Convert WON to a 7 Years War game (Full Version)

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Yogi Yohan -> Convert WON to a 7 Years War game (9/22/2000 2:18:00 PM)

A humble suggestion: why not convert what you have already done on Wars of Napoleon into a game about the 7 years war of 1756-1763? This war included most of the countries that later took part in the Napoleonic Wars and like them (or more so)was fought all over the world, in India, America and on the seas of the world. You could probably get away with changing only cosmetics (names, dates etc), some borders and the OBs (or equivalent). The result would be a game rather close to what WON would have looked like, and would be unasailable from a legal point of wiev: If Napoleon had even been born in 1763, he was a toddler. Hardly the "Napoleonic" age...



Holger Wilcks -> (9/22/2000 4:45:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Yogi Yohan: A humble suggestion: why not convert what you have already done on Wars of Napoleon into a game about the 7 years war of 1756-1763?
Baahaaaa!!! I haven't felt this bad since my favourite Irish pub closed down to make room for a multimillion dollar hotel. But ok, I guess your idea is the next best thing. Please Matrix: consider it! And Talonsoft: In you f...... face! We are soo done! Regards, Holger



laurent Favre -> (9/22/2000 4:54:00 PM)

Just dreaming...Why not a release as free product? I suppose either TS contract or Frank Hunter's legitimate interest prohibit that, but it would be a so nicer reply to TS efforts...



waynef -> (9/22/2000 7:30:00 PM)

TOAW is the last game I buy from TS! WoN gone! This really sux. Why didnt TS just wait untill Matrix was ready to deliver the game and pull the carpet out? Did TS not see this work being done all along? Why wait this long? Amazing.



GulFalco -> (9/22/2000 9:56:00 PM)

Talonsoft just lost some customers, don't they know that lots of us have been buying computer games for years and will continue to do so? But never from Talonsoft ever again.



Gnagnus -> (9/22/2000 10:42:00 PM)

I purchased almost all Talonsoft's products. But now I believe I'll begin a boycott campaign against so unfair people in all forums and clubs here in Italy. Talonsoft fu...!!!!!!!!!!!!! [This message has been edited by Paul Vebber (edited September 22, 2000).]



Von Rom -> (9/22/2000 11:17:00 PM)

Talonsoft won't do a Napoleonic game, and so they don't want anyone else to do one either? What is the matter with them? This smacks of a similar thing with Sierra when they cancelled Civil War Generals III. Now I will not buy any products from Talonsoft OR Sierra. Matrix - why not release the game either free, or under someone else's name - and put Frank Hunter down as the consultant? [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img] Surely to goodness there has to be a way to get this game out. I was so looking forward to this strategic Napoleon wargame. Do something Talonsoft - straight out this situation - it is not too late to do so... ------------------ A King Tiger can give you a definite edge...



Grumble -> (9/22/2000 11:24:00 PM)

Yeah, Talonsoft is pretty low, but more importantly to the posters here, what about Matrix? Seems to me they were counting on this game to generate some capital for them with the Christmas season approaching. Puts them in a bind; having to either cut back on support for existing games to push another paying game out the door or, simply start charging for any future versions of the free games on offer now.



GulFalco -> (9/23/2000 12:55:00 AM)

This is from Talonsoft: A press release appeared on Matrix Games' website containing erroneous/misleading information. Following are our comments regarding the press release: TalonSoft has an agreement with Mr. Hunter to publish his Napoleonic game. We have not been contacted by Mr. Hunter nor have we been able to contact him since he signed said agreement with TalonSoft almost two years ago. All phone numbers and email addresses we have for Mr. Hunter have been canceled. We are pleased that Mr. Hunter has chosen to honor his agreements with TalonSoft and terminate his attempt to publish his game with a third party. If he chooses to contact us regarding his Napoleonic content we will work diligently to bring it to market as soon as possible. Talonsoft has no negotiations or discussions with Matrix Games concerning Mr. Hunter's game, other than to notify them that we had an outstanding contract with Mr. Hunter. TalonSoft remains the undisputed worldwide leader in the development and publishing of war games. We will let the body of our work and the investment we have made in the genre over the last five years speak for itself. TalonSoft continues its commitment to war games and the war gaming community and will do so far into the foreseeable future. The Management of TalonSoft O.K. so thats there version, now what's the truth?



mogami -> (9/23/2000 12:59:00 AM)

I waited for 2 years for Civilwar Generals III, I have never bought anything of Talons so I don't know if they are any good or not. I looked at all my software mostly SSI, Sierra, and Microprose. Could WON be changed to format like Colonial Conquest, or Diplomacy where countries start in era say 1700 or 1800 and go for 50-100 years then it would have nothing to do with Napolean (of course thats what we all wanted) As far as Matrix goes I will gladly pay for War in the Pacific in advance and I remember paying $80 for Pac War new, I think this new effort is worth at least as much. ------------------ I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction! [This message has been edited by Mogami (edited September 22, 2000).]



Grumble -> (9/23/2000 1:02:00 AM)

I'm no lawyer, but it sounds like the same thing Matrix is saying: Talonsoft is taking the game from Matrix due to contract issues with the designer. Neither side has explicitly said so, but I would suspect that Talonsoft would move to block release based on the alleged designer's contract with them. Bottom line is Talonsoft gets the game, after Matrix did the development.



GulFalco -> (9/23/2000 1:24:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by GulFalco: Ahh! Seeing that banner for WoN at the top of my screen is really annoying now. Also as regards to changing the game format, if it was changed the direction should be towards after 1815 not before with EU coming out it would face sfiff competition . I normally hate Real time, but Europa Universalis looks awsome , and with speed options like 1 minute equals 1 week, I can't wait to get it. On another note I was wondering, could Talonsoft's actions have anything to do with all these people who use to post on their boards posting here now?
------------------ Men are cheap, but women can never be payed for. Napoleon



Erik Rutins -> (9/23/2000 3:10:00 AM)

FYI TalonSoft has revised their announcement regarding our press release. You may want to take a look at the new one at http://forums.talonsoft.com/ Regards, - Erik ------------------ Designer / Programmer Matrix Games



Repo Man -> (9/23/2000 3:23:00 AM)

I hate to say this, but reading between the lines, it looks like Hunter had a valid contract with TS, and then chose to go with Matrix. On a personal level, my guess is that it is much more rewarding to work with Matrix as a game developer, but a contract is a contract. Sounds to me like this should have been resolved before all the work was done. I am still pretty bummed out, and think I’ll go listen to some Creedence.



GulFalco -> (9/23/2000 3:31:00 AM)

Ahh, how nice of TS to soften the tone of their message. As regards to them releasing WoN, somehow I doubt there sincerity. ------------------ Men are cheap, but women can never be payed for. Napoleon



laurent Favre -> (9/23/2000 3:34:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Repo Man: I hate to say this, but reading between the lines, it looks like Hunter had a valid contract with TS, and then chose to go with Matrix. On a personal level, my guess is that it is much more rewarding to work with Matrix as a game developer, but a contract is a contract. Sounds to me like this should have been resolved before all the work was done. I am still pretty bummed out, and think I’ll go listen to some Creedence.
Reading between the lines, it doesn't seem a strategic wargame about Napoleon period was for TS a priority ( 2 year without contacting the designer...). A contract is a contract but the good faith is another thing. If the game is delayed as a result of TS action, I will not buy it. No more money for TS from my earnings.



Marc Hameleers -> (9/23/2000 4:45:00 AM)

Confession: Although I really dislike Talonsoft now, if they bring the game to the market I will buy it....I have to admit that. I just hope that the game will be all it can be, and that this issue doesn't destroy it, or destroys the other games that where planned by Frank Hunter and Matrix. For the moment though, all my hopes for great strategy gaming are now resting with EU.... Marc



Von Rom -> (9/23/2000 7:21:00 AM)

I find it very odd that Talonsoft waited this long to say something about WoN. For several months they knew Matrix and Frank Hunter were working on this game. Why wait until now to say something? My feeling is that WoN was starting to look REAL good - new maps, icons, graphics, etc - and that's probably when Talonsoft said - hey - this game is looking real nice - maybe WE should put it out... The rest is history... I simply don't buy the fact that Talonsoft couldn't get into contact with Frank Hunter for two years! Come on, guys. Ever heard of looking in a phone book? Besides, wasn't Talonsoft starting to steer away from wargames? Remember when all those wargame designers left Talonsoft, and the company started to put out real time strategy games instead? And I think most of them have been flops too. Their last good wargame was Rising Sun. Now I feel they want to jump on Hunter's and Matrix's bandwagon - hoping that WoN will give them a badly needed hit game... Even so - isn't Frank Hunter's agreement with Talonsoft based on making A Napoleonic wargame? If so, he could still do ANOTHER Napoleonic wargame for Talonsoft - and meanwhile he could still do WoN for Matrix. Why does Frank have to do WoN for Talonsoft? His agreement with Talonsoft is do a Napoleonic wargame. Fine. Is there a time limit spelled out in the agreement? If not - then Frank should say - OK, I'll do a Napoleonic wargame for you guys (Talonsoft) just as soon as I finish WoN for Matrix. Maybe a good lawyer needs to see that contract and see what it really says... ------------------ A King Tiger can give you a definite edge... [This message has been edited by Von Rom (edited September 22, 2000).]



Marc Hameleers -> (9/23/2000 1:03:00 PM)

No doubt they have looked at that contract real good before cancelling. Too bad, i think that we would have gotten way better support from Matrix, as they have shown that they really want to please us! Please Matrix, keep up the good work!! Please Frank, finish your game as good as you can, and then make a few games for matrix.....your games are great! And Frank....don't sign any contracts with straingers anymore..only here, at Matrix! [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Marc



waynef -> (9/23/2000 7:43:00 PM)

Napolean games on the horizon...??? Tactical John Tiller (cant think of the name of the game) Sid Meiers Waterloo (I will buy this one) Strategic Wars of Napolean Anything else out there?



Repo Man -> (9/23/2000 10:28:00 PM)

Perhaps waiting a little bit longer would have allowed the statute of limitations to run. Or perhaps TS failure to produce the game would have allowed Hunter to sue TS for breach of contract. Or perhaps TS had no case but the possible cost of litigation would be too much for Matrix to absorb right now. Only the folks at Matrix know the details. I don’t know if Matrix can answer this question, but is it possible to buy out Hunter’s contract from TS? If so, I bet you would have many volunteers who would be willing to cough up some bucks. I know I would.



von Curow -> (9/26/2000 11:58:00 PM)

I was so sad to see that Matrix cancelled WON, but it seems pretty clear that Frank Hunter must have had a contract with TS. I always wonder how these things can happen (did he forget about it, or not tell Matrix about it?), but no use crying over spilled milk. Another thought, if TS is unwilling to release the game (or unable to, since Matrix, having paid for its development, might have some legal rights to WON), perhaps Matrix and Hunter could get together and produce a "revolutionary warfare construction set", which simulates strategic warfare in random worlds (like SSI's Imperialism) with Napoleonic-era technology. Better than seeing all that work go to waste, and it would still be fun... especially if it came with a map editor, and someone outside of Matrix were to post a Europe map on the web...



strategy -> (9/28/2000 4:19:00 PM)

How incredibly sad to check the WON page for updates and read the terrible news. And it was looking so promising as well - I just can't understand why TS would want to close down the game. It is hardly as if it threatens them (since they don't make wargames anymore... [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img]). And even if it did, they could have let him make WON - seen if it became a success and then contracted him to do WON2. It's incredible - not only won't the "big" publishers create the type of games the wargamers want - they'll even go out of their way to prevent others from publishing them. What is the world coming to? /strategy Imperium - Rise of Rome



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