RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (Full Version)

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PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (6/11/2016 7:23:05 PM)

Keep building up your pilot reserves. These should be defined as minimum 70 skill and 50 exp pilots. Anything below that is really just fodder. You would like to have +5000 each IJN/IJA by mid 44 in place. At that point, for sure, you will be trading at less than 1:1 in pilots ... and when kami's kick in, you lose ~500/mo in just in volunteer kami's, doesn't even include your intentional kami attacks.



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (6/12/2016 1:44:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Keep building up your pilot reserves. These should be defined as minimum 70 skill and 50 exp pilots. Anything below that is really just fodder. You would like to have +5000 each IJN/IJA by mid 44 in place. At that point, for sure, you will be trading at less than 1:1 in pilots ... and when kami's kick in, you lose ~500/mo in just in volunteer kami's, doesn't even include your intentional kami attacks.

Thanks again Pax,

I have recently started using koniu's method of harvesting pilots. That is, I go through my training units every three or four days and move the trained pilots out to make room for more trainees.

To facilitate this, I have organized all of my main training units so that I have one location training the same skill. This makes it quicker to go through each group. An example is shown below. All the units at Tokyo are training Army Fighters. All my main training units are in Korea or the HI which also makes it quicker to sort through. I cull my perimeter groups a little less often.

All of my reserves are skill seventy or above. I also have most of my training leaders with inspiration in the seventies.

I am about to "graduate" my first "class" of Low Nav.

[image]local://upfiles/45493/8F1E344447FB45879E26E9D94FC57DD5.jpg[/image]



PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (6/12/2016 3:12:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

That is, I go through my training units every three or four days and move the trained pilots out to make room for more trainees.



I do that just twice a month. I wish I was disciplined to do it more often ... [&o]
[&o][&o]



PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (6/12/2016 3:17:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

To facilitate this, I have organized all of my main training units so that I have one location training the same skill. This makes it quicker to go through each group. An example is shown below. All the units at Tokyo are training Army Fighters.



I use different aircraft for that. So, Nates would be SWEEP @10000, Oscar 1's would be sweep @100.
Ida might be ground bomb, Sonia Nav bomb .... etc.

Same results, just different flavor.



GetAssista -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (6/12/2016 8:21:35 AM)

With rampant resizing you have radically more broad training opportunities for IJN (oh, those floatplanes...). So do not shy away from training your fighters to 70 def, then on CAP until decent XP, and only then to frontline service.



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (6/12/2016 9:30:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I use different aircraft for that. So, Nates would be SWEEP @10000, Oscar 1's would be sweep @100.
Ida might be ground bomb, Sonia Nav bomb .... etc.

Same results, just different flavor.

Like you say, different flavor.

Maybe you do it this way also, but I have my Oscars,bombers, or whatever each at a different bases. That way once I am at the base and going my groups, I don't have to worry about which skill to sort. One click and they are all sorted.

I can go through all of my main training units in about ten-fifteen minutes.

Come-on now. You know its fun. [:)]



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (6/12/2016 9:31:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

(oh, those floatplanes...)

[:D]

[image]local://upfiles/45493/D108D839343441CF9AB51E31F7354500.jpg[/image]



GetAssista -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (6/12/2016 9:41:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo
quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista
(oh, those floatplanes...)

[:D]

[:D] you call this FP resize? this is FP resize!



[image]local://upfiles/32892/273395AA8952412F829C245E7FBCFE36.jpg[/image]



PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (6/12/2016 2:19:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

With rampant resizing you have radically more broad training opportunities for IJN (oh, those floatplanes...). So do not shy away from training your fighters to 70 def, then on CAP until decent XP, and only then to frontline service.

I only train to skill. For EXP, I use them.
Fighters on CAP will gain exp pretty fast, and I always have rear areas needing CAP "just in case".
Bomber pilots get EXP by bombing those 'soft' targets that I always have ... those enemy remnants sitting somewhere in my rear areas. I don't want them moving around cutting my supply lines.
Only Recon/Transport pilots are sent out at low EXP initially, but they are so easy/fast to train I don't worry about them. By 4/42, all of them can train up to +60 exp so after that, no issue whatsoever.



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (6/12/2016 2:28:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo
quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista
(oh, those floatplanes...)

[:D]

[:D] you call this FP resize? this is FP resize!

[image]local://upfiles/32892/273395AA8952412F829C245E7FBCFE36.jpg[/image]

The master has spoken.[&o]

Pax, +1



GetAssista -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (6/12/2016 6:34:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
I only train to skill. For EXP, I use them.
Fighters on CAP will gain exp pretty fast, and I always have rear areas needing CAP "just in case".

That's what I meant. But I would also regularly skim through rear areas CAPs and fetch all the 65+ xp pilots (or 70+ if things are quiet) into AGs that are figting, and fill back with fresh 70 air/def rookies. IMO those instant pilot transfers across the world is the most gamey thing there is in WITP, you can concentrate your best men to a particular area in 1 day no matter where in the world they were initially.

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo
The master has spoken.[&o]

Only an AI game where I've cut all the corners to see if I can conquer the world, so no skill here on my part. Just found it very funny that you also had them stacked in Hiroshima :)



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (6/15/2016 2:04:25 PM)

GA. It was, is, funny. Let us know how your conquering of the world goes.

CHINA Nov 5, 1942 Turn 334

I want to avoid a shock attack on Chungking if I can. I have three Divisions next door and three coming down from Kienko. I will move five of these into Chungking and then move a couple of Divisions at a time across the river. There are ten Divisions across the river. Sounds good in theory.

[image]local://upfiles/45493/7236FC919AAD4B67ADEEE4C9290A8DB9.jpg[/image]



GetAssista -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (6/16/2016 9:41:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo
GA. It was, is, funny. Let us know how your conquering of the world goes.
Well, it was done by June 1943. Except for Russian Far East where Vlad fortress is sieged and will be for some months if I have the patience to actually finish the game

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo
I want to avoid a shock attack on Chungking if I can. I have three Divisions next door and three coming down from Kienko. I will move five of these into Chungking and then move a couple of Divisions at a time across the river. There are ten Divisions across the river. Sounds good in theory.
Shock attack trigger depends on not owning a river hexside. 5 IDs in the Chungking hex wont matter, so you better move all 10 at once, because they wil shock. Or given this is a gamey game you can move in some spare unit like armored cars. It will be trashed but will close the river hexside given 5 IDs there already



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (6/17/2016 8:54:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Or given this is a gamey game you can move in some spare unit like armored cars. It will be trashed but will close the river hexside given 5 IDs there already

Thanks GA.

I have no illusions about wining the war but I am going to try to win the Game, so if closing the hex-side had any benefit I would do it. In this instance I do not see any.

My (micro) objective is to get as many units into Chungking as I can with-out too much damage so even though it will take longer, I think I will march them into the hex west of Chungking.



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (6/17/2016 9:00:55 AM)

BURMA Nov 7, 1942 Turn 336

I have abandoned Myitkyina before it gets cut-off.

[image]local://upfiles/45493/4827E1ECFC5E4FCF90406344CADF13EE.jpg[/image]



PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (6/17/2016 2:33:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Or given this is a gamey game you can move in some spare unit like armored cars. It will be trashed but will close the river hexside given 5 IDs there already

Thanks GA.

... so if closing the hex-side had any benefit I would do it. ...

The reason to close the hex side is to prevent the CHI from retreating out of chungking.

Now, there are two thoughts about this, but neither one of them would leave that hexside open. I would read up on several AAR's to get the opinions. I subscribe to the open hexside and then it is either one of the north hexes.



PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (6/17/2016 2:56:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo


I have no illusions about wining the war but I am going to try to win the Game,


You have exactly the right thoughts here for an IJ player.

It is early yet, still another couple of years to go in this game, and overall you are not doing too badly.

The biggest issue that I see is that your timetable is late ... or the allies is early depending upon your perspective.

1. Late '42 and just starting to siege Chungking. This is late. you will be tied up here at least 3 months and more like 6. Being late, the allies have far more transports to use, if they choose, to airlift supply into CK. Bad for you.
2. Late '42 and Burma is being effectively contested by the allies. This is the base of a very effective allied counter strategy to the IJ attempt to take CHI out of the game. Very dangerous for you.

If the allies are able to take north Burma and re-open a land bridge from India to ChungKing valley, or even shorten the air bridge (use Myitkyina instead of Lashio) they will be able to get significantly more supply into CHI. Enough to prevent your taking of CHI ...
Failing to knock CHI out is devastating to the IJ. You have expended millions of supply AND trained up the CHI force experience. This means you will face better troops sooner and you will be short supply ... yuck.

Be aware of these things ... evaluate your current status. Read some AAR's on how long it takes to subdue CK. You know how much supply is used for each attack, you know you will attack every so many days ... the math is pretty easy.

Every 40 days (or less) with full PP's, the allies buy out another division ... if air divisions can be used, then it is every 15 days. You need to have that time clock in your head so that you know how many units he has.
how many have you seen in OZ? in Burma? Not seeing enough? Bad news ... means he is prepping something and you have to guess where and when. That's why I ascribe to the attack and press theory, keep the initiative. That way I know where his units are and don't suffer a major surprise. Easier said than done though ..

anyway, just some thoughts.

Mar 43 is coming soon and he gets Hellcats ... means he has a better (or no worse than equal) fighter than you and in numbers finally.
Jun 43 and Essex start to arrive. Allied players invariable start to play in the Pacific at that point, if not before.

PS: not trying to scare you, just trying to share what I see soon enough that you can adjust ... as you say, goal is to survive, not win.



GetAssista -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (6/17/2016 7:38:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Now, there are two thoughts about this, but neither one of them would leave that hexside open. I would read up on several AAR's to get the opinions. I subscribe to the open hexside and then it is either one of the north hexes.

+1 for north route open, but only in case you have some other Chinese base unoccupied (not Chengtu though as it is spawn point as Chu). It helps if Chinese have somewhere to retreat from Chu when you hit that 2:1 eventually.

Also put some fighters on LRCAP over Chu and watch if you get some A2A transports kills.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Every 40 days (or less) with full PP's, the allies buy out another division ... if air divisions can be used, then it is every 15 days. You need to have that time clock in your head so that you know how many units he has.

It's a gamey game so safe to assume Allies buy out all the units they can through reduced PP AirDivs.



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (6/18/2016 3:25:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Now, there are two thoughts about this, but neither one of them would leave that hexside open. I would read up on several AAR's to get the opinions. I subscribe to the open hexside and then it is either one of the north hexes.

Pax, GA, I appreciate your input as always. Again I must apologize for not being more descriptive of my intents and actions.

I am relying on the Manual, 8.4.2.2.1 RETREATS, though, as you have pointed-out before, this may not be a good idea.

"The hex retreated to must be able to trace a valid supply path to a friendly base and cannot be solely occupied by enemy units."

I realize that by closing the hex-side he will not be able to move into hex 76,46 but as I said, right now I see no benefit to that as I would like nothing better than for him to move into that hex while I have almost 5k of AV there. Later, according to the above from the Manual, he should not be able to retreat there as I will solely occupy the hex. (True?) I will, when the timing is right, move some units from there into Chungking.

I am going to leave the N-W hex-side open hoping he retreats toward Neikiang into the clear hex.

The hex about which I am worried is hex 77,46 as I may not able to solely occupy that hex by the time I DA Chungking. But again, according to the above, he should retreat toward Neikiang.

All of this is assuming that I have enough forces to make him retreat.

It also based on retreat. If he decides to move, it may change things.

[image]local://upfiles/45493/234801DC24EC4B93B5294F21CDD1D773.jpg[/image]



PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (6/18/2016 4:11:27 AM)

AFAIK, if you enter a hex you then you control that hexside from which you entered and the enemy cannot move through that hexside either voluntarily or via retreat. So having a unit sit in a hex will block a retreat, but not movement. If you move from a hex into a hex, you then control that hexside and both actions are blocked.

Maybe someone else will confirm ....



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (7/1/2016 12:59:23 PM)

CHINA Nov 21, 1942 Turn 350

The siege of Chungking has begun.

I moved three Divisions from the hex south-west of CK to the hex west of CK and then moved four Divisions into CK along with the units from the north-east. I then moved the artillery that was in the south-west hex across the river into CK and that triggered a "shock" Bombardment.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 9290 troops, 579 guns, 696 vehicles, Assault Value = 4328

Defending force 184248 troops, 727 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 5232

Japanese ground losses:
Guns lost 6 (1 destroyed, 5 disabled)
Vehicles lost 12 (1 destroyed, 11 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
306 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 31 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 3 disabled

Now for a big question. I still have seven Divisions, 3k AV, south of CK. I would like to start three or four of them marching toward Burma.

Can I take CK with what I have there plus another two Divisions? I know that Rio is low on supplies everywhere in China.


[image]local://upfiles/45493/15E9E6EB1E1945339D49AF3BECB5E052.jpg[/image]



PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (7/1/2016 11:33:30 PM)

CK has integral supply in most scenarios ... meaning you cannot eliminate all supply in the base. Most supply, yes. All supply, no. Now, is it going to be low enough to trigger the low supply malus? How much is he flying in? These are questions that you have to speculate on and then attempt to address ...



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (7/3/2016 3:06:45 AM)

Thanks Pax.

Recon bombed Ledo, nothing conclusive. Will keep trying.

Three Divisions will cross the river into CK next turn so we will see if we get the supply malus.

Below, interesting. Bug?

[image]local://upfiles/45493/526507D5E19F4B768D3555CE8370B7EE.jpg[/image]



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (7/5/2016 9:03:32 AM)

CHINA Nov 25, 1942 Turn 354

This did not go well. Two Divisions crossed the river last turn but did not trigger an attack. This turn I DAed. I got a real bloody nose as well as ~2000 AV loss.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 166695 troops, 2020 guns, 1552 vehicles, Assault Value = 5492

Defending force 184747 troops, 727 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 5258

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 5

Japanese adjusted assault: 871

Allied adjusted defense: 23059

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 26 (fort level 5)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
30966 casualties reported
Squads: 102 destroyed, 2524 disabled
Non Combat: 57 destroyed, 178 disabled
Engineers: 64 destroyed, 113 disabled
Guns lost 162 (12 destroyed, 150 disabled)
Vehicles lost 42 (2 destroyed, 40 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Allied ground losses:
3865 casualties reported
Squads: 77 destroyed, 623 disabled
Non Combat: 10 destroyed, 368 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 78 disabled
Guns lost 54 (3 destroyed, 51 disabled)



GetAssista -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (7/5/2016 6:12:09 PM)

There is no supply(-) for defenders. You should've bombed/bombarded them more before 1st DA.



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (7/6/2016 1:28:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

There is no supply(-) for defenders. You should've bombed/bombarded them more before 1st DA.


Thanks GA.

Rio and I were discussing as to why I took such a bad hit there.

Is supply the main reason or was there something else happening like a bad roll? All my units and HQs are prepped for CK 100% and I was well supplied.

From 1:1 to 1:26 seams unreasonable and not a bit realistic to me. Maybe the AI is paying me back for being gamey. * laughing *

I will bomb and bombard for a long time as those units rebuild. Other units on the way also.



PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (7/7/2016 4:03:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

There is no supply(-) for defenders. You should've bombed/bombarded them more before 1st DA.


Thanks GA.

Rio and I were discussing as to why I took such a bad hit there.

Is supply the main reason or was there something else happening like a bad roll? All my units and HQs are prepped for CK 100% and I was well supplied.

From 1:1 to 1:26 seams unreasonable and not a bit realistic to me. Maybe the AI is paying me back for being gamey. * laughing *

I will bomb and bombard for a long time as those units rebuild. Other units on the way also.

Lvl 5 forts and the terrain bonus matter.
Not a great result, but you reduced the forts one level. That matters. keep the bombing going so no fort rebuilt. In a week -> 10 days you should be ready to repeat. Very bloody until forts are 0.



PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (7/7/2016 4:05:58 AM)

Also, you are late which means his forces have higher exp and morale as compared to sept 42. these little things matter when the CHI force numbers are so great. he still got a - exp, but trust me his overall exp is higher now. he's prolly averaging in the 40's by now ... every point hurts you.



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (7/7/2016 8:00:16 AM)

Thanks Pax.

I don't feel so badly now knowing that it is WAD.



PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A) (7/8/2016 3:58:35 AM)

Watching to see if you are going to be able to pull this off ... My opinion: its going to be close.

Good Luck!



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