Killing advanced anti-ship missiles (Full Version)

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giantsquid -> Killing advanced anti-ship missiles (2/6/2015 7:51:32 AM)

I played some interesting scenarios (tiger and the dragon and Five Powers) involving chinese Navy as adversaries.

I used some advanced ASM to kill the chinese ships, like indian Brahmos and norwegian NSM. The first is a supersonic missile, running at more that 1500 kntos, while the second is an advanced subsonic with stealth features and terminal maneuvers.

In both cases the probability to hit them of advanced chinese/russian SAM (HQ-10, SA-N-11/17/20 ect) was very high, aroung 60-80%, depending on the cases. Don't you think those design should be more difficult to intercept even by modern systems? Only Brahmos a -20% to hit while the NSM had no modifier at all. I would expect a SAM probability to hit around 20-40% on these difficult targets.

Thanks



Dimitris -> RE: Killing advanced anti-ship missiles (2/6/2015 12:05:08 PM)

Hello,

If possible could you please post the message log for the engagements whose results "surprised" you? By checking the logs we can see if the results are sensible, or if there is any factor we have overlooked or if there is a bug present.

(Logs of past games are stored on the \Logs folder)

Thanks!



giantsquid -> RE: Killing advanced anti-ship missiles (2/6/2015 12:26:59 PM)

Thanks, I didn't know about the log storage. Here is a part of engagement, involving NSM attacking chinese frigates protected by advanced HQ-10.

This game is such a masterpiece, with an amazing attention to details and performances that I'm curios about the theory and calculations.

I have read about the NSM and it sounds like a very advanced weapon. I remember that Harpoon 4 boardgame had many negative modifiers for such a terget (sea skimming stealthy missiles with terminal maneuvers).

I see target speed modifier - OK
No sea skimming and target signature modifier, just - 1%.
No modifier for terminal maneuver.

See below

thanks a lot

Weapon: HQ-10 [FL-3000N] #1202 is attacking Naval Strike Missile (NSM) #1197 with a base PH of 85%. Target speed modifier: -2%. Target signature modifier: -1%. Final PH: 82%. Die Roll: 61 - HIT



Primarchx -> RE: Killing advanced anti-ship missiles (2/6/2015 12:47:28 PM)

In many cases I've had ships that couldn't get a firm radar contact on inbound NSMs until they were within a couple of nms. This made neutralizing them very challenging.



giantsquid -> RE: Killing advanced anti-ship missiles (2/6/2015 2:32:12 PM)

Ok, that makes sense. Should be 2-4 nm with a typical surface search radar, according to Harpoon4 data.
Do you remember which scenario was that? Maybe First contact 2016? I will give it a try.

Thanks

Francesco




Primarchx -> RE: Killing advanced anti-ship missiles (2/6/2015 5:04:03 PM)

Just my own testing scenarios. But the First Contact 2016 has them, as I recall.



giantsquid -> RE: Killing advanced anti-ship missiles (2/7/2015 7:28:32 AM)

OK, tried "First contact 2016". Norwegian NSM attacking russian FFG:

Weapon: SA-N-21c Growler [9M96] #120 is attacking Naval Strike Missile (NSM) #92 with a base PH of 80%. Target speed modifier: 0%. Target signature modifier: -30%. Final PH: 50%. Die Roll: 71 - MISS
This maybe a little optimistic for the russian but makes sense. And, like you said, the missile were detected very late, in the last 5 nm, thanks to their stealth features.

Francesco



Luidzi -> RE: Killing advanced anti-ship missiles (2/7/2015 8:29:20 AM)

Large/supersonic ASM are quite un-stealthy, this makes them easier to hit because of increased radar signature. On the other one they are harder to hit because of increased speed.

IR-guided missiles (HQ-10, RIM-116 and others) have minimal signature penalties even against weapons with low IR detection ranges, while radar-guided missiles suffer from very large signature penalties based on weapon stealth. When comparing radar and IR-guided systems with same parameters, IR will achieve higher Pk.

Terminal manoeuvring is not currently modelled.



Dimitris -> RE: Killing advanced anti-ship missiles (2/7/2015 10:24:39 AM)

Terminal maneuvers for ASCMs are included as new feature on the upcoming v1.07 update. They are broken down to 3 sub-types: Pop-up (e.g. early Harpoon, least reduction effect), zig-zag (e.g. SS-N-22, greater effect) and random spin (e.g. NSM, greatest reduction effect).



giantsquid -> RE: Killing advanced anti-ship missiles (2/7/2015 10:41:08 AM)

Very glad to hear about terminal maneuvers in next upgrade.
Are you going to include waypoints on modern AshM, so you can attack form multiple direction or hiding your bearings?

Luidzi, thanks for the info about SAM. This explains many things.

Francesco



Dimitris -> RE: Killing advanced anti-ship missiles (2/7/2015 11:21:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: giantsquid
Are you going to include waypoints on modern AshM, so you can attack form multiple direction or hiding your bearings?


This is planned for a future release.

Quiz: Which other similar game has this feature?



Primarchx -> RE: Killing advanced anti-ship missiles (2/7/2015 1:36:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

quote:

ORIGINAL: giantsquid
Are you going to include waypoints on modern AshM, so you can attack form multiple direction or hiding your bearings?


This is planned for a future release.

Quiz: Which other similar game has this feature?


The original XCom had alien Blaster Bombs... [:D]



RobotCriminal -> RE: Killing advanced anti-ship missiles (2/7/2015 3:05:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

quote:

ORIGINAL: giantsquid
Are you going to include waypoints on modern AshM, so you can attack form multiple direction or hiding your bearings?


This is planned for a future release.

Quiz: Which other similar game has this feature?


Dangerous waters does, though I'm not sure thats what you were going for.

Do I get a cookie? [:D]



Dimitris -> RE: Killing advanced anti-ship missiles (2/7/2015 5:05:47 PM)

I said similar game. DW is a push-button sim.



Apocal -> RE: Killing advanced anti-ship missiles (2/7/2015 8:34:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

This is planned for a future release.

Quiz: Which other similar game has this feature?


None, as far as I know.



RobotCriminal -> RE: Killing advanced anti-ship missiles (2/7/2015 10:11:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocal


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

This is planned for a future release.

Quiz: Which other similar game has this feature?


None, as far as I know.



Man if this was a trick question I'm crossing him RIGHT THE HELL OFF MY CHRISTMAS CARD LIST. [:@]


[;)]



mikmykWS -> RE: Killing advanced anti-ship missiles (2/7/2015 10:38:25 PM)

Your posts are always kind of angry and have no idea why?

You do realize you should probably at some point show interest or value other than dinging the Devs right?

Mike



JRyan -> RE: Killing advanced anti-ship missiles (2/13/2015 1:04:43 AM)

Fleet Command?


































































[:D]



Apocal -> RE: Killing advanced anti-ship missiles (2/13/2015 1:29:26 AM)

I'm actually really curious if another game had dog-legging missiles as a feature. Maybe some script from Global Command Blue?



giantsquid -> RE: Killing advanced anti-ship missiles (2/15/2015 7:27:40 PM)

I think with the new update it could be possible to steer wire guided torpedoes, right?



falcon2006 -> RE: Killing advanced anti-ship missiles (11/22/2015 1:23:10 AM)

Hi, It's sensible for HQ-10 or RAM to have a high probability of hit with its passive radio frequency homing and dual infrared mode. The modifier like surface clutter is of no use for these missiles.



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