Suggestion: Allow buildup of supply/support in empty airbases

Suggestion: Allow buildup of supply/support in empty airbases (Full Version)

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JocMeister -> Suggestion: Allow buildup of supply/support in empty airbases (3/10/2015 2:47:35 PM)
Could we please get the ability to stock up on supply and actually get support into Air Base units prior to moving AC there? With the current system you end up extremely vulnerable when rebasing to forward positions. Or perhaps automatically add a small amount of support and supply when planes arrive on empty air bases? The current system leaves a lot to be desired. I also doubt it was MO during WW2 to re base planes to new airbases before support, fuel, food and other necessities where in place.

Helpless -> RE: Suggestion: Allow buildup of supply/support in empty airbases (3/10/2015 3:08:38 PM)
This is known issue and I brought it up some time ago. Air bases try to pull required ammo/fuel during maintenance phase of air exec, but air support is something which is pulled only during logistics and could be missing on turn after the re-base.

marion61 -> RE: Suggestion: Allow buildup of supply/support in empty airbases (3/10/2015 3:10:04 PM)
Set the TOE to 100, not auto and they will fill out with some by the time you get there, and priority 4. Make sure your other bases in the Med are set to 3 while they fill out.

Seminole -> RE: Suggestion: Allow buildup of supply/support in empty airbases (3/10/2015 4:26:12 PM)
quote: Set the TOE to 100, not auto and they will fill out with some by the time you get there, and priority 4. Make sure your other bases in the Med are set to 3 while they fill out. I've done everything I think feasible to tweak the logistics dials and there is still tremendous 'friction' in moving these (Air Support) guys where needed, even when pools are there. In terms of priority I would place these over anything else that could draw on my available replacement pool for the depot(s) in question. Not sure if the logistics phase 'sees' it the same way, and if that might truly help here. Maybe I'm just expecting too much too soon? Some historical information: [image]http://i.imgur.com/acBSdlT.jpg[/image] American ALGs completed 7 June An emergency landing strip was constructed of compacted earth at Poupeville. completed 19 June. A.3 —Cardonville — 5000 feet (1500 metres) constructed of Sommerfeldt wire-mesh, extended 24 July. {368th FG(395,396,397) and 370th FG401,402,485)) completed 20 June. A.1 — St. Pierre du Mont — constructed of Sommerfeldt wire-mesh(366th FG(389,390,391)) completed 29 June A.7 — Azeville — constructed of Sommerfeldt wire-mesh,. (365th FG(386,387,388) and 363rd FG(380,381,382)) completed 30 June. A.2 — Criqueville — constructed of Sommerfeldt wire-mesh,(354th FG(353,355,356) and 367th FG(392,393,394)) completed 30 June. A.4 — Deux Jumeaux — 3600 feet (1100 metres) constructed of Sommerfeldt wire-mesh,(48th FG492,493,494)) completed 1 July A.8 — Picauville — constructed of Sommerfeldt wire-mesh,. (405th FG and 142 Wing(604)) completed 2 July A.9 —Le Molay — constructed of Sommerfeldt wire-mesh,. (61st TRG(14,15,33,59)) A.10 — Carentan — constructed of Sommerfeldt wire-mesh, completed 29 June. (50th FG(10,81,313)) completed 2 July A.12 — Lignerolles — constructed of Sommerfeldt wire-mesh,. (362nd FG(377,378,379), 365th FG(386,387,388) and 34 Wing(16)) completed 5 July A.15 — Maupertus — concrete runways repaired and augmented by Sommerfeldt wire-mesh, completed 5 July. (363rd FG(380,381,382) and 142 Wing (604)) completed 6 July A.5 — Chappelle — constructed of Sommerfeldt wire-mesh, completed 6 July. (404th FG(506,507,508)) completed 15 July A.22 — Colleville-sur-Mer — constructed of tar paper surface for transport aircraft, completed 15 July. completed 16 July A.14 — Cretteville — constructed of Sommerfeldt wire-mesh,. (358th FG(365,366,367) and 406th FG(512,513,514)) completed 17 July A.16 — Bruchville — constructed of Sommerfeldt wire-mesh, completed 17 July. (36th FG(22,23,53)) completed 22 July A.6 — Beuzeville — constructed of Sommerfeldt wire-mesh,. (371st FG(404,405,406) and 367th FG(392,393,394)) completed 31 July A.13 — Tour en Bessin — constructed of Sommerfeldt wire-mesh,. (373rd FG(410,411,412) and 406th FG(512,513,514)) completed 6 August A.11 — St. Lambert — constructed of Sommerfeldt wire-mesh,. (474th FG(428,429,430)) British ALGs completed 10 June B.1 — Asnelles — emergency landing strip (600 metres) constructed of compacted earth. completed 10 June B.2 — Bazenville — 1700 metres long, 40 metres wide, Sommerfeldt wire-mesh. Runway 246. (127 Wing (403,416,421,443)) completed 10 June B.3 — St. Croix-sur-Mer — 1200 metres long, 40 metres wide, Sommerfeldt wire-mesh. Runway 230. (144 Wing(441,442,443), 35 Recce Wing(2,268), 136 Wing(263) and 146 Wing(193,197,257,266)) completed 10 June B.10 — Plumetot — 1200 metres long, 40 metres wide, Sommerfeldt wire-mesh. Runway 246. (35 Recce Wing(2,4,268), 129 Wing(184),134 Wing(310,312,313) and 131 Wing(302,308,317)) completed 15 June B.4 — Beny-sur-Mer — 1200 metres long, 40 metres wide, Sommerfeldt wire-mesh. Runway 183. (126 Wing(401,411,412,442), 35 Recce Wing(2, 4, 268)) completed 15 June B.5 —le Fresne-Camilly — 1700 metres long, 40 metres wide, Sommerfeldt wire-mesh. (129 Wing(184), 121 Wing(174,175,245) and 222 Squadron) completed 15 June B.6 — Coulombs — 1700 metres long, 40 metres wide, Sommerfeldt wire-mesh, dispersal for 57. Runway 255. (124 Wing(181,182,247), 137 Squadron, 142 Wing(264)) B.7 — Rucqueville — 1200 metres long, 40 metres wide, Sommerfeldt wire-mesh. (122 Wing(19,65,122), 123 Wing(198,609), 136 Wing(164,183) and 160 Squadron) completed 21 June B.11 — Longues-sur-Mer — 1200 metres long, 40 metres wide, compacted earth. Runway 131. (125 Wing(132,602,453,441)) completed 22 June B.8 —Sommervieu — 1200 metres long, 40 metres wide, Sommerfeldt wire-mesh. Runway 279. (39 Recce Wing(400,168), 74 Squadron, 145 Wing(329,340,341)) completed 22 June B.9 — Lantheuil — 1200 metres long, 40 metres wide, Sommerfeldt wire-mesh. Runway 247. (143 Wing(438,439,440)) completed 5 July B.15 — Ryes — 1200 metres long, 40 metres wide, compacted earth. (re-arm and re-supply strip) completed 7 July B.14 — Amblie — 1200 metres long, 40 metres wide, compacted earth. Runway 263. (re-arm aaand re-supply strip) completed 18 July B.12 — Ellon — 1200 metres long, 40 metres wide, Sommerfeldt wire-mesh. Runway 227. (122 Wing(19,65,122)) completed 25 July B.18 — Cristot — 1200 metres long, 40 metres wide, compacted earth. Runway 110. completed 6 August B.19 — Lingevres — 1700 metres long, 40 metres wide, compacted earth. Runway 260. (125 Wing(132,602,453)) completed 7 August B.16 — Villons-les-Buissons — 1700 metres long, 40 metres wide, Sommerfeldt wire-mesh plus steel plates. Runway 306. (132 Wing(127,66,331,332)) completed 8 August B.17 — Carpiquet — 1700 metres long, 40 metres wide, steel plates. Runway 237. Plus cement 1800 metre runway 130. (135 Wing(349,485) and 148 Wing(29,91,409)) completed 8 August B.21 — Ste-Honorine-de-Ducy — 1700 metres long, 40 metres wide, Sommerfeldt wire-mesh. Runway 230. (39 Recce Wing(400,414,430,168))

warshipbuilder -> RE: Suggestion: Allow buildup of supply/support in empty airbases (3/10/2015 5:01:11 PM)
This is quite interesting, where did you get it?

JocMeister -> RE: Suggestion: Allow buildup of supply/support in empty airbases (3/10/2015 5:15:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Helpless This is known issue and I brought it up some time ago. Air bases try to pull required ammo/fuel during maintenance phase of air exec, but air support is something which is pulled only during logistics and could be missing on turn after the re-base. Is there any chance of seeing a workaround or is this something we will have to learn and deal with as good as possible? quote: ORIGINAL: meklore61 Set the TOE to 100, not auto and they will fill out with some by the time you get there, and priority 4. Make sure your other bases in the Med are set to 3 while they fill out. I´ve tried everything you suggested but I still can´t get it to work satisfactory.

marion61 -> RE: Suggestion: Allow buildup of supply/support in empty airbases (3/10/2015 6:59:08 PM)
Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. I'm having the same problem in my game with Qball. The new airfields in France refuse to go above 5 toe, so most of the planes on those bases are in reserve. Most of the airfields have been on the rail net for a few turns now and still sitting at 5 toe. They are set to 100. I may set my bombers bases down some to see if that won't loosen up some air support.

RedLancer -> RE: Suggestion: Allow buildup of supply/support in empty airbases (3/10/2015 7:13:42 PM)
I think in our discussions we need to differentiate between what happens when a new airbase is created as part of an invasion, the process for activating a captured empty airbase during an advance and expanding airbases. The system is different. Remember you need a named location to create an air base. Seminole's info is gold dust. The systems have improved so much since alpha that I am probably guilty of missing problems. I'll do what is said on my tin as Test Co-ord - if you want it improved tests, observations and saves are the way ahead.

JocMeister -> RE: Suggestion: Allow buildup of supply/support in empty airbases (3/10/2015 7:37:36 PM)
What kind of saves would you be looking for? Ones where you can´t get support to the base? I was assuming the actual process of getting supply/support to the base was the same as long as the Air base is in place?

marion61 -> RE: Suggestion: Allow buildup of supply/support in empty airbases (3/10/2015 8:10:18 PM)
It's a server game with Qball if you want to look at it Red. It's been several turns and those bases in France have rail to them and have had rail to them, but they sit at 5 TOE, and have for at least 3 turns now. Tell me what you need?

RedLancer -> RE: Suggestion: Allow buildup of supply/support in empty airbases (3/10/2015 8:34:15 PM)
Unfortunately I have no access to server games. In terms of saves that help it is primarily a repeatable save that demonstrates a point of view that you have an issue with. I posted the following blue text in tester forum in June last year and it sort of demonstrates my point and is relevant to this discussion. You'll notice things have moved on. In each case I repeated turns to check the behaviour and provided saves to prove my point. I've been doing some tests on how Airbase support units (mis)behave and have some observations and suggestions to improve the system. Some may be bugs but I'm not sure. Observation: Amphib HQs create Lvl 2 Airbases but the support unit has a TOE of 1. You'd think that if you'd gone to the bother of building a runway you'd have brought the ground staff ready to fly in the first aircraft. Suggestion: Amphib HQ created Airbases have a TOE of 100 and TOE% to AUTO to allow immediate aircraft receipt. Observation: You can't set an AB TOE to 0 in order to deactivate it - the lowest possible setting is 1. In tests the result is that the TOE goes over Turns:100-37-27-25-25-25 and stays at 25. I acknowledge that AUTO (-1) provides this function but why can't I micromanage it with functionality that appears to be present? Suggestion: Allow a TOE of 0 or set 1 to clear the airbase completely within 2 turns. Observation: If I set an empty AB to AUTO it still has support elements after 6 turns (100/30/14/8/7/6)- you'd think during WW2 they'd pack up a bit quicker. Suggestion: If an empty AB has a TOE <10 it should revert to 0 in that replacement phase. (i.e. 4 weeks to empty seems reasonable). Observation. I set an empty AB to 100% TOE to prepare to receive aircraft. It seems a complete lottery what they get - those already at 100 lose elements and those with none get something. Over turns it fluctuates but the result tends towards 50 rather than 100. Suggestion. If I set the AB TOE to 100% that is what I'd like to build towards.

Baelfiin -> RE: Suggestion: Allow buildup of supply/support in empty airbases (3/10/2015 9:42:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meklore61 It's a server game with Qball if you want to look at it Red. It's been several turns and those bases in France have rail to them and have had rail to them, but they sit at 5 TOE, and have for at least 3 turns now. Tell me what you need? Are they british airbases?

marion61 -> RE: Suggestion: Allow buildup of supply/support in empty airbases (3/10/2015 10:07:30 PM)
When I play the AI I will check to see if it happens. I didn't notice it till just the past few turns with Qball. I'll keep the saves and send them to you, because I'm not sure what else to do to get air support there. And yes, they are british bases. It has most of 2nd RAF in reserve and it's been like that for at least 3 turns now.

carlkay58 -> RE: Suggestion: Allow buildup of supply/support in empty airbases (3/10/2015 10:35:39 PM)
Some tips for new airbases: 1) Create a depot in the hex before transferring aircraft there. If there is no supply at the airbase they pull supply from a depot in the same hex. This works well for non-invasion airbases. 2) Use transports to fly supplies into the new airbase hex. 3) The manual setting of 100 has been discussed above. 4) Fly Air Superiority over the bases that are being transferred to. 5) I tend to use aircraft out of the National Reserve for initial invasion bases. They can't fly the turn they arrive anyways so you don't lose that turn's air mileage. With Air Superiority flying over them they tend to at least have a chance to defend themselves. 6) Stack an HQ with AAA SUs in the same hex. This is extremely easy to do with airbases that are near the front lines and especially beach heads. It at least gives you some sort of defense. 7) Make sure you transfer Night Fighters as some of the air groups so you can defend against night bombing.

Seminole -> RE: Suggestion: Allow buildup of supply/support in empty airbases (3/10/2015 11:09:07 PM)
quote: I think in our discussions we need to differentiate between what happens when a new airbase is created as part of an invasion, the process for activating a captured empty airbase during an advance and expanding airbases. The system is different. Remember you need a named location to create an air base. Seminole's info is gold dust. Let's set aside airbase expansion, that I believe has other dependencies (engineers) that in turn have dependencies (more urgent priorities in their HQ command range driven by the variable of enemy targeting). I have had some logistical stumbles I can't explain with getting Air Support units into the TOE of captured bases AND the bases created by an invasion. I included the info about air bases established post D-Day for historical reference to this very issue. I think we can safely assume if those bases were operational for those squadrons someone thought to send the guys who remove the wheel chocks and load the bombs. So if I see historically that D-Day +15 there are that many fighter and recce wings based ashore, is it a safe assumption they're not parked in reserve? quote: The systems have improved so much since alpha that I am probably guilty of missing problems. I'll do what is said on my tin as Test Co-ord - if you want it improved tests, observations and saves are the way ahead. The Heel is a good place to test bed this (providing both kinds of air bases), and I think I have a save against the AI that will allow me to run some tests and provide you more detail.

Smirfy -> RE: Suggestion: Allow buildup of supply/support in empty airbases (3/10/2015 11:43:13 PM)
Like I said in another thread its all very convoluted and almost like alchemy to get an airbase to function whether temporary or captured. I just think you should have units which you can move to airfields and then just hit convert it appears as part of the airfield and bingo your airfield is ready to run instead of the present place holders. With week long turns presently it makes little sense. By 1943 the Allied Air Staff were incredibly effiecent.

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