nico165

Yes but there is a big difference between what could be sent on the beaches on d-day and what could be sent in a week.

Gameplay-wise it's important because only the units landing on the beaches are the only one to take the german counter-attack on the first turn. So both number must be right, not only the global number.

Historically, there was nothing bigger than the 6 division of Overlord. In the game, I remember a player talking about 8 TF x 2 divisions = 16 divisions on d-day. Maybe the allied could have done more than 6, but 16 ??

Then there is the balance between the landings and exploitation the WA can do, and the response the axis can do. Enough work for several patches probably.

It is a weekly turn for this game. With one day turns you could be a lot more precise on what the allies could land and with what the germans could respond with. Sure there were just 6 on June 6th, but that is just 1/7th of the time involved.



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