RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (Full Version)

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obvert -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/1/2015 8:03:27 AM)

What is the goal for OZ? I know you're saying al but Sydney, but then why cross the LOD at all? Could you not just bomb the industry since he'll have the usual lack of fighters there?




njp72 -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/1/2015 8:34:21 AM)

Yes a very valid question and one I have thought a bit about too.

At this stage my reasoning is as follows (and it may be wrong):

1. I'm interested in Melbourne. With the current Allied orbat he won't be able to defend both Melbourne and Sydney and rationally most players choose Sydney (coming from Victoria I know which city I would choose!)
2. No Melbourne = no future beaufighter or beaufort.
3. Melbourne has 850 light industry and there should be plenty of resources nearby to sustain me.
4. It will force the Americal division and attached elements scheduled to be deployed to Melbourne to be re-deployed stateside?

Probably the most critical factor will be the scoreboard. With just about all of Oz under my control plus the usual territory an Allied player will be forced to act most likely in June/July 42 to undertake offensive action.

With no Hellcats on his carriers and his ASW weak there is a fair chance an Allied player comes to grief.

We have both witnessed/ experienced the frightening Allied firepower of 44/45 in other games and it is my strong belief if you don't hurt him in 42 (especially CVs) it ends in tears- which it is likely to anyway :-)




quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

What is the goal for OZ? I know you're saying al but Sydney, but then why cross the LOD at all? Could you not just bomb the industry since he'll have the usual lack of fighters there?






obvert -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/1/2015 11:52:54 AM)

I know he gets the reinforcement package if you cross. The Spit VIII are the most important element there, and could be used to defend at Sydney.

I like the thinking on taking away the factories for future airframes, but the Allies of course will do fine without these. The most important factor seems to be the last, which is pushing him to react and expose essential high value assets at less than ideal moments (Wildcats). You'l probably have the opportunity to also take out at least some troops before he turtles.

The negatives are fuel and supply consumption and the obvious overextention of the Empire. So you may want to think of ways to save fuel and supply in other areas while attacking in OZ.



pontiouspilot -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/2/2015 4:20:32 AM)

Whatever you do stay away from Bundaberg.....that crappy rum will kill you!!!

What about New Zealand?....has anybody rang that door? It is much easier to acquire initially. It is much smaller to defend. It sits astride Aust/USA convoy routes. As things progress it is at the end of a much longer supply tentacle....but....should the Japanese player ever be "all in" in Aust or NZ anyway?



njp72 -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/2/2015 9:25:06 AM)

Again you make some good points there Obvert.

I will be hitting the enabling targets in the next 7 days and should have an accurate feel if he has completely burrowed into Sydney.

Clearly one of the other major reasons to hit Oz is to destroy land units and devices. If he has retreated back into Sydney and slammed the door, I run the real risk of deploying the entire IJA to Oz only to capture empty towns (yuck).

I suspect I will be able to trap and destroy a division at Melbourne but in the process release approximately 3 plus everything else. Not really good odds.

I daresay like the first game, he might be reinforcing some islands like Diego and near Ceylon which provides more food for thought.........


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

I know he gets the reinforcement package if you cross. The Spit VIII are the most important element there, and could be used to defend at Sydney.

I like the thinking on taking away the factories for future airframes, but the Allies of course will do fine without these. The most important factor seems to be the last, which is pushing him to react and expose essential high value assets at less than ideal moments (Wildcats). You'l probably have the opportunity to also take out at least some troops before he turtles.

The negatives are fuel and supply consumption and the obvious overextention of the Empire. So you may want to think of ways to save fuel and supply in other areas while attacking in OZ.




njp72 -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/2/2015 9:30:56 AM)

No fear there, though I live in Queensland I am not a born and breed Queenslander and that stuff is poison unless you drink it from birth.

I think New Zealand is a bridge to far. I fear an opponent of the quality of Wargmr would just go around and leave you to rot amongst the flightless birds, hot springs and the delightful scenery of the southern islands.

There would be of course worse prison camps :-)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

Whatever you do stay away from Bundaberg.....that crappy rum will kill you!!!

What about New Zealand?....has anybody rang that door? It is much easier to acquire initially. It is much smaller to defend. It sits astride Aust/USA convoy routes. As things progress it is at the end of a much longer supply tentacle....but....should the Japanese player ever be "all in" in Aust or NZ anyway?




njp72 -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/2/2015 9:41:50 AM)

Attack Formation

And here is a snap shot as the armada starts to sort itself out in attack formation.

I'm not really worried about Allied air so the major threat would be surface forces and we have positioned accordingly.

There are strong sub picket lines to the south of the formation and screening surface groups now moving to the front.

Just behind them sits KB. We will start hitting the east coast of Oz in the next 5-7 days.

There are roughly around 4 x divs worth of troops and equip in the amphibs.

[image]local://upfiles/30175/CEAD1E3D4FBF43489C1BC3E9F6E08D82.gif[/image]



setloz -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/2/2015 10:37:14 AM)

Good luck with the invasion. Invading Australia below Brisbane line is debatable because of the emergency reinforcement package (about 1500AV iirc and a lot of planes and devices)but I really hope you succeed!



Lowpe -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/2/2015 12:06:01 PM)

[sm=00000613.gif] Good luck!



JocMeister -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/2/2015 12:24:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: njp72
1. I'm interested in Melbourne. With the current Allied orbat he won't be able to defend both Melbourne and Sydney and rationally most players choose Sydney (coming from Victoria I know which city I would choose!)


Iīm not so sure about that. Both are UH hexes. In my games I always send all the available engineers on OZ straight to Melbourne and Sydney. Then again you are going very early and even with a day 1 commitment forts shouldnīt be more then 3 or possible 4 once you get there!

But those UH hexes are going to be a tough nut to crack no doubt!

Good luck!



obvert -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/2/2015 2:36:16 PM)

Look at it this way. if you cross the LOD you give him a bunch of additional stuff to hinder your goal of making him risk something before 1/43. With more quality troops maybe he even makes a push overland through the Arakan into Burma while your armies are occupied in OZ and in conquering places you skipped like the PI. (Lots of players had good ideas too about how to activate the PI in my game when Nick left it longer than usual, some of which are pretty dangerous if your fleet is in the Southern hemisphere).

Secondly, look at what Mr Kane did against JockMeister with the KB and LBA in destroying Aussie industry, resources and anything else of point value, which could actually reap as many or more VPs than crossing the line. There are NO good fighters in OZ early. It's there for the bombing.



witpqs -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/2/2015 2:43:32 PM)

quote:

There are NO good fighters in OZ early.


As absolute as that statement is, it still feels like an understatement. I've played this game for a decade, and with the historical OOBs when I start a game as Allies I just shake my head in amazement at the air defense situation in Australia.



JocMeister -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/2/2015 4:55:25 PM)

+1 to that.

Even if I had sent every fighter I had to OZ I would have been to no avail. Tom simply swept them out of the sky using LBA Zeroes + the KB. And the allied pools are non existant at the time. Tom needed only 2 days to wreck the entire USAAF and RAAF. And there is virtually NO AA in OZ either early on either.

Very surprised no one has copied Toms opening yet. There is no viable defense short of defeating the KB. And the VPs are gained forever.



ny59giants -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/2/2015 6:23:50 PM)

I did a search and found the "Emergency Reinforcements" the Allies get for WC, NZ, and India, but not OZ. Need Mr Bullwinkle to post them here. Most come in at Cape Town and a few at Aden. The problem will be how the Allied player deploys them so early in the game. Will he try to get them into western Australia or will he try to get them into India and Burma theater to start his counteroffensive there in ealry '42?? There are lots of devices and planes dropped into the mix to make this adventure very hazardous, IMO. But, I'll get my [sm=00000613.gif] ready just in case. [:D]



obvert -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/2/2015 8:59:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I did a search and found the "Emergency Reinforcements" the Allies get for WC, NZ, and India, but not OZ. Need Mr Bullwinkle to post them here. Most come in at Cape Town and a few at Aden. The problem will be how the Allied player deploys them so early in the game. Will he try to get them into western Australia or will he try to get them into India and Burma theater to start his counteroffensive there in ealry '42?? There are lots of devices and planes dropped into the mix to make this adventure very hazardous, IMO. But, I'll get my [sm=00000613.gif] ready just in case. [:D]


I managed to find them. Hard due to the title being about Tasmania! [:)]

Thanks again for doing these Bullwinkle!

Damn. No Spit VIII. It's the Vc instead. Not as impressive in the air dept. The troops are decent though. The Aussie 42 squads mean you can upgrade all divisions quickly in succession.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2617094&mpage=1&key=emergency%2Creinforcements�

Here is the list of units:

Australia invaded! Counter invasion forces released.
Bateson, R.N. reassigned
xAK Charles McCormick arrives at Cristobal
xAK Ganges arrives at Cape Town
AM Kiwi arrives at Auckland
AM Moa arrives at Auckland
44th British Division arrives at Cape Town
2nd British Para Brigade arrives at Cape Town
1st AA Bde arrives at Aden
7th SA Armoured Brigade arrives at Cape Town
9th Australian Division arrives at Aden
Invasion Mobilstn Supply Convoy arrives at Cape Town
27th Rhodesian Brigade arrives at Cape Town
Natal Mtd Rifles Regiment arrives at Cape Town

Here is the package at CT:

(the bottom line which is jumbled reads; Mitchel II x48)



[image]local://upfiles/37283/29A72BBCA0B14B75B9775D45AD2FF27D.jpg[/image]



njp72 -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/3/2015 2:30:46 AM)

Thanks all

A lot of good comments here and they are causing me to re-assess the situation.

As stated I should be in Brisbane in the next few days and Western Australia shortly after that which will reveal a lot about his defensive strategy.

It would make sense for him to forward deploy a number of his assets on the Indian front which may make them vulnerable if I switched the axis of advance suddenly :-)

Just landed at Java and will have that island split in two shortly.

His navy has completely disappeared!



njp72 -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/5/2015 8:28:08 AM)

Oz Attack

Well after a long voyage the first targets are starting to get hit.

At this stage with the element of surprise completely gone we are not triggering the emergency reinforcements yet.

I want to assess the state of his defences and understand his deployments before I make a final decision.

If Wargmr has deployed too far forward we will storm ashore, ignore the strat bombing and take our objectives with cold hard steel :-)



[image]local://upfiles/30175/52FDE71051D949E7A2701BB1BB36C8BF.gif[/image]



njp72 -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/5/2015 9:03:31 AM)

Western Oz

And to ensure there is no respite, we are hitting Western Oz at the same time. Supported by MKB there are multiple amphib taskforces heading towards Perth.

The first taskforce had to stop at Carnarvon due to fuel shortages (whoops) but everything following it (not in picture) is fine.

I suspect Perth will be ours in around a week though I am hoping he has quite a few troops there.

[image]local://upfiles/30175/4E4DE3A38D024CC1A4367EA0CBA7AD3D.gif[/image]



ny59giants -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/5/2015 12:12:04 PM)

Having lost western Australia myself, the key is Kalgoorlie. Do you have any para units to use here?? If not, landing at Esperance and driving north will be the quickest way to isolate Perth and destroy any troops.

In the same game, I lost Brisbane and Port Augusta. Neither triggers Emergency Reinforcements. However, while my opponent was moving a tank rgt, he did move into the wrong row and trigger them without knowing it. Once informed weeks later, I agreed to keep those troops in Cape Town. I ended up with just the bases below the "Line of Death" and eventually was able to get troops in via a very southern route around South Island, NZ.

As Japan, you need to go and take Brisbane to deny the Americans a place for some Australian bound troops from appearing over time. If you do decide to go after the whole continent, Sydney will be the toughest to capture. I would go there first before he can fortify it.



pontiouspilot -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/5/2015 3:51:55 PM)

Oh, one thing to be very wary of is the 2-3 Aussie coastal artillery units. I have moved them to Pt M and Rabaul where they proved deadly. In Rabaul 1 such unit plus 60-70 AV held up loss of Rabaul 5 weeks against a sizable force. I forget where they start the game.



njp72 -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/6/2015 10:56:14 AM)

Thanks some very good advice there.

We will have Brisbane in the next 4-5 days. I have para units getting ready for Kalgoorlie but they won't be set for another 5 days.

I fear everything is now in Sydney and digging in so I am also reviewing some alternative strategies.

I think I will be able to amass enough points by June 42 that will force him to come out and fight. If I can hurt/sink some of his carriers in those battles it will make a big difference in 43/44.

Watching some other games unfold in AARs, if you don't land some heavy blows on the Allies in 42 you are cactus :-)





quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Having lost western Australia myself, the key is Kalgoorlie. Do you have any para units to use here?? If not, landing at Esperance and driving north will be the quickest way to isolate Perth and destroy any troops.

In the same game, I lost Brisbane and Port Augusta. Neither triggers Emergency Reinforcements. However, while my opponent was moving a tank rgt, he did move into the wrong row and trigger them without knowing it. Once informed weeks later, I agreed to keep those troops in Cape Town. I ended up with just the bases below the "Line of Death" and eventually was able to get troops in via a very southern route around South Island, NZ.

As Japan, you need to go and take Brisbane to deny the Americans a place for some Australian bound troops from appearing over time. If you do decide to go after the whole continent, Sydney will be the toughest to capture. I would go there first before he can fortify it.




njp72 -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/6/2015 10:58:05 AM)

Thanks I will keep an eye out for them. I suspect they are down South protecting Melbourne and Sydney by now.
quote:

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

Oh, one thing to be very wary of is the 2-3 Aussie coastal artillery units. I have moved them to Pt M and Rabaul where they proved deadly. In Rabaul 1 such unit plus 60-70 AV held up loss of Rabaul 5 weeks against a sizable force. I forget where they start the game.




Lowpe -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/6/2015 1:11:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: njp72

Watching some other games unfold in AARs, if you don't land some heavy blows on the Allies in 42 you are cactus :-)



About the only game that got pretty far along with no major Allied losses, was Captain Crufts Hive AAR. On purpose. Unfortunately that game stopped just as it was getting very interesting.




njp72 -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/6/2015 7:24:47 PM)


My additional 2cents worth :-)

Allied players are getting far better across the board. The concept of manoeuvre warfare is starting to sink in and Allied players realise you don't have to invade strongpoints, you just move around them.

Allied loses in 44, even heavy ones are largely inconsequential. I believe I have sunk close to 40 CVEs in my first game against Wargmr (largely all in 44) and it hasn't caused any noticeable delay at all.

From a points perspective from Apr 44 onwards, the acceleration of the Allied VP is horrifying. I note a number of the current games the Japanese VP total has a large amount of base points which will evaporate rapidly.

Most games even when players are committed, will struggle to get into 45 let alone 46.





quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: njp72

Watching some other games unfold in AARs, if you don't land some heavy blows on the Allies in 42 you are cactus :-)



About the only game that got pretty far along with no major Allied losses, was Captain Crufts Hive AAR. On purpose. Unfortunately that game stopped just as it was getting very interesting.






njp72 -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/14/2015 11:26:07 AM)

Some updates on the game.

Still moving at a decent pace and progress has been fair. Some recent notable events include:

- A solid torp hit on Lexington near NZ (finally!)

- Letting the majority of a Brit Div amphib TF escape me when my guys ran out of ammo.

The majority of my initial objectives have been seized at low cost and strat bombing of Oz has commenced.




njp72 -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/14/2015 11:32:10 AM)

Score Card

Reasonably happy but having little joy in seeing any of his warships let alone engaging with them :-)



[image]local://upfiles/30175/38C1C01853EE493DA47194E692391E39.gif[/image]



njp72 -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/14/2015 11:41:21 AM)

China

The focus is definitely Northern China which I intend to completely cut off from the rest of the country.

Once Sian, Lanchow etc are secure, I will then re-assess the most viable route into the plains.

The majority of all IJA China based forces are involved in the Northern offensive with very little happening in the South.

Sian will be secured in the next week.

[image]local://upfiles/30175/5F47EC8B66924C94B621AF42CEE31E0C.gif[/image]



JocMeister -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/14/2015 11:43:44 AM)

Looks like you Sian and Lanchow already in the bag! Didnīt your opponent defend the approaches from the East?



njp72 -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/14/2015 11:47:26 AM)

DEI

The campaign is largely complete here. Importantly all oil has been secured with next to no damage.

Wargmr has cleverly positioned forces in the mountains which we will largely seal off and let them whither.

I need these troops elsewhere!

[image]local://upfiles/30175/020AE9EEBA0D4C71A2D63061922AA7B0.gif[/image]



njp72 -> RE: Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr (no wargmr) (2/14/2015 11:53:05 AM)

Hi Joc

He tried but I threw everything including the kitchen sink at this approach and I think time was against him.

As in my previous games, once you get past those mountain hexes the defence just crumbles.

The next real fight will be to get into the plains proper.

cheers

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Looks like you Sian and Lanchow already in the bag! Didnīt your opponent defend the approaches from the East?




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