USS Independence found 'amazingly intact' on Pacific ocean floor (Full Version)

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Reg -> USS Independence found 'amazingly intact' on Pacific ocean floor (4/17/2015 11:11:05 AM)


WWII aircraft carrier USS Independence found 'amazingly intact' after 60 years on Pacific ocean floor

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-17/uss-independence-wwii-aircraft-carrier-found-in-pacific/6400012



dr.hal -> RE: USS Independence found 'amazingly intact' on Pacific ocean floor (4/17/2015 12:52:55 PM)

They make no mention of surveying the ship for radiation as a result of the test. I find it amazing that it was towed BACK to the US after the test... Why was it not left at the test site to act as an artificial reef there?



tiemanjw -> RE: USS Independence found 'amazingly intact' on Pacific ocean floor (4/17/2015 5:09:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

They make no mention of surveying the ship for radiation as a result of the test. I find it amazing that it was towed BACK to the US after the test... Why was it not left at the test site to act as an artificial reef there?



I read (can't remember where, sorry), that it was brought back to the states and used to "study decontamination". Your guess is as good as mine as to what that entails.



dr.hal -> RE: USS Independence found 'amazingly intact' on Pacific ocean floor (4/17/2015 7:22:21 PM)

Thanks for the feedback tiemanj, that makes perfectly good sense and is a good use of the ship after the blast... Hal



wegman58 -> RE: USS Independence found 'amazingly intact' on Pacific ocean floor (4/18/2015 1:08:04 PM)

The 'artificial reef'/diving opportunity is a modern concept NOT in vogue right after WW II. And you probably do NOT want to dive where they set off early atomic bombs. Modern thermonuclear bombs have as little uranium as you need to make the first bang and hydrogen isotopes to make the really BIG kaboom. Back then it was all Uranium or Plutonium - MUCH nastier.



dr.hal -> RE: USS Independence found 'amazingly intact' on Pacific ocean floor (4/18/2015 2:08:19 PM)

I agree wegman58, modern diving was not done in the 1940s. However radiation contamination in a number of forms lasts a LONG time and presents a long term danger. Although the Independence was not sunk where the blast took place (remember it was towed back to the US) the ship itself may still present a concern. The impact of radiation, although well documented, is still being revised and not fully understood. During my almost decade of service with nuclear capable systems in the US Navy, the lifetime dose of "rads" that one could tolerate was adjusted downward a number of times during that period. Clearly we are still learning about the impact of this "fall out". I sure hope someone is aware of the dangers and is keeping an eye on it in light of the developing understanding of radiation.



wdolson -> RE: USS Independence found 'amazingly intact' on Pacific ocean floor (4/18/2015 10:06:17 PM)

Diving is a big tourist attraction in the Bikini Atoll today: https://www.scubadoctor.com.au/article-uss-saratoga.htm

A B-17 used in a bomb test in Nevada now flies around the country every year with the Collins Foundation. Nagasaki and Hiroshima are occupied cities today.

The radiation from a nuke drops off pretty sharply in a few months. There is some unused plutonium and uranium, but most of it gets sprayed well away from ground zero and since both are very dense, they will tend to sink in the water column.

I think above ground nuclear tests were a very bad idea, a lot of people got radiated from fallout and it has put byproducts of those tests in the environment. I forget what it is, but there is a particular isotope of something that is found in all plants grown after 1945 and it essentially didn't exist before then. It isn't radioactive, but it isn't good for you chemically either.

All radioactivity is not the same either. There are alpha particles, beta particles, free neutrons, and gamma rays. Alpha particles are probably the most common radioactive particles (in most cases), but they are very large compared to the others. They will cause cancer if they get in you, but you have to ingest them. They bounce off your skin. Beta particles are worse, but neutrons and gamma rays are the worse. Lead is used to stop beta and neutron particles, very little will stop gamma rays. All you can hope is the gamma ray gets absorbed by something before it get to you, which is what our atmosphere does.

How nuclear radioactivity works is a very complex subject. I've studied it some, but I probably got some details wrong in my off the cuff description.

After being in the water for 60 years with all the storms that have blown through, etc. the wrecks from the tests aren't very radioactive today. You probably wouldn't want to raise one and live on it, but a short exposure on a dive probably isn't going to significantly raise your cancer risk any more than some of the things you ate in the last week.

Bill



JeffroK -> RE: USS Independence found 'amazingly intact' on Pacific ocean floor (4/18/2015 11:21:42 PM)

If using it as a dive site was a bad idea, tying it up at a San Francisco wharf was probably worse.

Good to see it found, I hope its left alone.



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