How the AI Upgrades designs...? (Full Version)

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kmunoz -> How the AI Upgrades designs...? (4/23/2015 11:41:18 PM)

Is there an identifiable pattern to how the AI does upgrades to ship designs, if you automate it? Presumably they upgrade to the latest module of each type (blasters, shields, etc.), but do they also add systems that previously weren't found on the ship? Do they add modules that are "suggested" in the manual upgrade screen (like shields, hyperdrives, troop modules, etc.)?



PsyKoSnake -> RE: How the AI Upgrades designs...? (4/24/2015 12:28:10 AM)




quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

quote:

ORIGINAL: OJsDad

Hello. 

   I got the AI Extended mod a few days ago.  I'm on my second game (after having got destroyed by the Naxxilian).  I'm playing Extreme difficulty.  One thing I've noticed in both games is that the AI doesn't seem to be doing a good job with ship design.  In my first game, everything was equipped with missiles only.  In the second game, everything is equipped with gravitic weapons only.  In both game, I had researched fighter bays, but the AI seems to ignore these.  Nor does I seem to build balanced weapon load outs.

Am I missing something.

Thanks

OJsDad


The AI for each race has designs focused on particular weapons (and other factors) and research orders that align with that. Those choices are stated in the updated help files for each race. If you play with a race focused on Missiles, manually research something else while automating the ship designs (which are still focused on Missiles) then there will be a misalignment. This post from a few pages ago should help explain why that was needed and there are some ideas if you want to change it more to your liking.





Maybe it will answer some of your question



kmunoz -> RE: How the AI Upgrades designs...? (4/24/2015 12:30:45 AM)

That does help, thanks!



deciplex -> RE: How the AI Upgrades designs...? (4/24/2015 1:58:44 AM)

Does changing research priorities in the empire settings screen change how the AI will design ships as well? So for example I switch the research priority from beams to rail gun, and subsequent designs will prefer rail guns to beam weapons.



Aeson -> RE: How the AI Upgrades designs...? (4/24/2015 3:32:53 AM)

quote:

Does changing research priorities in the empire settings screen change how the AI will design ships as well? So for example I switch the research priority from beams to rail gun, and subsequent designs will prefer rail guns to beam weapons.

I don't believe so, but I'm not sure as I generally don't allow the computer to handle ship design. The design templates call for certain numbers of weapons in the categories of ion cannons, ion pulses, beams, area weapons, bombardment weapons, missiles, phasers, rail guns, super beam weapons, torpedoes, tractor beams, gravity beams, and area gravity weapons. I believe that the computer will mostly stay within these categories, so you could have a design reliant on pulse blasters even when you have top of the line rail guns if your design template calls for beams rather than guns and you have no better blasters.



mordachai -> RE: How the AI Upgrades designs...? (4/24/2015 4:31:07 AM)

Also of note: sadly, once you've started a game, the designTemplates are not read a second time. So if you correct a mistake in one of those files, you will not get to observe the fruit of your efforts until the next game you start. This is unfortunate, as it makes it ... cumbersome ... to hone your designs.



deciplex -> RE: How the AI Upgrades designs...? (4/24/2015 12:56:18 PM)

Actually, it seems like the AI will look at the research priorities when deciding how to outfit ships. I had an early game as the humans, who are beams and missiles by default so the starting destroyer design is with those two weapon types, i.e. pulse blaster and seeking missile. I turned off all manual upgrades and waited until energy collectors were researched. I saved the game, set the research priority from missiles and beams like before, to missiles and rail guns, then turned on auto-upgrades for destroyers. When the AI designed a new ship to add the energy collectors, it had swapped out the pulse blasters for long range guns. I reloaded the save, kept the research priority as beams and missiles, turned on auto-upgrades, and this time I got a destroyer design with the blasters and missiles. Seems pretty conclusive.

This was with auto-research set to OFF, mind you.



Bingeling -> RE: How the AI Upgrades designs...? (4/24/2015 3:39:02 PM)

If you look in the design templates folder, you can find that the human destroyer design includes:

WeaponBeam ;6
WeaponMissile ;3

So the human AI designs (in default setup) will always use 6 beam and 3 missile as long as they can fit to size. The focus should influence what to research and possibly also influence which beam weapon to actually equip, for instance.

It is a good idea to be aware of this if you have just one of the research/design settings automated. No matter how much you research phasers, the human AI designers won't use them. And unless you mess with tech focuses, the human research-AI won't spend much time on phasers, no matter how much you equip them. If you change research focus to phasers, I think you will see the AI research it, though.



deciplex -> RE: How the AI Upgrades designs...? (4/24/2015 5:17:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

If you look in the design templates folder, you can find that the human destroyer design includes:

WeaponBeam ;6
WeaponMissile ;3

So the human AI designs (in default setup) will always use 6 beam and 3 missile as long as they can fit to size. The focus should influence what to research and possibly also influence which beam weapon to actually equip, for instance.

It is a good idea to be aware of this if you have just one of the research/design settings automated. No matter how much you research phasers, the human AI designers won't use them. And unless you mess with tech focuses, the human research-AI won't spend much time on phasers, no matter how much you equip them. If you change research focus to phasers, I think you will see the AI research it, though.

I know what's in the templates, but read carefully what I'm posting. What you're saying is simply not true and I've proved it. I can easily get the AI to put phasers on its ship designs for humans - I just did this after I read your post, in fact.

Seriously, start a new game. Set your tech level to three. Switch around your research priorities and watch how the AI changes your ship designs. You will have to delete the previous designs to prompt it to build new ones for you, but when you do that you can easily observe how your research priorities influence the design.

There is some kind of weighting involved, though. For example, for humans the AI seems to prefer missiles to torpedoes even if you select torpedoes as the research priority. However, if your torpedo tech is a level or two higher than your missile tech, and if you select torpedoes as your research priority, then the AI will put torpedoes on your ships instead of missiles.

Phasers, beams, and guns, on the other hand, seem to be weighted about equally - again for humans, at least. I can select a research priority of phasers, and the AI will put phasers on my ships. Change the research priority to beams, I get beams. Guns and I get guns. Try it.

So it seems to be weighted according to some combination of research priority, tech level, and racial preference. (I'm assuming it's racial preference that causes the AI to put missiles on my ships even if the research priority is for torpedoes and the tech level is equal, but it could just be that the AI always does this regardless of target race - I haven't checked this yet.) The AI is a bit more sophisticated than you give it credit for and will certainly not refuse to put phasers or any other weapon on your designs "no matter what".



mordachai -> RE: How the AI Upgrades designs...? (4/24/2015 5:21:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: deciplex
Actually, it seems like the AI will look at the research priorities when deciding how to outfit ships. I had an early game as the humans, who are beams and missiles by default so the starting destroyer design is with those two weapon types, i.e. pulse blaster and seeking missile. I turned off all manual upgrades and waited until energy collectors were researched. I saved the game, set the research priority from missiles and beams like before, to missiles and rail guns, then turned on auto-upgrades for destroyers. When the AI designed a new ship to add the energy collectors, it had swapped out the pulse blasters for long range guns. I reloaded the save, kept the research priority as beams and missiles, turned on auto-upgrades, and this time I got a destroyer design with the blasters and missiles. Seems pretty conclusive.
This was with auto-research set to OFF, mind you.

Good to know! Thanks for sharing!



deciplex -> RE: How the AI Upgrades designs...? (4/24/2015 11:52:03 PM)

After a bit more testing I think the AI doesn't look at research priorities when selecting between missiles and torpedoes. Only tech level seems to matter with those. However everything I've said about beams, phasers, and guns is true: if the tech levels are within one tier of each other, the AI will look at research priority to determine which to select for designs. If the difference in tech level is greater than one tier, the AI will choose the higher tech level.



Siddham -> RE: How the AI Upgrades designs...? (4/25/2015 12:42:53 AM)

I dont think the AI 'looks' at anything or considers anything.
I think there are a set of patterns for each race that it follows.
As I understand it Icemania's AI mod tries to improve those patterns so the AI ships are better designed & armed and present more of a challenge.



deciplex -> RE: How the AI Upgrades designs...? (4/25/2015 2:09:17 AM)

Well, I don't "think" anything, I just know what I've observed the ship designer actually do. Research priority definitely affects ship design for beams, phasers, and guns. And tech level is a factor for them as well, along with torpedoes and missiles. If you don't believe it, you can check for yourself in about five minutes, just as I've described.



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