Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Lowpe (J) (Full Version)

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JocMeister -> Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Lowpe (J) (5/16/2015 7:30:12 PM)

This game was started against Olorin (Nick) but after a motivational failure Lowpe (Jeff) took up the game in mid February 42.

Game Settings and HRs
______________________________________________________________________________

---------------------------------------
Scenario 30 with StackingLimits (DaIronBabes)
---------------------------------------

FOW ON
advanced Weather ON
Allied damage control ON
PDU OFF
historical first turn OFF
Dec 7 surprise ON
reliable USN torps OFF
realistic R&D ON
no unit withdrawals OFF

combat reports ON
auto sub ops OFF
TF move radius ON
plane move radius ON
facilities expand OFF
auto upgrade ships and airgroups OFF
auto air and ground replacements OFF


---------------
First turn HRs
---------------

1 CV port strike on turn 1
Only existing Allied TFs can move on first turn.
No new Allied TFs


---------
Game HRs
---------


No strategic bombing prior to July 1st 1943.
No strategic bombing in China for the duration of the war.
No 4Es on naval below 10k
PPs for moving restricted units beyond national borders.
Max altitude based on year.
Dec 1941- May 1942: 20,000
June 1942-Dec 1942: 25,000
1943: 30,000
1944--45: 35.000





Encircled -> RE: Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Olorin (J) (5/16/2015 7:48:29 PM)

Not tempted by the Empire then Joc?




Lowpe -> RE: Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Olorin (J) (5/16/2015 7:51:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Not tempted by the Empire then Joc?


If he plays the Empire, then how will he lose the POW on turn 1?[:D]

Good luck! [sm=00000613.gif]




witpqs -> RE: Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Olorin (J) (5/16/2015 7:55:26 PM)

Wake up, Joc, wake up!

[image]local://upfiles/14248/7F1E317DEF124BE29C5D4ED2AF4D8285.gif[/image]




JocMeister -> RE: Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Olorin (J) (5/16/2015 8:04:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Not tempted by the Empire then Joc?


I´m far, far, faaaar to sloppy and laze to play the empire. As the allies you can afford that. Call it margin for error! [:D]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
If he plays the Empire, then how will he lose the POW on turn 1?[:D]
Good luck! [sm=00000613.gif]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_opnFeTrj4M

Be nice! [:D]

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Wake up, Joc, wake up!

[image]local://upfiles/14248/7F1E317DEF124BE29C5D4ED2AF4D8285.gif[/image]


I´m always up. Two kids remember? I´ve forgotten what sleep feels like! [:D]




Lowpe -> RE: Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Olorin (J) (5/16/2015 8:24:41 PM)

Two kids aren't that tough[;)], it is when the third comes along and you are all of a sudden outnumbered.[X(]




JocMeister -> RE: Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Olorin (J) (5/16/2015 8:33:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Two kids aren't that tough[;)], it is when the third comes along and you are all of a sudden outnumbered.[X(]


Oh, there will be no more kids! Two is more then enough thank you! [:D]




BBfanboy -> RE: Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Olorin (J) (5/16/2015 10:54:48 PM)


Great to see you back Jocke! [:)]

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Not tempted by the Empire then Joc?


I´m far, far, faaaar to sloppy and laze to play the empire. As the allies you can afford that. Call it margin for error! [:D]
Be nice! [:D]



But you are going to try out the new super-Ironman scenario that NY59Giants and John III are playing, aren't you? [sm=00000117.gif]




MrKane -> RE: Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Olorin (J) (5/16/2015 11:15:25 PM)

So, rehab did not work and you are back on board. Happy to see you again here. Good luck Jocke.




obvert -> RE: Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Olorin (J) (5/16/2015 11:56:54 PM)

Settling in. Pouring the first of a few whiskeys. A special one, as this is an event to celebrate. Another "sheep" AAR! [:)]




[image]local://upfiles/37283/62DA7EFD1E93447895ABAA3DCCC08F1E.jpg[/image]




Lowpe -> RE: Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Olorin (J) (5/17/2015 12:57:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Settling in. Pouring the first of a few whiskeys. A special one, as this is an event to celebrate. Another "sheep" AAR! [:)]



Now, then, if you had a turn to work on you might not be drinking so much. Err, wait. I guess that depends solely on how the turn turns out. Come to think of it, either way would be a reason to imbibe. Cheers![sm=party-smiley-012.gif]






Lokasenna -> RE: Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Olorin (J) (5/17/2015 4:35:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Settling in. Pouring the first of a few whiskeys. A special one, as this is an event to celebrate. Another "sheep" AAR! [:)]



Now, then, if you had a turn to work on you might not be drinking so much. Err, wait. I guess that depends solely on how the turn turns out. Come to think of it, either way would be a reason to imbibe. Cheers![sm=party-smiley-012.gif]



Who needs reasons?




JocMeister -> RE: Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Olorin (J) (5/17/2015 6:12:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
Settling in. Pouring the first of a few whiskeys. A special one, as this is an event to celebrate. Another "sheep" AAR! [:)]
[image]local://upfiles/37283/62DA7EFD1E93447895ABAA3DCCC08F1E.jpg[/image]


Awesome! [:)]

No whiskey for me last night. Had some good beers though. [&o]

I have a nice Jura in the cabinet I´ll pour when doing the first turn.




JocMeister -> RE: Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Olorin (J) (5/17/2015 6:12:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
Who needs reasons?


[:D]




JocMeister -> RE: Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Olorin (J) (5/17/2015 6:48:25 AM)

Honey I´m hoooome! Now I just need to install Tracker which ALWAYS ends up in disaster for me...

Bloody Java... [:@]

[image]local://upfiles/32406/184E77B5A4F44B8FADC061893EF027BE.jpg[/image]




JocMeister -> RE: Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Olorin (J) (5/17/2015 12:16:31 PM)

Game Settings and HRs
______________________________________________________________________________

---------------------------------------
Scenario 30 with StackingLimits (DaIronBabes)
---------------------------------------

FOW ON
advanced Weather ON
Allied damage control ON
PDU OFF
historical first turn OFF
Dec 7 surprise ON
reliable USN torps OFF
realistic R&D ON
no unit withdrawals OFF

combat reports ON
auto sub ops OFF
TF move radius ON
plane move radius ON
facilities expand OFF
auto upgrade ships and airgroups OFF
auto air and ground replacements OFF


---------------
First turn HRs
---------------

1 CV port strike on turn 1
Only existing Allied TFs can move on first turn.
No new Allied TFs


---------
Game HRs
---------


No strategic bombing prior to July 1st 1943.
No strategic bombing in China for the duration of the war.
No 4Es on naval below 10k
PPs for moving restricted units beyond national borders.
Max altitude based on year.
Dec 1941- May 1942: 20,000
June 1942-Dec 1942: 25,000
1943: 30,000
1944--45: 35.000




JocMeister -> RE: Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Olorin (J) (5/17/2015 12:28:51 PM)

Normally I wouldn´t accept a SCEN 30/SCEN 2 game with a "No strat bombing in China" HR. It basically gives the Japanese a bastion of quite a lot of LI/HI including some free oil for the rest of the war. But as with all things in life playing AE is a compromise. I got my PDU OFF game and in exchange for that I give something away I wouldn´t normally do. [:)]

Other then that there is nothing special about the HRs. Initially Olorin suggested that 44 and 45 wouldn´t have an altitude limit. In a PDU ON game that is probably a good idea as the Allied can use some help in the air. But since this is a PDU OFF game I suggested we have a limit or most allied fighters could climb well above those of Japanese fighters getting the infamous "dive bonus".

I have very high hopes for the air war in this game. A max altitude limit together with PDU OFF should make this a very different experience then what I am used to. In Erik/GJ game we have seen Boomerangs and Mowhawks in combat for example. How cool is that? [:)]




BBfanboy -> RE: Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Olorin (J) (5/17/2015 2:18:03 PM)

So you are playing Olorin? You didn't mention an opponent specifically, and the post showing the game start menu is set to "Head to Head" rather than PBEM.
I presume you will use the extended map with stacking limits?




JocMeister -> RE: Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Olorin (J) (5/17/2015 2:42:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

So you are playing Olorin? You didn't mention an opponent specifically, and the post showing the game start menu is set to "Head to Head" rather than PBEM.
I presume you will use the extended map with stacking limits?


Yes, I´m playing Olorin. The screen was just to show I´ve gotten everything installed and setup. [:)]

Yup, extended map and SL. Not a fan of SL. But I´m not a fan of no SL either.




BBfanboy -> RE: Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Olorin (J) (5/17/2015 4:36:03 PM)

Do the changes to boost AA apply to your scenario? Would be a big help in the early months.




witpqs -> RE: Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Olorin (J) (5/17/2015 4:58:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Normally I wouldn´t accept a SCEN 30/SCEN 2 game with a "No strat bombing in China" HR. It basically gives the Japanese a bastion of quite a lot of LI/HI including some free oil for the rest of the war. But as with all things in life playing AE is a compromise. I got my PDU OFF game and in exchange for that I give something away I wouldn´t normally do. [:)]

Other then that there is nothing special about the HRs. Initially Olorin suggested that 44 and 45 wouldn´t have an altitude limit. In a PDU ON game that is probably a good idea as the Allied can use some help in the air. But since this is a PDU OFF game I suggested we have a limit or most allied fighters could climb well above those of Japanese fighters getting the infamous "dive bonus".

I have very high hopes for the air war in this game. A max altitude limit together with PDU OFF should make this a very different experience then what I am used to. In Erik/GJ game we have seen Boomerangs and Mowhawks in combat for example. How cool is that? [:)]

Does Hong Kong count as China for that HR? Serious question, as HK is a British base, not Chinese.




witpqs -> RE: Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Olorin (J) (5/17/2015 4:58:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

So you are playing Olorin? You didn't mention an opponent specifically, and the post showing the game start menu is set to "Head to Head" rather than PBEM.
I presume you will use the extended map with stacking limits?

[:D] They will be 'butting heads' - so it's head to head! [:D]




JocMeister -> RE: Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Olorin (J) (5/17/2015 5:00:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Do the changes to boost AA apply to your scenario? Would be a big help in the early months.


As far as I can understand its the DBB version of SCEN 2. So any DBB changes should be in there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs
Does Hong Kong count as China for that HR? Serious question, as HK is a British base, not Chinese.


That is indeed a good question! [X(] But I would assume its off limits.




BBfanboy -> RE: Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Olorin (J) (5/17/2015 5:36:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs
Does Hong Kong count as China for that HR? Serious question, as HK is a British base, not Chinese.


That is indeed a good question! [X(] But I would assume its off limits.


I had similar thoughts - how is it OK to invade and plant your flag on a Pacific Island that did not previously belong to you, but not an Indian city. India did not get its independence until after WWII. And places like Port Arthur could be claimed as "prior territory" by China, Manchuria, Russia, Japan and maybe Korea!
The status of foreign enclaves can be settled post-war, but certainly the PP should be minimal. I am sure Stalin did not willingly give up his conquests in the east and would not do so without some quid pro quo.




JocMeister -> RE: Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Olorin (J) (5/18/2015 7:19:18 AM)

Looked through the SCEN 30 a little bit last night. Noticed the plane stats have changed quite a lot. I guess its the changes Simon did that was incorporated into DBB? Most of the Japanese late war fighters have had their max ceiling reduced quite a bit and very few (if any?) can fly about 35k. So I suggested to Olorin that we should reduce the max alt to 30k from 43 all the way to the end.

Not sure I could resist the temptation of strato sweeping... [:D]

Olorin will start working on the dreaded first turn tomorrow. With some luck I might get sometime during the weekend.




BattleMoose -> RE: Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Olorin (J) (5/18/2015 7:43:07 AM)

Subscribed, looking forward to it!




obvert -> RE: Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Olorin (J) (5/18/2015 3:42:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Looked through the SCEN 30 a little bit last night. Noticed the plane stats have changed quite a lot. I guess its the changes Simon did that was incorporated into DBB? Most of the Japanese late war fighters have had their max ceiling reduced quite a bit and very few (if any?) can fly about 35k. So I suggested to Olorin that we should reduce the max alt to 30k from 43 all the way to the end.

Not sure I could resist the temptation of strato sweeping... [:D]

Olorin will start working on the dreaded first turn tomorrow. With some luck I might get sometime during the weekend.


If you're using Symon's new numbers there are a few things that stand out immediately:

1. The George is tough. Much better than in stock, and that is going to surprise you! It did me.

2. The Hellcat is also better than stock, and so by mid-43 the Allies actually have a top notch fighter in numbers, so that's good for you (and me). [:)]

3. The P-40E-K are slightly better, with the K being a pretty decent fighter for late 42-43. Especially since there are a lot of A6M and Oscars around.

4. The P-39 does really well defensively.

5. The later Oscars and A6M that he'll undoubtedly go for ASAP are very good in the middle game, years before they would have been deployed.

After 43 I can't help you, but based on Nick's experience with Mr Kane using these airframe stats I don't want to see the Ki-83 or the Ki-94. The Frank 'r' might also be a beast.

All in all it feels pretty balanced by late 42. In early 42 though, the A6M rules and because of the reduction in numbers of PDU-off, you have almost nothing to fight with. As it should be! Pick your spots well! [:D]


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

So you are playing Olorin? You didn't mention an opponent specifically, and the post showing the game start menu is set to "Head to Head" rather than PBEM.
I presume you will use the extended map with stacking limits?


Yes, I´m playing Olorin. The screen was just to show I´ve gotten everything installed and setup. [:)]

Yup, extended map and SL. Not a fan of SL. But I´m not a fan of no SL either.


I think you'll get to like SL. It's a big limiter fro both sides, and late he won't be able to stop you with 3k AV in a spot no matter what you bring, as I could in a few places. In China I think you can use them to your benefit early, and there are some very small choke points you can use to really slow things for the Japanese. He'll be using more supply to change over factories since he has to make virtually everything in PDU-off, so every bit you can bleed off his economy by forcing slower pace, more attacks, more bombing, the better.




MrKane -> RE: Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Olorin (J) (5/18/2015 4:00:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

If you're using Symon's new numbers there are a few things that stand out immediately:

1. The George is tough. Much better than in stock, and that is going to surprise you! It did me.

2. The Hellcat is also better than stock, and so by mid-43 the Allies actually have a top notch fighter in numbers, so that's good for you (and me). [:)]

3. The P-40E-K are slightly better, with the K being a pretty decent fighter for late 42-43. Especially since there are a lot of A6M and Oscars around.

4. The P-39 does really well defensively.

5. The later Oscars and A6M that he'll undoubtedly go for ASAP are very good in the middle game, years before they would have been deployed.

After 43 I can't help you, but based on Nick's experience with Mr Kane using these airframe stats I don't want to see the Ki-83 or the Ki-94. The Frank 'r' might also be a beast.

All in all it feels pretty balanced by late 42. In early 42 though, the A6M rules and because of the reduction in numbers of PDU-off, you have almost nothing to fight with. As it should be! Pick your spots well! [:D]


Well, Nick and I were playing without Symon's new a/c data. Anyway, Ki-84r was my warhorse for most of time for offensive missions. Ki-44-IIc was my main defensive fighters till '45.
Ki-83 is great but expensive and with PDU-OFF your opponent can upgrade only 2-3 units to that model.
The final model for most of Japan air units is Ki-94-II witch is good as offensive weapon, but it does not fit to be defender due to low climb rate.

Please be advised that not only N1K1 is beast now, but the same story has happen to J2M, too.




JocMeister -> RE: Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Olorin (J) (5/18/2015 4:48:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

If you're using Symon's new numbers there are a few things that stand out immediately:

1. The George is tough. Much better than in stock, and that is going to surprise you! It did me.

2. The Hellcat is also better than stock, and so by mid-43 the Allies actually have a top notch fighter in numbers, so that's good for you (and me). [:)]

3. The P-40E-K are slightly better, with the K being a pretty decent fighter for late 42-43. Especially since there are a lot of A6M and Oscars around.

4. The P-39 does really well defensively.

5. The later Oscars and A6M that he'll undoubtedly go for ASAP are very good in the middle game, years before they would have been deployed.

After 43 I can't help you, but based on Nick's experience with Mr Kane using these airframe stats I don't want to see the Ki-83 or the Ki-94. The Frank 'r' might also be a beast.

All in all it feels pretty balanced by late 42. In early 42 though, the A6M rules and because of the reduction in numbers of PDU-off, you have almost nothing to fight with. As it should be! Pick your spots well! [:D]



Are you sure about the P40? When I look at the new stats compared to an old save (that I think is stock) the P40s are almost identical. Same speed, 2 more MVR but worse climb? P39 is also worse with a lot lower climb. But perhaps all planes had their climb lowered? Didn´t notice much difference with the Hellcat either? But I´m not sure what I´m comparing with. I think its stock.

Is there a thread somewhere detailing the new changes?

Regarding SLs I really hated it China. Retreats causing overstacking which then burns supply. Yuck. I remember on particular nasty incident NW of Sian where Tom caused three retreats the same turn. All retreated to the same hex. BAM. Zero supply. 3000 AV gone. [:(]

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrKane
Well, Nick and I were playing without Symon's new a/c data. Anyway, Ki-84r was my warhorse for most of time for offensive missions. Ki-43-IIc was my main defensive fighters till '45.
Ki-83 is great but expensive and with PDU-OFF your opponent can upgrade only 2-3 units to that model.
The final model for most of Japan air units is Ki-94-II witch is good as offensive weapon, but it does not fit to be defender due to low climb rate.

Please be advised that not only N1K1 is beast now, but the same story has happen to J2M, too.


Just looked at the George and Jack. Jeeezuuus. [X(]






witpqs -> RE: Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Olorin (J) (5/18/2015 4:49:21 PM)

Frank will be tough. Not sure which model(s).




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