Monsoon yet again! (Full Version)

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dr.hal -> Monsoon yet again! (1/30/2015 7:21:56 PM)

Another Monsoon question, sorry! I'm struggling to get a feel for the areas of the map that are subject to the Monsoon impact (50% base supply flow). I have done a search of the forum and got a lot of hits, such as:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2601303&mpage=1&key=monsoon%2Cseason�

But in truth this begs more confusion. I'm told that the area of impact is "north" of Mandalay, Assam bases and "east" of Terapo (96/127) which is by Port Moresby. Then I read "all of Thailand." This explanation doesn't make sense to me. Has anyone done a screen capture as to the hexes or bases that are subject to this? I realize there has been a number of threads on this subject, but I am still left scratching my head (and no, it's not dandruff). Hal



witpqs -> RE: Monsoon yet again! (1/30/2015 7:32:28 PM)

This is a quotation that I saved in a text file. I did not think to save attribution with it.
quote:

The monsoon runs from May 15 to Oct 15 and is only for bases that have max draw in Burma and along the India/Burma border.



dr.hal -> RE: Monsoon yet again! (1/30/2015 7:52:09 PM)

Yes I've seen that witpqs, and the dates are spot on, but the 'area' is in contention as I've indicated in my first post. In truth, as all know who have lived or served in the Far East, the monsoons include all of the PI and South East Asia.... So I'm still very confused as to what the game calls the Monsoon Area. Hal



witpqs -> RE: Monsoon yet again! (1/30/2015 8:03:47 PM)

I understood, but that's all I've got. I seem to recall that the real point of the discussion was to establish that bases elsewhere, for example in the Australian Outback, were not subject to the same seasonal restriction. So I know that there is some boundary for the seasonal aspect, and that outside of that area the supply caps are year-round (because the purpose of the monsoon season is to inflict the caps during the monsoon but not the remainder of the year).

Bill or Michael might be able to supply a definitive answer. I can't be sure but it seems this is a tidbit they would be allowed to reveal.



Lowpe -> RE: Monsoon yet again! (1/30/2015 8:15:12 PM)

In the weather section of the base report.

[image]local://upfiles/44178/21988B19EF7F40F28CF905E12651EBCC.jpg[/image]

It occurs to me that the "monsoons" don't show up in the offseason, so perhaps this doesn't help that much.[:(]

Thailand is definitely effected by the monsoon...except for Chumphon and Nakon Si Thammarat.

Pegu and Mergui are also hit by monsoons, but not Toungoo or Tuang Gyi, or Moulmein.



dr.hal -> RE: Monsoon yet again! (1/31/2015 2:13:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

In the weather section of the base report.


I never noticed that before Lowpe, thanks. What port/base was this screen capture taken of and what was the date if you don't mind sharing? Hal



dr.hal -> RE: Monsoon yet again! (2/4/2015 1:42:27 AM)

So to rework this thread, there is no defined boundary for the "monsoon" season? Am I right in thinking that the impact is only on city or base hexes? To me it should impact travel and combat in every hex associated with "the area". I've just really never had a feel for what "the area" is!



witpqs -> RE: Monsoon yet again! (2/4/2015 1:47:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

So to rework this thread, there is no defined boundary for the "monsoon" season? Am I right in thinking that the impact is only on city or base hexes? To me it should impact travel and combat in every hex associated with "the area". I've just really never had a feel for what "the area" is!

I am sure that there is a defined boundary in the code, I just don't know what it is. [:D]



dr.hal -> RE: Monsoon yet again! (2/4/2015 1:13:00 PM)

Thanks witpqs. If anyone else is reading this thread and has a grand campaign game going that is in Monsoon season (15 may to 15 oct) if you could take the time and document those bases/towns/cities that have the indication of being impacted by the monsoon weather, that would be a start. I've only had one campaign reach that far into '42 but didn't think about doing this (current game is in Jan '42 so it will be a while before I can do it). Additionally if anyone knows the impact upon movement or combat, if any, that would be helpful as well (or are we talking only supply impact here?). Inquiring minds want to know! Thanks in advance. Hal



LargeSlowTarget -> RE: Monsoon yet again! (2/4/2015 1:18:31 PM)

You can check the list of bases in the editor - watch out for the checkbox "ME".

[image]local://upfiles/1313/83E4F04C80B84C888FF2C0D30E04B939.jpg[/image]

Edit: A long time ago I did some testing with supply caps and the ME option. During monsoon season the supply cap was halfed. So in the example above, Bangkok would have a supply cap of 1000 x combined airfield/port/fort size during the dry season but only 500 x combined airfield/port/fort size during monsoon season.



crsutton -> RE: Monsoon yet again! (2/4/2015 1:35:42 PM)

A hot button for monsoon affected bases would be very nice.



tiemanjw -> RE: Monsoon yet again! (2/4/2015 2:33:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

So to rework this thread, there is no defined boundary for the "monsoon" season? Am I right in thinking that the impact is only on city or base hexes? To me it should impact travel and combat in every hex associated with "the area". I've just really never had a feel for what "the area" is!

I am sure that there is a defined boundary in the code, I just don't know what it is. [:D]


I could be wrong, but I don't think the monsoon is an area effect. My understanding it is that the only effect is that the supply draw into effected bases is halfed for that part of the year. Units in the field will draw what they need, and bases that don't have caps (Prome, Rangoon, and I think Moulmein) are not affected - making them very useful supply hubs (dump supply by sea into Akyab or Ramree, set the spinners all the way up at Prome / Rangoon and they will suck it in).

I didn't know about the "Monsoon" text in the city. I started looking for it in my game, and noticed it was not present in the central basin bases in Burma (Magwe, Mandalay, etc). So the set of bases that have it is smaller than I would have expected.



Skyros -> RE: Monsoon yet again! (2/4/2015 4:00:31 PM)

This chart may help.Dot basis have a supply of 1,000 until expanded and base names high lighted in tan have no supply cap.



[image]local://upfiles/1408/8A037E5EE56C4C47939622F3D6297F11.jpg[/image]



Skyros -> RE: Monsoon yet again! (2/4/2015 4:00:52 PM)

part two

[image]local://upfiles/1408/CDA9D46A5F704BA0A759CC7B13132298.jpg[/image]



EHansen -> RE: Monsoon yet again! (2/4/2015 5:12:54 PM)

It seems to be dependent on the scenario you are playing. I did a csv extraction for scenario 2 and scenario 28. The lists for ME are quite different.



dr.hal -> RE: Monsoon yet again! (2/4/2015 5:30:01 PM)

Thanks LST, below is the list of all ME (monsoon) sites as listed in the editor:

Locations Subject to Monsoon Impact:

COUNTRY TYPE LOCATION
(base = “dot” location)
THAILAND:
Ayuthia AF 51/61
Bangkok BASE 56/62
Chanthaburi BASE 56/65
Chiang Mai AF 58/53
Nakhorn Ratchasima AF 51/70
Patani BASE 51/73
Pisanuloke AF 58/57
Prachuap Khiri Khan BASE 54/64
Rahaeng AF 58/56
Singora BASE 51/72
Surat Thani BASE 51/68
Ubon AF 62/63
Ubon Thani AF 61/59
Uttaradit base 59/56

BURMA:
Akyab BASE 54/45
Bassein AF 54/52
Bhamo base 63/44
Kalemyo base 59/42
Katha base 61/43
Merqui BASE 53/62
Myitkyina AF 64/42
Pegu BASE 55/53
Ramree Island BASE 54/48
Shwebo AF 59/45
Warazup base 63/41

INDIA:
Chittagong BASE 55/41
Comilla AF 56/39
Cox’s Bazar BASE 54/43
Dacca AF 56/38
Dimapur AF 62/38
Imphal AF 60/40
Jorhat AF 63/38
Kohima AF 61/39
Ledo AF 65/38
Rangpur base 58/34




witpqs -> RE: Monsoon yet again! (2/4/2015 8:22:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tiemanj

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

So to rework this thread, there is no defined boundary for the "monsoon" season? Am I right in thinking that the impact is only on city or base hexes? To me it should impact travel and combat in every hex associated with "the area". I've just really never had a feel for what "the area" is!

I am sure that there is a defined boundary in the code, I just don't know what it is. [:D]


I could be wrong, but I don't think the monsoon is an area effect. My understanding it is that the only effect is that the supply draw into effected bases is halfed for that part of the year. Units in the field will draw what they need, and bases that don't have caps (Prome, Rangoon, and I think Moulmein) are not affected - making them very useful supply hubs (dump supply by sea into Akyab or Ramree, set the spinners all the way up at Prome / Rangoon and they will suck it in).

I didn't know about the "Monsoon" text in the city. I started looking for it in my game, and noticed it was not present in the central basin bases in Burma (Magwe, Mandalay, etc). So the set of bases that have it is smaller than I would have expected.


I didn't mean to imply that it was an area effect per se. AFAIK it affects only bases. LST has shown that there is a data field for (essentially) monsoon effects = yes/no. The code could still make that only applicable within a certain geographic boundary, I just don't know that answer or what the exact boundary is if it exists.



dr.hal -> RE: Monsoon yet again! (2/4/2015 9:12:07 PM)

Looks like your list and mine hold up. My formatting didn't carry over when I cut and pasted. I've attached a text file. Hal



adsoul64 -> RE: Monsoon yet again! (2/5/2015 7:36:30 AM)

Thanks Skyros, both table and notes are very useful.



Symon -> RE: Monsoon yet again! (2/5/2015 5:42:53 PM)

Yes. Monsoon effect (ME) is a base-loaded attribute. It may be edited up the wazoo.

Monsoon falls within the Malarial Zone. The effects are cumulative. All things considered, the ME attribute is a dash of chrome that allows some data flexibility.

Would have been nice to have 'monsoon' coded into hexes, as was malaria, but you can't always get what you want, but if you try sometime, you'll find, you get what you need.[8D]



pontiouspilot -> RE: Monsoon yet again! (2/5/2015 6:48:34 PM)

great discussion...I never realized how poor my grip on reality was!!



MrBlizzard -> RE: Monsoon yet again! (2/7/2015 10:26:28 AM)

Thanks for very interesting explanations on a foggy (to me) subject.
Just one doubt:
What is the "supplies cap"?
Is it the max number of supplies that can be drained by the base in one turn?



dr.hal -> RE: Monsoon yet again! (2/7/2015 2:20:51 PM)

Blizzard, I believe it is the supplies the base can pull or push in a day? It also might impact the amount a base can store, but not sure.

Symon, I also wish the season could have been coded into each land hex of the area. The simple fact is that the monsoons impact a LOT more area than the few hexes that are tagged in the editor. It impacts from the Philippines to India and all places in between. In addition, it impacts all aspects of play (although it is nice to see that air operations ARE subject to limitations during that time) from movement to combat. If one wanted to slow the game down to a more realistic pace, during the monsoon months combat and movement outside of main roads/rail would be very restricted. Hal



witpqs -> RE: Monsoon yet again! (2/7/2015 3:31:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBlizzard

Thanks for very interesting explanations on a foggy (to me) subject.
Just one doubt:
What is the "supplies cap"?
Is it the max number of supplies that can be drained by the base in one turn?


The supply cap is the maximum supply that a base can receive in one day from supply movement (meaning for example that airlifts, sea-lifts, etc. do not count toward the cap).



dr.hal -> RE: Monsoon yet again! (2/7/2015 3:55:56 PM)

Witpqs when you say "receive" does that also mean "pass through"? I indicated "push or pull" meaning that cap limits how many supply points a base can get in a day or push out along a supply line in a day. Thus "X" amount of supplies can "pass through" a base along a supply line given a certain base's "cap". Is that right? Do you see what I mean?



witpqs -> RE: Monsoon yet again! (2/7/2015 4:31:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Witpqs when you say "receive" does that also mean "pass through"? I indicated "push or pull" meaning that cap limits how many supply points a base can get in a day or push out along a supply line in a day. Thus "X" amount of supplies can "pass through" a base along a supply line given a certain base's "cap". Is that right? Do you see what I mean?

As I understand it, they do not model 'passing through'. If a (potential) receiving base (or an LCU) is within range of a (potential) sending base, that base can send supply to that base (or LCU). 'Range' is a function of number of hexes + terrain + roads, et al + hex side ownership + (maybe) hex sides (rivers??) and the cut-off varies by whether that day is for Long Range or Medium Range or Short Range supply pull. And 'Can' does not mean 'will'. They have decision criteria, some of which we know about (but maybe not all details) and maybe some we don't know about. For example, they have told us that if a base does not have 2x monthly need, it will not send supply to other bases, but will send to LCU. If a base is set to 'Stockpile' supply it will not send supply to other bases, but will send to LCU. It is possible that weather plays a role. They have said that some random factor(s) apply, so maybe some particular day when you expect a starving unit to finally get some supply - it won't! And there are losses to supply that is moved (I don't recall what they've told us in the manual or the forums on that).

The cap, so far as they have told us, limits the amount which that base can receive in a day. There is no concept of 'passing through' AFAIK.



dr.hal -> RE: Monsoon yet again! (2/7/2015 5:14:31 PM)

Ok, thanks. And yes there is attrition to supply along the route, the more efficient the route (the higher movement rate), the less attrition.



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