Enemy at the Gates (Full Version)

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Michael Wermelin -> Enemy at the Gates (4/4/2001 12:46:00 PM)

Yesterday I saw the movie Enemy at the Gates. Have any of you guys seen the movie, if so, what did you think about it? In my opinion it was an ok movie. I'll give it 3.5 in a scale from 1 - 5 I would have liked to see more of the actual battle of Stalingrad, but I guess that had to stand aside for the love theme ;) However, the dirt, the fear, the blood, it was all there.



Panzer Capta -> (4/4/2001 9:26:00 PM)

A terrific movie, i have seen it twice. You might want to check the archive of posts to read numerous opinions of the movie from others in the SPWaW community. As i recall, there were many posts regarding the film. Panzer Captain



JTGEN -> (4/4/2001 10:22:00 PM)

I saw the movie last week. I liked it although there were some inaccuracies like always shooting in the head. But still less than in the Private Ryan. I saw the film in a new multiplex in its opening week and it helped to have huge screen and state of the art sound systems. Wery nicely done surroundings and magnificent start when the guys go to the town over the river. Also shows well why they lost so many men in the war. The tactics sucked. :D



JTGEN -> (4/4/2001 10:22:00 PM)

what on earth happenned to that post



JTGEN -> (4/4/2001 10:24:00 PM)

for a while it showed all the text on the right side of the box with only 4 letters on a row, interesting.



halstein -> (4/4/2001 10:47:00 PM)

I saw it during the weekend. It was OK. The first part was nice, but the later half was almost destroyed by that "romantic" crap. If I had wanted to watch a lovestory, I hadn't gone to see a war-movie. ;) Halstein



Lucullus -> (4/5/2001 12:03:00 AM)

I thought it was an extremely boring film. I almost walked out before it ended. Thank god I only paid five bucks to see it! If I had paid eight, I would really have been mad. I didn't care about the characters or the story. The only good thing about it was the opening scenes were the soldiers crossed the Volga under air and artillery fire and the human wave assault on german positions (without rifles!) I thought that this was realistic. I understand that others may have different opinions. However, I just didn't like it.



U235 -> (4/5/2001 1:28:00 AM)

I thought it was OK. However, I really enjoyed seeing the Stuka's and JU-88's scream through the air. Thanks to modern film technology we can see these aircraft fill the sky. The Pzkw III's looked good, but the camera didn't stay on them long enough for a detailed analisys. Didn't care much for the love-story asspect of the film, but I can guess why the filmakers did it. One, to appeal to female movie goers and two, to try to make it more epic and less of a documentary. So as long as the film wasn't terrible, I hope it does well. Then maybe others will be more inclined to make war movies (hopefully better).



McGib -> (4/5/2001 3:13:00 AM)

I agree with most of you, good movie, better without the romance but still not bad. On the subject of tanks though, when the german soldier was stealing from the dead russians and takes "our hero's" stuff did anyone notice the T-34(if it was a T-34) in the background? I'm sure it was an 85mm and not a 76mm.



David F. Wall -> (4/5/2001 3:54:00 AM)

I thought Ed Harris ran away with the movie, myself, although I acknowledge I'm about the only person who thinks this. DFW



parusski -> (4/5/2001 6:15:00 AM)

I was not please with Enemy at The Gates. The romantic part of the movie took up too much time and was a great distraction. Many of the other people leaving the theatre expressed dissapointment in the movie also. The best part was the cat and mouse game between the snipers. Had the director started out with the same beginning by focusing on the battle for the city itself and slowly narrowed the focus to the battle of two men-then it would have been a great movie. I give it 5 out of 10!



Flashfyre -> (4/5/2001 10:05:00 AM)

Overall, it was a good movie. The plot, based on the real-life duel between the snipers, was a definite change for a war movie. However........ Some discrepancies: 1. The German sniper's name in the movie is wrong. He was SS Colonel Heinz Thorwald, head of the sniper school at Zossen. 2. Vasily discovered Thorwald's hideout by returning to the place 2 of his friends (Morozov and Sheikin) were hit. 3. Danilov, the political officer, was only wounded by Thorwald. 4. Though dramatic, the killing of Thorwald did not happen in the open in the railyard. He was shot by Vasily inside his nest, after being tricked into firing at Kulikov's helmet. There is no reference in Vasily's record of the duel of any love triangle or the little boy Sacha. As a footnote, Russian sources claim that Vasily killed 242 German soldiers by the close of the Stalingrad campaign. He was blinded by an exploding mine shortly thereafter.



WanhaPatu -> (4/6/2001 12:55:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by McGib: On the subject of tanks though, when the german soldier was stealing from the dead russians and takes "our hero's" stuff did anyone notice the T-34(if it was a T-34) in the background? I'm sure it was an 85mm and not a 76mm.
I noticed that one. It was T34/85. According to WaW, 85mm version appeared somewhere in 44 but in the film it was something like december 42 when we saw that tank. God I was happy to notice that 'cause I didn't ever notice that the Tiger in Saving pvt Ryan wasn't really a Tiger :) Other than that, I liked the movie a lot and so did my girlfriend. One of the best movies I've ever seen.



Yogi Yohan -> (4/6/2001 6:58:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Flashfyre: Some discrepancies: 1. The German sniper's name in the movie is wrong. He was SS Colonel Heinz Thorwald, head of the sniper school at Zossen.
According to Anthony Beavor's "Stalingrad" the sniper duel is almost certainly a myth. There is no record of any "Heinz Thorwald" nor of the duel itself from the time. If there had been such a duel, Soviet propaganda would have made a lot of it, but there was nothing.



Rick Borovec -> (4/7/2001 6:43:00 AM)

Hello, Another side of this discussion,
quote:

Originally posted by Yogi Yohan: According to Anthony Beavor's "Stalingrad" the sniper duel is almost certainly a myth. There is no record of any "Heinz Thorwald" nor of the duel itself from the time. If there had been such a duel, Soviet propaganda would have made a lot of it, but there was nothing.
I just watched on program on History Channel, Suicide Mission - Snipers, that reffered to this duel. They claimed it was between a german named Walter Koineg, head of germany's sniper school, and that both the germans and the russians were making a big deal of the sniping going on in Staligrand. In fact Vasily was accompanied by a political officer (Danilov) when he went out to find Koineg so that the event could be recorded for russian propaganda. According to this program, the political officer was shot by Koineg, however Vasily did not see where the shot came from. Vasliy then studied the suspected hiding places and when he had narrowed it down he put a glove on a stick and held it in a position that it could be seen. Koineg shot at it and Vasily spotted the flash and fired into the suspected hiding spot of Koineg and shot him through the face. Anybody else see this show? I have not yet seen the movie to see how this compares, however I am reading the book "Enemy at the Gates" by William Craig. The movie and the book don't appear to have much in common, and I'm only 5 chapters into it, so it remains to be read about how/who/where the sniper duel is addressed. I'll let you know. Boro



Rick Borovec -> (4/7/2001 10:06:00 AM)

I said I would let you know. The correct names and spelling of the two combatants are Vassili Zaitsev, and Major Walter Konings.
quote:

Originally posted by Flashfyre: However........ Some discrepancies: 1. The German sniper's name in the movie is wrong. He was SS Colonel Heinz Thorwald, head of the sniper school at Zossen. 3. Danilov, the political officer, was only wounded by Thorwald. 4. Though dramatic, the killing of Thorwald did not happen in the open in the railyard. He was shot by Vasily inside his nest, after being tricked into firing at Kulikov's helmet. There is no reference in Vasily's record of the duel of any love triangle or the little boy Sacha. As a footnote, Russian sources claim that Vasily killed 242 German soldiers by the close of the Stalingrad campaign. He was blinded by an exploding mine shortly thereafter.
Flashfyre is correct in the above quotes except for the name. The TV show about snipers I reffered to described almost exactly what the book described in referance to the duel between these two warriors. I do not know about the love triangle but Vassili was involved with a russian sniper named Sgt. Tania Chernova. She thought he had died from wounds suffered by the mine expolsion and found out in 1969 that he still lived. The 242 sniper victims that Vassili apparently shot is correct. The book only briefly refers to this sniper duel and deals mainly with the overall battle. I have not finished it yet, but it is so far a great narrative of the battle of Stalingrad. Boro



UnrealAzn -> (4/8/2001 7:49:00 PM)

Great Movie, but alot of unrealistic scenes There is no such thing as a perfect sniper, I mean a head shot at 200 yards while the enemy was jumping in the air. That might require a life time of practice. I do know quite a bit, about firearms... Saving Private Ryan was more realistic, but no war movie is perfect.



Big Bill -> (4/8/2001 8:57:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Chan Sze Chun: Great Movie, but alot of unrealistic scenes There is no such thing as a perfect sniper, I mean a head shot at 200 yards while the enemy was jumping in the air. That might require a life time of practice. I do know quite a bit, about firearms... Saving Private Ryan was more realistic, but no war movie is perfect.
Before I saw the movie ( i was dissapointed) I read the book which I thought was excellent, very different than the movie, well written giving you a sense of bieng there, A subject that I haven't really given much thought to, snipers, even though i've read a lot on Stalingrad. BigBill



jrmerson -> (4/9/2001 8:12:00 AM)

Having watched "Enemies at the Gate" and the German production of "Stalingrad" I will say that "Stalingrad" was, in my oponion, far more realistic. "Enemies" had it's points, such as the river crossing, but they messed up the story as I have read it. There is a book titled "Enemies at the Gate" that is a very good read if you are interested in the topic, and try and find a copy of the movie "Stalingrad" if you can. It has very good battle scenes and it very believable. A "Das Boat" for the army if you will. I personally would like to see some SPWAW scenarios for Stalingrad. Jim Merson



Tommy -> (4/9/2001 9:50:00 PM)

Well ... as long as we are spotting goofs in the movie (which I thought was worth seeing); this scene where the big Russian sniper jumps the gap in the 2nd story stairwell, ahead of Vasily - and gets shot in the head in mid air. Notice that his body stops in mid air and drops straight down. Just like in the Roadrunner cartoons! Sorry folks, that's a violation of the laws of Physics. His momentum would have carried him (dead or alive) onto the stairwell landing. The bullet, coming perpendicular to his motion, would have had no effect on his jumping trajectory. Tommy
quote:

Originally posted by Chan Sze Chun: [B]Great Movie, but alot of unrealistic scenes There is no such thing as a perfect sniper, I mean a head shot at 200 yards while the enemy was jumping in the air. That might require a life time of practice. B]



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