RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (Full Version)

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PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/8/2016 11:42:10 AM)

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

I will keep an eye on Tokyo's supply, but you know Pax, sometimes you make my head hurt. [:D]


I like to think sometimes I give Pax a headache with my method of expanding Japan's economy early. I won't even mention how much supply I have at Tokyo, Pax would freak. [:D]


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el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/10/2016 2:56:23 AM)

Ceylon Jun 13, 1942

My invasion of Ceylon is not going as well as expected. Despite two bombardments, the coastal guns at Trincomalee were devastating. I have landed at two alternative sites and will take an indirect approach.

I have been reading PzB's AAR, “Back in Business,” and a couple of people advised him to place his KB to follow his SC TFs. I thought that sounded like a good idea, but for me it wasn't. My SC escort ran into a sub and while doing what it is supposed to do, my KB detached itself, reset itself to “Retirement Allowed,” and placed itself in the middle of a line of Rio's subs (below). I managed to extract the KB away without harm, except to my nervous system.

I then reset the escort to follow the KB and set the KB to move NW. Instead of the KB moving NW and the escort coming down joining-up some where in between, the KB sat there and waited for the escort. Besides the obvious danger to the KB, all of this extra maneuvering caused the KB to be out of position for three turns while Rio relentlessly bombed my unprotected troops on Trincomalee. From now on, my KB will be the alpha TF.


[image]local://upfiles/45493/264F28DC99E54EE58A2928F53858A7E0.jpg[/image]



GetAssista -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/10/2016 12:08:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo
My invasion of Ceylon is not going as well as expected. Despite two bombardments, the coastal guns at Trincomalee were devastating. I have landed at two alternative sites and will take an indirect approach.

One time bombardments won't do much against CD guns, unless thoroughly overwhelming gainst non-fortified units. To help protect transports you need to embed heavy hitters into amphyb TF itself, they suppress CDs and draw fire to themselves. + rotate those who expend ammo if unloading takes more than one turn.



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/10/2016 1:42:46 PM)

Thanks GA,

I sent in some heavies but in a separate TF. Will do it your way next time.



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/10/2016 1:44:57 PM)

Production Jun 16, 1942 Turn 191

This is the last report on resources. They are flowing nicely and I think all the way from CRB although still not from Singapore. Resources are at 10.8M and are increasing steadily in the HI.

Oil is not as prolific and I am still tracking and tweaking it. More on it later.

[image]local://upfiles/45493/6588695ED3294089806091025E172A59.jpg[/image]



PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/10/2016 9:42:17 PM)

Flowing from CRB is 90% of the trip. Given the late start to set this up, think you did a great job.



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/15/2016 11:31:00 AM)

Thanks Pax.

I think that Oil will do about the same. I am still sorting out the shipping. I am dropping off in Haiphong as you suggested and HK. Oil is moving out of CRB, I'm just not sure which way it is going.

Give me a couple of more weeks of tracking and I will report.



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/15/2016 11:33:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

One time bombardments won't do much against CD guns, unless thoroughly overwhelming gainst non-fortified units. To help protect transports you need to embed heavy hitters into amphyb TF itself, they suppress CDs and draw fire to themselves. + rotate those who expend ammo if unloading takes more than one turn.

When I embed the heavies I get all of this red. What does this mean and should I go ahead and invade the port with this?

[image]local://upfiles/45493/2313EDC9192D40FEB94B65445DF10FCF.jpg[/image]



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/15/2016 11:35:59 AM)

CHINA Jun 20, 1942 Turn 196

I think China is doing well.

From top to bottom, some armor units are rousting some very beat-up Chinese units left-over from Lanchow north and will eventually get to Urumchi.

I am moving units into Tienshui. At present there are six Chinese units there with one more moving in from the north.

In the hex below that, there are ten Chinese units that I have been bombarding for a month now. I have destroyed one unit and brought their AV down to 380 from over 800. I will continue to bombard them to dust even though I have 1800 AV there.

The hex below that is where we have parity and he has 3X terrain. As mentioned before, it is a good place for him to make a stand but it will eventually be a good place for him to die.

The units to the south of that are moving west and will be part of my Chungking siege.

There are fourteen beat-up Chinese units in Kweiyang. I have 2600 AV there but I do not know what he has yet.

We are at parity between Chingking and Kweiyang but he is wearing-down.

Nanning is still in Chinese hands but is unoccupied.


[image]local://upfiles/45493/1562735B84EA447EBCBB24EBBD78363B.jpg[/image]



GetAssista -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/15/2016 5:17:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo
When I embed the heavies I get all of this red. What does this mean and should I go ahead and invade the port with this?

This is because Rangoon is up the river and BBs can't go there. Does not matter if you invade seaside port, just know that you would have to do some rearranging for this to return to Rangoon



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/16/2016 6:57:15 AM)

Yes, thank you. Change the Home Port and the red goes away.



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/17/2016 10:18:13 AM)

PRODUCTION Jun 21, 1942 Turn 197

The A6M5 Zero accelerated to 7/42 so I will start building that a/c in nine days.

Can someone give me a synopsis or a link as to how kamikaze units work? How do we use all of these old a/c as Kamis? I have looked and have not found an explanation as yet.

Thanks.



PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/19/2016 11:32:35 AM)

Pretty straightforward. Check the manual for specifics that I don't remember.

The allies need to cross a line around IJ to activate. when they do:

Air groups has to have LOW exp.
Once converted, they can never convert back.
Whatever the group was, they still use that type of airframe. So if you convert a DB group, it can use any type of DB that you have in your pools.

The key here is to plan which groups you will convert. You have to be careful, for instance, not to convert too many fighter groups or you won't have enough for CAP. Ditto all the other plane types.

Next, the group has to be low exp to convert, but afterwards you can upgrade the pilots if you wish. LOW NAV skill is the skill used IIRC. So you need 1000's of pilots trained up in that skill.

Speed gets you through the allied defense, and then bomb load dictates that damage. That's why the Tsurugi is nice. Good speed (for a bomber) and an 800kg bomb. When it hits anything, it goes boom. But to get through the deathstar you simply need numbers .... ~ 2000 AC, roughly 50/50 fighters/kami is what I try for. That's why all those early planes (Kates/Vals/Zeros/Ida/etc) get used. This means you really want to launch from AF=9 bases. Plan where you will build those for defense carefully and get them in place during '43.






GetAssista -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/19/2016 12:25:49 PM)

And leave the oldest planes for training as long as you have one. They don't have neither speed nor bombload, but are as good as anything else to train skills. Let more modern airframes die first. Think it's pretty early to think about kamikazes in summer 1942 though, except for planning airbase layout in HI, but that should be done regardless.



Andav -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/19/2016 12:36:02 PM)

For fighter groups specifically, you have to set them to 1000ft and Naval Attack. They will train Strafing if set to 100ft and you might not notice for a while and end up with a bunch of pilots who are "Willing strafe for the Emperor!" instead of "Willing to die for the Emperor!" [8|]

Look for planes with armor which carry a bomb. I have had decent luck with Oscar III. It has decent range and in theory carries 2x250kg. They do not always carry a bomb.

The main problem is the kami's just do not do that much damage and they seem to bounce off of anything bigger then a CL. They are by far the easiest way to kill a Fletcher.

Best of luck!

Wa



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/19/2016 2:12:57 PM)

Thanks Guys and welcome Andav,

Great answers as always. I ask for several reasons.

As you know, I am converting groups to Nicks and Tojos and I want to be cognizant of my future needs. I need to convert some of my A6M5 Zero R&D to other models and looking forward there also. Watching my engine production too. All of this and obsolete a/c starting to accumulate was the impetus for the question.

Pax, I noted your mention of the Tsurugi in Mike's AAR and added it to my build list a couple of weeks ago. Noted also that it is a third generation a/c that uses the Ha-35.

Thanks for the specific mode and altitude Andav. I read all of the charts and still come away scratching my head.

A follow-up question. If you send in ~2000 a/c, say divided by an average of 40 a/c per air group, that would be like ~fifty air groups. A lot of potential loss of air groups I'm thinking. So, once you convert a group, can you add more a/c to the groups than to what we are used?



Andav -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/19/2016 3:57:59 PM)


I have never added extra aircraft to a group. A lot of people use CVs to expand air groups. Personally, I do not do this but since you are playing "The Gamiest Game in Town", I assume your are leveraging this feature for your IJN groups. In late 44, you start getting large air groups (93 or 96 planes can't remember) which I guess people are using as either escort or as kamis. I think this is where the huge strikes come from.

Since I play PDU ON, if the unit is large, I will launch a strike with one model plane and then move the unit someplace safe and down grade to an older model. I will launch a strike with that model and then move back to someplace safe and then upgrade to a new model. That way, a 49 plane group can fill with aircraft each time without waiting to reset the clock. Obviously, SR1 planes work best with this method but SR2 are acceptable since your "safe place" should be a large airfield with plenty of support. It lets you use those older model planes and does not completely stress your new model pools. If you do not want to upgrade and downgrade, divide the air groups when it is time to add planes which should get you close to the 12 max. I tend to set 10% to Rest so I can fly the groups out to fill again. Good news is you never have damaged planes to wait to repair in the original group.

Wa



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/19/2016 11:10:56 PM)

Thanks. All of this gives me a basic understanding on which to build.

I do expand some of my naval units but I try to be careful because as you know, nothing is free. Used mostly for training but having a couple of extra Zero groups around in nice.



PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/20/2016 11:57:08 AM)

Andav's attack profile is not entirely accurate based upon my experience unless there have been changes in the recent beta's that I have missed. Kami has a fixed attack profile, much like a DB. Doesn't matter the altitude you send a kami in, as long as above 100ft, it is going to "Head" into its target. So, you can set 20,000 ft or 5000 ft. Some players mass all at one altitude, others a mix. I've had success with both, a lot depends upon how your opponent will set up his CAP. Your goal is to overwhelm it in numbers.

They do not drop bombs, they are the bomb. 250kg bombs, as you already know, don't do much to ships above a CL unless you get several hits as they do cause FIRES and fire will damage everything and anything. This is why sally's are good kami, each hit is 4x250kg which creates a lot more fires even on a BB. 800 kg bombs hurt anything bad, few allied ships can withstand more than 3, many go down on 1 hit (I've always noticed that CVE's hate 800 kg kami's). There has been a lot of speculation about how much damage beyond the bomb a kami does. The dev's have been mum, so we don't know. My guess is that kami hits have a chance to create more fire, but that's about all I have ever seen. otherwise the bomb size and qty really determine the damage just like a bomber.

Air groups do survive, but the planes and pilots are generally one way. You have to reconstitute groups after each mission. This takes 2-3 days if you are well practiced and at a lvl9 AF with excess AV support. Don't forget to CAP your AF as the allied deathstar has greater range than your kami's in general. So 2000 plane kami attack PLUS >500 CAP ... you have a lot of groups at that base. Means a herd of airHQ's, high air skill leaders, etc. Takes practice to get all the variables in place.



Andav -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/20/2016 12:59:44 PM)

quote:

Andav's attack profile is not entirely accurate based upon my experience unless there have been changes in the recent beta's that I have missed. Kami has a fixed attack profile, much like a DB. Doesn't matter the altitude you send a kami in, as long as above 100ft, it is going to "Head" into its target.


Pax, I was taking about the Training setting not the mission setting. For fighters, if you set them at 100ft in Training, they will train strafe.

For the mission, I have set them at different altitudes but have not found one which seems to work better then another.

Wa





Lowpe -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/20/2016 2:10:34 PM)

I will bite on Kamikazes...just general ramblings.

You don't need specialized kamikaze planes in a pdu on game. Good planes are Judy and Jill, Oscars and Franks. Helens carry a lot of bombs but also two engines and need big airbases. No torpedo carrying kamikazes. I like Jills for their decent bomb load, and long range; Judies for their great bomb load and ability to penetrate CAP quickly. Frank A might be the best of the fighter kamikazes. Although it is neat to have built a dedicated kamikaze.

You ideally want fast, high altitude, minimum 2x250kg, one engine and a bomber. Fighter squadrons are busy being fighter squadrons.

Range is important for several base protections like Okinawa, and to transfer kamikaze squadrons.

I don't know if there is a correlation between maneuver and ability to hit ships. I think there might be, but I am in the minority here.[;)]

It costs 10 victory points to convert a squadron (must be low experience) to kamikaze status.

Kamikaze squadrons do survive after their attack, but lose every plane and pilot that flies against an enemy taskforce.

You need high lowNaval pilots, otherwise you are throwing away planes and partially trained pilots. Good defense skills helps too.

Allied flak is really tough to penetrate.

You can set your attack squadrons to any height 1000 to max altitude...the higher the altitude the lesser the AA is on the approach phase.

I thought there might be a correlation between attack height and kamikaze hits. High altitude attacks might hit superstructure more, low altitude might hit belt armor...but again that is mere supposition on my part and probably not true.

A high naval skill commander might help the squadron attack worthwhile targets. Might.

You can set Kamikazes to search, but I am not sure they actually do.[&:]

You can set Kamikazes to CAP, but they don't kamikaze into enemy bombers. Actually, they might, but mine never survived the Allied sweeps first to try against bombers. It is an intriguing idea however.

Even Zero kamikazes with 60kg bombs can knock out devices on warships and be worth using in a pinch, or oversupply or against destroyers, aks, etc.

It takes multiple hits to put down warships.

Generally when a big invasion comes, the fleet carriers stay one or more hexes away, and the invasion fleet has BB, and CVEs at the beaches. CVEs are pretty easy to kill with kamikazes, fleet carriers are really tough to sink, and you have to penetrate the enemy CAP and then the enemy flak, and then the enemy naval commanders.

Your attacks are land based, and generally go in very piecemeal.

Each lost plane is 1 victory point for the Allies.[:(]

A very decent strategy against the deathstar is to have one squadron kamikaze at it at very high altitude escorted by your best fighters (and a lot of them).. You fighters tend to avoid the dive, and might even sweep ahead of the kamikazes, and you can degrade the fighters in the deathstar for attacks later in subsequent days.

Unfortunately the Allies can counter this by having a replenishment CVE taskforce behind the front lines, and fly in replacement fighters.

You need thousands of kamikazes.










el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/21/2016 8:56:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Although it is neat to have built a dedicated kamikaze.

.... one engine and a bomber. Fighter squadrons are busy being fighter squadrons.

Thanks again guys, this is more gold.

I know that it is early in the game to be talking kamis but two things. One, I am watching my production closely so hopefully I will not have a lot of extra air-frames laying around by kamikaze-time and at one or two thousand a shot it won't take long to get rid of them. So, two, taking your advise it would seam to be a good time to start to R&D a kami since I have three locations that I can use. I am thinking Pax's favorite, the Tsurugi.

Would a good analogy be that a kami air group is like an artillery piece? You load it, shoot at the enemy, repeat. The artillery piece (kami air group) remains but the shells (a/cs) are gone?



PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/21/2016 12:39:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andav

quote:

Andav's attack profile is not entirely accurate based upon my experience unless there have been changes in the recent beta's that I have missed. Kami has a fixed attack profile, much like a DB. Doesn't matter the altitude you send a kami in, as long as above 100ft, it is going to "Head" into its target.


Pax, I was taking about the Training setting not the mission setting. For fighters, if you set them at 100ft in Training, they will train strafe.

For the mission, I have set them at different altitudes but have not found one which seems to work better then another.

Wa




SORRY! Miss interpreted your response. Yes, for training you are precisely correct.



PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/21/2016 12:41:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo


Would a good analogy be that a kami air group is like an artillery piece? You load it, shoot at the enemy, repeat. The artillery piece (kami air group) remains but the shells (a/cs) are gone?[/size]

yes.



PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/21/2016 12:43:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

You need thousands of kamikazes.


+1

I generally try to prep about 10K kami's ... pilots and planes.

that's ~5 attacks on the deathstar, with a goal of depleting it by ~ 50%. Not all sinkings mind you, but if they are in the yard for 6 months in the late game, that's almost as good.



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/29/2016 5:45:49 AM)

A/C PRODUCTION, DEPLOYMENT Jul 1, 1942 Turn 207

Ki-44-IIc Tojo accelerated to 12/43.

Four Ki-43-IIa Oscar R&D locations fully repaired and three have been moved to the IIb and one to the IIIa. Three more locations to repair.

The A6M5 Zero started producing today. I have sixty a month for now.

A note/warning to any newbies reading this. It has probably been discussed many times else-where but I either missed it or it failed to register.

The Zero follows the same convoluted paths in production as they do in R&D. This means that you can not convert any A6M2 locations to the M5 without them all being damaged and factories reduced as the M2 Sen Baku is the next a/c in that line (2/44). This means that you can not start production until some of the factories repair, and, it cost more supply.

In the back of my mind I have been thinking all along that I would simply change my producing M2 locations to produce the M5 but for other reasons I let two M5 R&Ding locations go into production. A lucky break for me.

I have five Ki-45Ia units. Two are still filling-out. One is a Magwe, another is at Chang Mai waiting for more aviation support at Meiktila and the original is still at Pbang.

I have four Ki-44-IIa Tojo units. Magwe, Meiktila, Pbang and one on the way to Burma.



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/29/2016 5:48:05 AM)

CARGO Jul 1, 1942 Turn 207

This is the last I will post re oil. I think that this shows that it is pulling from Saigon-CRIB.

The refineries at Magwe and Rangoon are off. I thought it interesting that Rangoon suddenly had a lot of fuel. It is pulling from Singapore so maybe oil will also move out some day.



[image]local://upfiles/45493/84892709FBC940C6BCE88DD8423F0079.jpg[/image]



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/29/2016 5:51:02 AM)

PRODUCTION Jul 1, 1942 Turn 207

Below is my monthly stats. I am a little worried about supply. I am trying to keep building and repairs to a minimum but I am using a lot to support Burma. I finally have a positive flow of oil and fuel into the H.I.s. These are all coming through Fusan.


[image]local://upfiles/45493/24F24640D9FC4A17891A694ED0B428F6.jpg[/image]



PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/29/2016 10:50:29 AM)

Yeah, be concerned about supply. at this point in the game, dropping 300k/mo is definitely the wrong trend. 4M supply is quite dangerous, you can crash your economy quite quickly.

The simple method to address this: go to the industry management screen. click the "all industry button in the top left TWICE to ensure all industry is showing. Now turn off ALL factory repair (you may have some on that you don't realize) bottom left. and then, very selectively start turning factory repair back on one factory at a time. Not more than 5 factories per turn. Stop when supply growth drops to 5K/day. You can't repair any more factories than that.

This will net you 150K/mo which at this point in the game is pretty marginal. I'm usually saving closer to 10K/day ... targeting 8M supply by 6/43 as a minimum. Remember, my goal is to be able to repair 4000 AC and engine factories with 3rd gen, so I have to have at least 4M supply set aside to do that. Can't waste it on 1st and 2nd gen stuff. The earliest 3rd gen AC start to show up is 6/43-ish ... so I gotta have that buffer in place by then ... its a plan




el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (1/29/2016 12:11:11 PM)

Thanks Pax,

Done. I will "beady eye" it.

Some bases are going to have to tighten their belt a bit and HI growth will have to wait awhile.

I have a big supply drain coming soon in Burma. More on that tomorrow.




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