RE: Russians in Ukraine (Full Version)

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delete1 -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (6/13/2015 8:43:34 PM)

US President Barack Obama revealed the United States’ involvement in the Ukrainian crisis from its outset and admitted that the United States “had brokered a deal to transition power in Ukraine.”

http://www.globalresearch.ca/washington-was-behind-ukraine-coup-obama-admits-that-us-brokered-a-deal-in-support-of-regime-change/5429142

New video evidence has been added to the already-conclusive video evidence which shows that the U.S. Government was the controlling power behind the extremely violent and illegal 18-27 February 2014 Ukrainian coup, which overthrew the democratically elected and never legally removed-from-power Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/02/new-video-evidence-americas-coup-ukraine-means.html

It was one year ago last weekend that a violent coup overthrew the legally elected government of Ukraine. That coup was not only supported by US and EU governments -- much of it was actually planned by them. Looking back at the events that led to the overthrow it is clear that without foreign intervention Ukraine would not be in its current, seemingly hopeless situation

http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2015/february/22/interventionism-kills-post-coup-ukraine-one-year-later/



ivanov -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (6/14/2015 5:57:17 PM)

Hiding in Plain Sight: Putin's War in Ukraine




ivanov -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (6/14/2015 6:00:48 PM)

Russian T-72 during the battle of Debalceve in February 2015. Note the overpainted tactical number on the turret.


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TheWombat_matrixforum -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (6/16/2015 8:03:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Rincon

US President Barack Obama revealed the United States’ involvement in the Ukrainian crisis from its outset and admitted that the United States “had brokered a deal to transition power in Ukraine.”

http://www.globalresearch.ca/washington-was-behind-ukraine-coup-obama-admits-that-us-brokered-a-deal-in-support-of-regime-change/5429142

New video evidence has been added to the already-conclusive video evidence which shows that the U.S. Government was the controlling power behind the extremely violent and illegal 18-27 February 2014 Ukrainian coup, which overthrew the democratically elected and never legally removed-from-power Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/02/new-video-evidence-americas-coup-ukraine-means.html

It was one year ago last weekend that a violent coup overthrew the legally elected government of Ukraine. That coup was not only supported by US and EU governments -- much of it was actually planned by them. Looking back at the events that led to the overthrow it is clear that without foreign intervention Ukraine would not be in its current, seemingly hopeless situation

http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2015/february/22/interventionism-kills-post-coup-ukraine-one-year-later/


You may or may not have a good point--I'm no expert. But those sources are hardly conclusive; in fact, I'd argue they are not really helping your case. They're all fringe sites with very specific agendas and the material on them is long on hyperbole and short of actual evidence. Things taken out of context, quotes that somehow never get fully quoted, innuendo passing as insight--while each of these sites may well have germs of truth in them, from any academic perspective from any political point of view they come up very short in terms of presentation of evidence, logical argument, or anything remotely resembling academically acceptable research.

Now, that's not to say that all news sources don't have biases; they do. But this stuff you quote is not just mildly biased, it's pretty much off the charts into fiction territory.



delete1 -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (6/20/2015 2:55:25 AM)

Thank you Wombat, you got exactly to the my main point. I am just throwing sources to complement Katukovs ones, and I am not trying to discredit Katukovs sources, perhaps indeed they are better ones than mines, if thats the case, no problem to admit that! The above is just a tip of the inmense number of ONGs, so called "independent" medias, blogs, minor medias, bigger medias you can find. You can see that I have as well posted some BBCs and similars ones at a previous posts.

There are germs of truth in all of them. Thats my point on reading the most different sources I can find about a topic, specially antagonist ones. I am not a an expert either, but one thing is for sure, I take nothing for granted nor literally. I try to look for opposing point of views, opposing interpretations and opposing so called evidences in order to have a glimpse of what you called germs of truth. Thats what I think is the best we can get. Indeed and certainly in different degrees everybody has an agenda and is somehow biased.

Fiction territory or not and at what extent, this is very debatable. I would carefully take that as your opinion. There are others.

Again ack to the main topic as I have already stated, Russians are involved in Ukraine as much as US and its allies, each side using its own particular ways and sources to achieve the objectives. At the bottom line geopolitical influence is driving actions there on both sides. Realpolitiks at its best!

Talking about realpolitiks this remids me another situation, in the same line as the WMD discussed earlier, not related with Ukrainian conflict directly, but still, interesting not to say tragic:

"The war on terror, that campaign without end launched 14 years ago by George Bush, is tying itself up in ever more grotesque contortions. On Monday the trial in London of a Swedish man, Bherlin Gildo, accused of terrorism in Syria, collapsed after it became clear British intelligence had been arming the same rebel groups the defendant was charged with supporting."

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/03/us-isis-syria-iraq



delete1 -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (6/20/2015 3:48:25 PM)

Victoria Nuland: Leaked call shows US hand on Ukraine

Swearing scornfully about your allies isn't great diplomacy - but it is the revelation of the depth of the US involvement in the Ukraine crisis that really catches the eye.

But it's the larger conversation, which shows the US is manipulating Ukraine just as much as Russia, that is the real diplomatic disaster.

http://m.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-26089450



delete1 -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (6/20/2015 3:56:13 PM)

An apparently bugged phone conversation in which a senior US diplomat disparages the EU over the Ukraine crisis has been posted online. The alleged conversation between Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and the US Ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt, appeared on YouTube on Thursday. It is not clearly when the alleged conversation took place.

http://m.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957



delete1 -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (6/20/2015 4:34:20 PM)

Curious interview with a separatist combatant called Givi. Interesting insight at the war perspective from their side.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5FB5BgZNm2M

Another one from its local tv...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V8URFSdtogw



ivanov -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (6/21/2015 12:22:51 AM)

Selfie Soldiers

Tracking the steps of Russian soldiers in Ukraine. Some pretty amazing investigative journalism. Graphic war images at the beginning of the material.


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delete1 -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (6/21/2015 2:24:13 AM)

US Government Caught Funding The Coup In Ukraine

http://govtslaves.info/us-government-caught-funding-coup-ukraine/



Tazak -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (6/24/2015 2:51:21 PM)

PODCAST - despite the West having “manufactured" a threat from Russian President Vladimir Putin.



ivanov -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (6/25/2015 9:15:14 PM)

T-72B3 from 200th Independent Motor Rifle Brigade. First picture taken in August/September 2014 near Krasnodon, Luhansk oblast, Ukraine . 200th Brigade's garrison is located in Pechenga, Murmansk Oblast in Russia.


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kool_kat -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (6/26/2015 10:50:53 AM)

Gents: [8D]

Is having a political-based thread in the best interest of a forum devoted to the discussion of a game? [&:]

Seems off-topic? [&:]






ivanov -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (6/26/2015 11:44:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kool Kat

Gents: [8D]

Is having a political-based thread in the best interest of a forum devoted to the discussion of a game? [&:]

Seems off-topic? [&:]






I intentionally abstain from any pseudo political discussions and post exclusively military related stuff. I think that some info about modern Russian armed forces plus the photos and videos of the equipment would be interesting and relevant to the Cold War warriors :)



kool_kat -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (6/26/2015 12:07:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: katukov
I intentionally abstain from any pseudo political discussions and post exclusively military related stuff. I think that some info about modern Russian armed forces plus the photos and videos of the equipment would be interesting and relevant to the Cold War warriors :)


I agree 100%! [:)]

My concern is with some of the posters "not" avoiding pseudo political discussions! [;)]



Tazak -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (6/26/2015 1:21:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: katukov
I intentionally abstain from any pseudo political discussions and post exclusively military related stuff. I think that some info about modern Russian armed forces plus the photos and videos of the equipment would be interesting and relevant to the Cold War warriors :)


Posting photo's that point to Russian involvement in Ukraine is engaging in pseudo political discussions.

Personally I play devils advocate for giggles [:D]



ivanov -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (6/26/2015 2:07:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tazak

Posting photo's that point to Russian involvement in Ukraine is engaging in pseudo political discussions.



What is the name of this thread? [;)] Does it say something about evil western imperialist, devilish CIA plots, US involvement in the Middle East, Middle Earth or else? [X(]



TheWombat_matrixforum -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (6/26/2015 4:52:57 PM)

The pics are great. The political discussion, even though I tend to agree with katukov, I do think probably is at least questionable as an appropriate topic here. We should be mindful of the hosts--we don't want On Target or Matrix to feel like we're throwing a rave in their parlor and puking on the carpet or something.



Tazak -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (6/26/2015 5:05:33 PM)

Officially Russia is not at war with Ukraine so by posting pictures of Russians and Russian army equipment (apparently) in Ukraine is by default opening a political discussion.

Some of the pictures are interesting in terms of equipment but others are blatant propaganda pieces by one or the other side. I'm sure someone somewhere is making a 'current' mod for this game simulating the recent fighting so it does have value in the sense of a 'background story' providing different perspectives.

I personally think that as long as this thread doesn't degrade into personal attacks or other unwanted/unwelcome behaviour its a interesting read when your bored, although if you think this thread is bad, go check out a few of the conspiracy forums [:D]



ivanov -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (6/26/2015 6:01:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tazak

Officially Russia is not at war with Ukraine


There's a recent joke that describes the current situation:

Two friends meet to talk about politics. One asks another:

-So what's the story with Ukraine and Russia?

-Well Ukraine lost few provinces with a population of 5 million, about 10% of territory, thousands of troops, hundreds of tanks, it's GDP went down 15%...

-So what about Russia?

-Well Russia didn't even enter the war.



ivanov -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (6/26/2015 6:08:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheWombat

The pics are great. The political discussion, even though I tend to agree with katukov, I do think probably is at least questionable as an appropriate topic here. We should be mindful of the hosts--we don't want On Target or Matrix to feel like we're throwing a rave in their parlor and puking on the carpet or something.


I think that political ranting is not really appropriate on this forum. This whole thread is an offtopic but discussing only military aspects of the Ukrainian conflict seems to be quite relevant. Anything else should be discussed elsewhere.



IronMikeGolf -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (6/27/2015 1:25:19 AM)

1. You'd have to explain the turret numbers and how 828 or 831 translates to 200th Bde. Also, what's the two sets of numbers on the side skirts?
2. Fake vehicle ID numbers is...an old trick.



ivanov -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (6/27/2015 1:46:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iron Mike Golf

1. You'd have to explain the turret numbers and how 828 or 831 translates to 200th Bde. Also, what's the two sets of numbers on the side skirts?
2. Fake vehicle ID numbers is...an old trick.



Picture two was taken in the Rostov area in Russia, while picture one was taken in Ukraine. The vehicle markings seem to be very similar and as much as I know, the yellow digits and triangle appear only the vehicles that belong to the brigade. Of course this doesn't "prove" anything but the comparison of the vehicles may serve as a hint. There's no reason IMO why someone would want the T-72B3 from picture one to look like a tank from the Russian brigade ( apart from the fact that those vehicles are used exclusively by Russian army ). In my opinion someone just didn't do his job properly and forgot to overpaint the markings. Similarly to Russian soldiers who forget to switch off geotagging in their phones. I don't know what the markings on the skirts mean but maybe there's some Russian speaker here who could help?

Edit: apparentely the slogan on the skirts means "Death to fascists" or something of that sort [8|]



Alex1812 -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (6/27/2015 3:40:23 AM)

the slogan on the skirts means "For Stalin!" [:'(]



IronMikeGolf -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (6/27/2015 5:00:56 AM)

Or maybe, just maybe, it's someone's maskirovka.

Stencil fake bumper numbers on a combat vehicle?

Oh, yes, I did!

Keep a salt packet handy, my friend.



Mad Russian -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (6/28/2015 4:26:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kool Kat

Gents: [8D]

Is having a political-based thread in the best interest of a forum devoted to the discussion of a game? [&:]

Seems off-topic? [&:]




Considering what the first game in the series is about I don't know how you can not discuss military actions around the world. It just so happens that the Soviets are currently involved in this one... or not, depending on who you believe.

I would say that all military actions are subject to discussion. But that's just my opinion.

Good Hunting.

MR



ivanov -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (6/28/2015 4:29:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian


It just so happens that the Soviets are currently involved in this one...



"Soviets"?! [X(]

Old habits die hard [:D]



ivanov -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (7/2/2015 8:34:44 PM)

Russian Generals Lead Separatists?


quote:

Galeotti said this signaled that Russia wanted a more permanent influence over Ukrainian separatists. "It's a control issue, to make sure maverick commanders don't prosper," he told us. "Somewhere in Moscow they have made the decision this will be a long-term frozen conflict."



delete1 -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (7/4/2015 1:32:17 AM)

No end in sight to Ukraine conflict as US troops come to train

But the role of Ukrainian militia groups, which together form part of the National Guard, has been the source of some controversy. One of the most battle-hardened groups fighting to defend Ukraine’s east is called the Azov Battalion, a faction which displays Nazi insignia on its banners and whose members include neo-Nazis.

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/4/18/no-end-in-sight-to-ukraine-conflict-as-us-troops-come-to-train.html

It's not Russia that's pushed Ukraine to the brink of war

The reality is that after two decades of Nato expansion, this crisis was triggered by the west's attempt to pull Ukraine decisively into its orbit.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict



OldSarge -> RE: Russians in Ukraine (7/4/2015 2:02:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iron Mike Golf
Keep a salt packet handy, my friend.


Only a packet of salt? I think that reading any news from that region requires complete ownership of the enitre salt mine. [8D]

Lookup the conversation on the Russian sites about the USS Cook while it was in the Black Sea and you will see the depths of it. I'm not sure if I should just laugh, or worry that someone on the wrong side might start believing their own propganda. [:-]

Regards....



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