OT - Odd WW2 Facts

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Michael Vail -> OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/17/2015 12:09:31 AM)
Twelve Odd WWII Facts You might enjoy this from Col D. G. Swinford, USMC, Retired and a history buff. You would really have to dig deep to get this kind of ringside seat to history: 1. The first German serviceman killed in WW II was killed by the Japanese (China, 1937), The first American serviceman killed was killed by the Russians (Finland 1940); The highest ranking American killed was Lt Gen Lesley McNair, killed by the US Army Air Corps. 2. The youngest US serviceman was 12 year old: Calvin Graham, USN. He was wounded and given a Dishonorable Discharge for lying about his age. His benefits were later restored by act of Congress. 3. At the time of Pearl Harbor, the top US Navy command was called CINCUS (pronounced 'sink us'); The shoulder patch of the US Army's 45th Infantry division was the swastika. Hitler's private train was named 'Amerika.' All three were soon changed for PR purposes. 4. More US servicemen died in the Air Corps than the Marine Corps. While completing the required 30 missions, an airman's chance of being killed was 71%. 5. Generally speaking, there was no such thing as an average fighter pilot. You were either an ace or a target. For instance, Japanese Ace Hiroyoshi Nishizawa shot down over 80 planes. He died while a passenger on a cargo plane. 6. It was a common practice on fighter planes to load every 5th round with a tracer round to aid in aiming. This was a big mistake. Tracers had different Ballistics so (at long range) if your tracers were hitting the target 80% of your rounds were missing. Worse yet tracers instantly told your enemy he was under fire and from which direction. Worst of all was the practice of loading a string of tracers at the end of the belt to tell you that you were out of ammo. This was definitely not something you wanted to tell the enemy. Units that stopped using tracers saw their success rate nearly double and their loss rate go down. 7. When allied armies reached the Rhine, the first thing men did was pee in it. This was pretty universal from the lowest private to Winston Churchill (who made a big show of it) and Gen. Patton (who had himself photographed in the act). 8. German ME-264 bombers were capable of bombing New York City, but they decided it wasn't worth the effort. 9. German submarine U-1206 was sunk by a malfunctioning toilet. 10. Among the first 'Germans' captured at Normandy were several Koreans. They had been forced to fight for the Japanese Army until they were captured by the Russians and forced to fight for the Russian Army until they were captured by the Germans and forced to fight for the German Army until they were captured by the US Army 11. Following a massive naval bombardment, 35,000 United States and Canadian troops stormed ashore at Kiska, in the Aleutian Islands. 21 troops were killed in the assault on the island... It could have been worse if there had actually been any Japanese on the island. 12. The last marine killed in WW2 was killed by a can of spam. He was on the ground as a POW in Japan when rescue flights dropping food and supplies came over, the package came apart in the air and a stray can of spam hit him and killed him. =============

btd64 -> RE: OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/17/2015 12:31:45 AM)
I have that picture of Patton taking a leak in the Rhine somewhere. I'll try to find it....GP

dr.hal -> RE: OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/17/2015 12:38:40 AM)
Do a selfie!

wdolson -> RE: OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/17/2015 1:49:17 AM)
There is a movie out there about the Koreans forced into the German army. I think it was made in South Korea. Bill

warspite1 -> RE: OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/17/2015 5:24:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Michael Vail Among the first 'Germans' captured at Normandy were several Koreans. They had been forced to fight for the Japanese Army until they were captured by the Russians and forced to fight for the Russian Army until they were captured by the Germans and forced to fight for the German Army until they were captured by the US Army warspite1 Here is a picture of the Yang Kyoungjong, that Anthony Beevor mentions in his one volume history of WWII (and the Wiki entry below): Yang Kyoungjong (March 3, 1920 – April 7, 1992) was a Korean soldier who fought in the Imperial Japanese Army, the Soviet Red Army, and later the German Wehrmacht. In 1938, at the age of 18, Yang was in Manchuria when he was conscripted into the Kwantung Army of the Imperial Japanese Army to fight against the Soviet Union. At the time Korea was ruled by Japan. During the Battles of Khalkhin Gol, he was captured by the Soviet Red Army and sent to a labour camp. Because of the manpower shortages faced by the Soviets in its fight against Nazi Germany, in 1942 he was pressed into fighting in the Red Army along with thousands of other prisoners, and was sent to the European eastern front. In 1943, he was captured by Wehrmacht soldiers in Ukraine during the Third Battle of Kharkov, and was then pressed into fighting for Germany. Yang was sent to Occupied France to serve in a battalion of Soviet prisoners of war known as an "Eastern Battalion", located on the Cotentin peninsula in Normandy, close to Utah Beach. After the D-Day landings in northern France by the Allied forces, Yang was captured by paratroopers of the United States Army in June 1944. The Americans initially believed him to be a Japanese in German uniform, and he was placed in a prisoner-of-war camp in the United Kingdom. At the time, Lieutenant Robert Brewer of the 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne Division, reported that his regiment had captured four Asians in German uniform after the Utah Beach landings, and that initially no one was able to communicate with them. Yang was sent to a prison camp in Britain. Later he was transferred to a camp in the United States. After he was released at the end of the war, he settled in Illinois where he lived until his death in 1992. [image]local://upfiles/28156/07EA0A3553E1402EBCA611EA00ECE2AB.jpg[/image]

m10bob -> RE: OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/17/2015 1:08:20 PM)
The first "German" my dad saw at Omaha beach was what he described as a "Eurasian", who he felt was from Mongolia..

Orm -> RE: OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/17/2015 3:25:00 PM)
Thank you for sharing. [:)]

patrickl -> RE: OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/17/2015 3:26:24 PM)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6RjuNYnA7c The Korean movie "My Way"

traskott -> RE: OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/17/2015 4:11:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wdolson There is a movie out there about the Koreans forced into the German army. I think it was made in South Korea. Bill Do u know the title of the movie? Thanks! [:)]

aspqrz02 -> RE: OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/19/2015 12:18:50 PM)
I'd seriously doubt the one about the Me-264 ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerika_Bomber ... it had serious performance problems that make it unlikely it would have been able to reach its theoretical performance for range.\ In any case, the real contender for the title was the Ju-390 - but, again, the evidence suggests that any range listed was entirely theoretical, with experts suggesting that airframe problems would have made it impossible for the plane to take off with the fuel load required. I suppose some sort of air to air refuelling would have made it a contender ... but only the USAAF had experience with such (and it involved hand pumps and 44 gallon drums in the refuelling plane) in the time period. Urban myth, I'd suggest. Phil

JeffroK -> RE: OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/19/2015 6:36:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aspqrz I'd seriously doubt the one about the Me-264 ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerika_Bomber ... it had serious performance problems that make it unlikely it would have been able to reach its theoretical performance for range.\ In any case, the real contender for the title was the Ju-390 - but, again, the evidence suggests that any range listed was entirely theoretical, with experts suggesting that airframe problems would have made it impossible for the plane to take off with the fuel load required. I suppose some sort of air to air refuelling would have made it a contender ... but only the USAAF had experience with such (and it involved hand pumps and 44 gallon drums in the refuelling plane) in the time period. Urban myth, I'd suggest. Phil I believe that the 390 flew close (50 miles?) of the East Coast but without a bombload. As to the "wasn't worth the effort". 1 sortie and 1 bomb would have seen massive panic of both civilian & military in the USA

Rising-Sun -> RE: OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/19/2015 8:21:50 PM)
The toilet part was funny, how in hell did that happen lol.

aspqrz02 -> RE: OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/19/2015 8:48:47 PM)
Read ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_390#Operational_history ... (you'll need to scroll down a bit) where the allegations of this event are extensively debunked. Another urban myth, in effect, based on the flimsiest non-evidence. Phil

aspqrz02 -> RE: OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/19/2015 8:56:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RisingSun The toilet part was funny, how in hell did that happen lol. It didn't. In that the toilet neither malfunctioned nor sank the sub. What happened was more complex and nuanced - the toilet was a new design high pressure unit that could be flushed while running at depth. However, it was so complex that it required specially trained technicians to operate it [:D] and someone misoperated it. Water flooded into the boat, but did NOT sink it ... it got into the batteries, generating chlorine gas, forcing the boat to the surface where it was spotted by British patrols, bombed, and damaged severely enough that the CO abandoned ship and deliberately scuttled her. Another urban myth, Phil

btd64 -> RE: OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/20/2015 1:29:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dr.hal Do a selfie! HA... Good idea. I just can't get the camera far enough away.[:D]....GP

JeffroK -> RE: OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/20/2015 5:38:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aspqrz Read ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_390#Operational_history ... (you'll need to scroll down a bit) where the allegations of this event are extensively debunked. Another urban myth, in effect, based on the flimsiest non-evidence. Phil Interesting, grew up reading Green's books. But the quoted range is 6030 miles and return NT-Brest is 6644 miles, cupla jerry cans and your'e there!

Rising-Sun -> RE: OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/20/2015 7:26:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aspqrz quote: ORIGINAL: RisingSun The toilet part was funny, how in hell did that happen lol. It didn't. In that the toilet neither malfunctioned nor sank the sub. What happened was more complex and nuanced - the toilet was a new design high pressure unit that could be flushed while running at depth. However, it was so complex that it required specially trained technicians to operate it [:D] and someone misoperated it. Water flooded into the boat, but did NOT sink it ... it got into the batteries, generating chlorine gas, forcing the boat to the surface where it was spotted by British patrols, bombed, and damaged severely enough that the CO abandoned ship and deliberately scuttled her. Another urban myth, Phil Ah least they didn't lose the boat, but sure sound funny though.

wdolson -> RE: OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/20/2015 7:41:43 AM)
The toilet did contribute to the loss of the boat. If the head hadn't flooded, the batteries wouldn't have released chlorine gas, and the boat wouldn't have been forced to the surface in hostile waters. Bill

Rising-Sun -> RE: OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/20/2015 4:44:26 PM)
Just like Russian Submarines in Cold War, they have some serious radiation leak. So this toilet remind me about the same issues.

Shark7 -> RE: OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/20/2015 5:42:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aspqrz quote: ORIGINAL: RisingSun The toilet part was funny, how in hell did that happen lol. It didn't. In that the toilet neither malfunctioned nor sank the sub. What happened was more complex and nuanced - the toilet was a new design high pressure unit that could be flushed while running at depth. However, it was so complex that it required specially trained technicians to operate it [:D] and someone misoperated it. Water flooded into the boat, but did NOT sink it ... it got into the batteries, generating chlorine gas, forcing the boat to the surface where it was spotted by British patrols, bombed, and damaged severely enough that the CO abandoned ship and deliberately scuttled her. Another urban myth, Phil Honestly, the true story here is even less believable than the myth. [X(] Talk about a really unique set of circumstances. Wrong place, wrong time, wrong flush.

HansBolter -> RE: OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/20/2015 8:07:21 PM)
Damn plungers are never at hand when you need them.... Picture included just in case it has a different name in other places:

wdolson -> RE: OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/20/2015 8:27:48 PM)
The Germans did tend to over-engineer things. You know your design is too complex when you need a trained technician to flush the toilet. My SO's father was a forensic crash investigator during WW II. His job was to figure out why planes crashed so causes could be reduced or eliminated down the line. His specialty was engines. He also worked on a project reverse engineering some German crashed aircraft. He was amazed at the extra detail they went to like chrome plating every screw. He said they probably added a hundred pounds or more in chrome. A general rule of thumb in most engineering is the last 10% of quality is going to take 90% of the effort to achieve. American engineering tended to aimed for the 90% that was easy to achieve and left the rest aside. Another example of German over perfection was in a recent article in WW II magazine comparing tank production between Germany, the USSR and the US. The US settled on some tank designs early, made sure quality was fairly good, then mass produced them as quickly as possible. The Russian way was what the article called "calculated shabbiness". Tanks rarely survived for more than a few months and a few hundred miles of driving time, so the Russians economized on the running gear parts. They were only designed to survive about 1500 miles of driving distance before they were worn out. They also weren't too picky about good welds. As long as they didn't leak and weren't a vector for allowing explosive charges into the tank, they didn't care how bad they were. Then there were the Germans who built tanks to the highest specifications up until about mid-1944. They had legions of shop workers and constantly fiddled with the design. Each tank under construction could be a little different as improvements were added piece meal during construction. So I'm not surprised the Germans had such a complex toilet on a sub that it contributed to its loss. Bill

aspqrz02 -> RE: OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/21/2015 12:30:32 PM)
ISTR a movie about the US Submarine service where there were similar problems with high pressure toilet flushing ... and I am fairly certain that there were some fairly specific steps (and dire warnings for not following them EXACTLY) on several of the submarines I saw at various places in the US on my trips there in 2010 and 2014. Maybe not complicated enough to need Toilet Flushing Techs, but evidently fairly complex even so. Phil

aspqrz02 -> RE: OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/21/2015 12:36:45 PM)
See ... http://firehead.net/2009/08/submarine-toilet-flushing-instructions/ ... fairly complex! Phil

rockmedic109 -> RE: OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/22/2015 4:18:45 PM)
I can see now. An older gentleman and his grand son sitting on a swinging chair in front of a house looking over the small but well kept family farm. "Grandpa? What did you do in the war?" "I flushed toilets."

wdolson -> RE: OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/22/2015 8:24:17 PM)
Toilet flushing mate 2nd class Bill

LargeSlowTarget -> RE: OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/23/2015 12:14:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wdolson The Germans did tend to over-engineer things. You know your design is too complex when you need a trained technician to flush the toilet. In a German Wargaming / Naval History forum I once saw a thread with some jingoist boasting about superior quality of German ships, taking the CA Prinz Eugen as an example. Apparently, after the German crew left the Prinz, the US crew taking over had problems keeping the boilers running, most ceased functioning. The stupid reasoning in the thread was that the Americans were unable to cope with superior German Engineering. BS of course. The German cruiser's high-pressure power plant was so complex that it took a bunch of highly trained specialists just to keep it running (German cruisers and DDs with high-pressure power plants were plagued with propulsion problems throughout the war). US power plants had at least equal performance with much higher reliability and being operated by crews being predominantly "civilians in uniform" - undoubtly the better design.

Skyros -> RE: OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/23/2015 4:02:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aspqrz See ... http://firehead.net/2009/08/submarine-toilet-flushing-instructions/ ... fairly complex! Phil Kinda reminds of the scene in 2001 when he has to use the zero G toilet.

wdolson -> RE: OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/23/2015 8:13:19 PM)
The Germans tended to design Ferrari type weapons. When in top running condition, a Ferrari can probably blow the doors off almost any car on the road. However, don't buy one if you want to get to work on time every day. A plain old Chevy or Toyota will spend a heck of a lot less time in the shop and is a lot easier to keep running. The US had the concept of "good enough". It permeated most of American weapons of WW II. The US had some weapons that were well beyond the competition, but most were in the ballpark, but not the best. Especially the weapons used in large quantities like infantry weapons. I hadn't read about the German cruisers, but I'm not surprised. In a head to head on a perfect day, a German heavy cruiser probably was better than a treaty cruiser and probably better than a Baltimore class. However the American cruisers kept going through a marathon run of the fast carriers in 1944/45. I doubt any German ship could have taken the demands the fast carriers put on their escorts and stood up to the wear and tear. Even the Farragut class destroyers which were getting a bit elderly at the beginning of the war and were really too small for extended use in the Pacific kept up with the carriers. The older destroyers were usually put on the outermost layer of the screen with the thought they were the most expendable. This required those destroyers to spend more time at high speed keeping up with the zigs and zags of the formation. When a carrier is doing 20 knots in the center of the formation makes a small turn, the ships on the outside edge of the turn have to cover significantly more ocean than the rest of the formation to keep position. Not long after VJ Day all the surviving Farraguts were brought together and were among the first ships scrapped post war. The last two years of the war wore them out beyond easy repair. But they kept going when they needed to. Bill

warspite1 -> RE: OT - Odd WW2 Facts (2/24/2015 8:21:36 AM)
The problems with the German heavy cruisers in particular was well known - just one example was after Bismarck suffered her loss of oil due to a combination of PoW (initial hit) and Swordfish (dislodging the repairs) Operation Rheinubung was going to be continued with Prinz Eugen alone. But she immediately hit engine problems and had to return home. It was when the Germans copied the "simple" firing mechanism the British used for their torpedoes (from capturing HMS Seal) that the problems with German torpedoes began to ease. wdolson's car analogy is pretty good I think. Let's face it, German engineering can be pretty special - but in times of war - when its all about numbers, you would rather have a lot of reliable Hondas than a good looking but utterly fragile Maserati. EDIT: actually that's not true... in times of war I would rather have something with a great big 88mm barrel attached to it [:)]

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