RE: Invasion West Coast! (Full Version)

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JocMeister -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/18/2016 7:23:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jmalter

hi JocMeister,

Given that you don't own Pearl, & that US West Coast ports have been a bit (ahem!) interdicted of late, I'd like to know how you're sending supply/fuel in support of your ops in the Port Blair & Solomons theatres.

What are your supply/fuel stocks at Cape Town?
1,5 million/140k

What shipping do you have on the USA EC / Cape Town route?
Nothing. [:)]

Are you using Strat Move to send LCUs & Airgroups between off-map ports?
Yes, most busy route is EC-Balboa but everything going for India goes EC-CT

Are you able to send new ships from the USA WC to Panama, do you have a back-log of ships that can't leave port?
Everything was evacuated when I lost PH and everything that arrived was immediately sent to Balboa. I lost 3 or 4 ships when the invasion fleet arrived but that it. Currently only have small shipping on the WC.

What is your plan to bring new ship construction into play?
A large # of USN ships are able to upgrade to APA/AKA in '43 - are these ships safe, & able to disband in a suitable port?

They are all in SOPAC and just delivered the invasion at PM and Milne. They are safely at Townesville now. They will move together with the fleet to new adventures shortly. [:)]





Canoerebel -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/19/2016 5:02:08 PM)

Jocke faces the vaccum-after-decisive-battle dilemma that most of us PBEMers have experienced. He has an opportunity that exists by virtue of an enemy that was focused elsewehre, suffered a catastrophic setback, and now has to scramble to get back into position.

Jocke will be able to push forward strongly for awhile, but his weighing of "how far and how fast" is "far and fast enough" will be interesting to watch. At some point, the whipped German Army that's been in full retreat for months, which could never hold its own again, suddenly turns and gives battle in the Ardennes.

Jeff should and will pay for his monomania, but as long as KB is intact, Jocke isn't free to go anywhere he wants in early '43. But it's interesting (and impressive) to see that he configured large offensive involving lots of planning and logistics in order to take advantage of the situation.

His moves aren't the sudden, shoestring moves of a victor caught unprepared to take advantage of victory.




Wuffer -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/20/2016 5:38:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

At some point, the whipped German Army that's been in full retreat for months, which could never hold its own again, suddenly turns and gives battle in the Ardennes.



While I share your concerns, I would think Korea serves much better as an example to illustrate the Clausewitz' term of overstreching the offensive.
A bit OT, but let me allow to introduce Operation Queen , especially the battle of Huertgen forest; unfortuneately, not only Market Garden underestimated the fanatic resistence... I might stress this a bit, because for political reasons a lot of potentiel very important lessons were not recognized, which maybe led to the nothern Korea disaster (Patton was really missed there).

sry for OT

edit: forgot the link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_advance_from_Paris_to_the_Rhine




Encircled -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/20/2016 12:34:10 PM)

quote:

Jocke will be able to push forward strongly for awhile, but his weighing of "how far and how fast" is "far and fast enough" will be interesting to watch. At some point, the whipped German Army that's been in full retreat for months, which could never hold its own again, suddenly turns and gives battle in the Ardennes.


I reckon Joc would be over the moon if Lowpe wasted his remaining reserves in a desperation attack that had little chance of success!




JocMeister -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/21/2016 5:10:49 PM)

Hi guys. Sorry for being absent lately. Work has been/is brutal right now. New client who has a massive backlog of work we need to complete for them.

No turn yet.

Off to bed.




Grfin Zeppelin -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/22/2016 8:02:55 PM)

So he didnt do a single ground attack bar some artillery probing in San Diego ?




JocMeister -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/23/2016 5:24:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

So he didnt do a single ground attack bar some artillery probing in San Diego ?


No attacks. Only bombardments. Which is a shame for me but a smart move on Jeffs part. I think he realized forts must be really high since his bombardments failed miserably. He took some heavy losses in those bombardments.

His naval bombardments pretty much achieved nothing either. So I bet he put two and two together.




JocMeister -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/23/2016 5:35:05 AM)

West Coast
_____________________________________________________________________________

Spotted a TF moving NE towards SD this turn. Is this the inevitable evacuation? Iīm not going to let him get out without blood though. Bombers close the AFs at Camp Pendleton and Santa Ana again. Donīt want him to have LBA cover.

300 Fighters spread out on bases around LA. Plan is to absolutely wreck the KB air wings using superior LBA (Corsairs, P47s, P38s and P40Ks). Once that is done LBA will start hitting the shipping together with PT boats and subs.

I have some 200 DBs and 50 TBs ready to strike. But I canīt take any losses so I will have to wait for fighters to clear the CAP.



[image]local://upfiles/32406/D4AD9FC6E4B04C5495F37F5C3DC898B1.jpg[/image]




JocMeister -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/23/2016 6:40:49 AM)

Andamans
_____________________________________________________________________________

The reinforcement effort here has gone by unhindered. We bolstered the engineers at both Port Blair and Little Andaman. Car Nicobar will be invaded shortly. I now have a strong CAP of 150 Hurricanes protecting the shipping together with a very strong naval presence. Given the range to Japanese LBA I doubt something will happen here.

Once everything is unloaded the fleet will retire for some R&R.

[image]local://upfiles/32406/CF09AFCD4AE546729EAFDD03B5C2C406.jpg[/image]




JocMeister -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/23/2016 6:43:02 AM)

New Guinea
_____________________________________________________________________________

No opposition on the other side of the world either. BFs will be landing at PM tomorrow. The base should be fully functional in a few days. When that happens we will continue with expansion.



[image]local://upfiles/32406/BEC96BC228304E82BC386279FE884D2A.jpg[/image]




JocMeister -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/23/2016 7:06:34 AM)

Allied planning
_____________________________________________________________________________

I finally decided on how to proceed. Or rather how not to....

I know a lot of you would like to see a "coup the grace" landing somewhere right in the middle of things. This was also my plan with Pencil II. But the Paper and Pencil operations clearly show one thing: The allies are not yet capable of such a landing. While combat troops are plentiful we lack proper shipping for such an operation. Using xAPs/xAKs would mean several days of unloading outside Allied LBA. This is not doable without heavy losses. To further worsen things I cannot land enough combat troops, supply and BFs in one go. This means I would have to go in twice. I donīt have enough CV power for that. Iīm still flying Wildkittens from only 3 Fleet CVs. That means maybe 50-70 Kittens on CAP at best. Simply not enough for sustained fighting. CVEs can to a small extent fill the gap but Iīm chronically short on F4Fs. Right now I have 6 in the pool and 10+ squadrons completely empty of planes.

People who have read my earlier AARs know I donīt shy away from losses if I deem them worthwhile for a bigger goal. In this case I feel its unwarranted. Its still February 43. Iīm a full year ahead of schedule. AV is completely out of the picture. There is simply no need for unnecessary risks at this stage.

To further complicate the situation I have to plan on a Japanese response in about 6 months. The imminent fall of Chungking will free up even more troops and I estimate in 6 moths time Japan will have 12-16 divisions available together with the WC troops. Whatever I do NOW will have to be able to deal with that in 6 months. Again: This is early 43 and not 44. While the allies are stronger than they were 1 year ago Japan is still stronger in most areas.

My plan is simple. I will continue to advance slowly but surely on the broadest possible front. In fact I plan on opening two new fronts during spring. I want to dissipate Japanese forces into the largest area possibly. KB will be a big factor in the coming year. Luckily for me Jeff doesnīt have much choice in the deployment of KB. Given Allied possession of Andamans KB will have to babysit the DEI and Thai coast. KB will be at Singers for sure.

Patience is a virtue. Sorry to disappoint you guys but I have to do what I deem best. Trust me on this. Its the right thing to do. [:)]




JocMeister -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/23/2016 7:13:33 AM)

VP score
_____________________________________________________________________________

This is why Iīm in no hurry...Japanese VP will be given a bump with the fall of Chungking. But I suspect it will be with less than Jeff expects. About half the Chinese army has fled elsewhere. They will be back in a year or two... [:)]

[image]local://upfiles/32406/D073F521B0184945AA6181FF4A4D3E0F.jpg[/image]




Grollub -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/23/2016 10:28:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Allied planning
_____________________________________________________________________________

I finally decided on how to proceed. Or rather how not to....

I know a lot of you would like to see a "coup the grace" landing somewhere right in the middle of things. This was also my plan with Pencil II. But the Paper and Pencil operations clearly show one thing: The allies are not yet capable of such a landing. While combat troops are plentiful we lack proper shipping for such an operation. Using xAPs/xAKs would mean several days of unloading outside Allied LBA. This is not doable without heavy losses. To further worsen things I cannot land enough combat troops, supply and BFs in one go. This means I would have to go in twice. I donīt have enough CV power for that. Iīm still flying Wildkittens from only 3 Fleet CVs. That means maybe 50-70 Kittens on CAP at best. Simply not enough for sustained fighting. CVEs can to a small extent fill the gap but Iīm chronically short on F4Fs. Right now I have 6 in the pool and 10+ squadrons completely empty of planes.

People who have read my earlier AARs know I donīt shy away from losses if I deem them worthwhile for a bigger goal. In this case I feel its unwarranted. Its still February 43. Iīm a full year ahead of schedule. AV is completely out of the picture. There is simply no need for unnecessary risks at this stage.

To further complicate the situation I have to plan on a Japanese response in about 6 months. The imminent fall of Chungking will free up even more troops and I estimate in 6 moths time Japan will have 12-16 divisions available together with the WC troops. Whatever I do NOW will have to be able to deal with that in 6 months. Again: This is early 43 and not 44. While the allies are stronger than they were 1 year ago Japan is still stronger in most areas.

My plan is simple. I will continue to advance slowly but surely on the broadest possible front. In fact I plan on opening two new fronts during spring. I want to dissipate Japanese forces into the largest area possibly. KB will be a big factor in the coming year. Luckily for me Jeff doesnīt have much choice in the deployment of KB. Given Allied possession of Andamans KB will have to babysit the DEI and Thai coast. KB will be at Singers for sure.

Patience is a virtue. Sorry to disappoint you guys but I have to do what I deem best. Trust me on this. Its the right thing to do. [:)]


Good analysis Joc.




JocMeister -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/23/2016 5:22:01 PM)

February 6th -43
_____________________________________________________________________________

Some action this turn. Havnīt gotten the turn yet though. But at the start of the turn something sank. Shouldnīt be anything allied...

quote:

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Feb 06, 43
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Groot Natoena at 60,84

Japanese Ships
xAP Miike Maru, Torpedo hits 1
xAP Yoshino Maru
xAP Tatsuta Maru
DD Oboro

Allied Ships
SS Sculpin

Japanese ground losses:
14 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)


quote:

Sub attack near San Diego at 223,88

Japanese Ships
AO Kokuyo Maru, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS S-42


[image]local://upfiles/32406/BEEB93B90AB94E57AB399FA4F662E9B3.jpg[/image]




JocMeister -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/23/2016 5:25:05 PM)

Andamans
_____________________________________________________________________________

I was wrong. Japan strike towards the unloading cargo ships. But CAP is strong and the distance too long.

quote:

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Little Andaman at 44,59

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 6 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 1 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 11
Ki-48-IIb Lily x 31


Allied aircraft
Martlet II x 7
Hurricane IIb Trop x 9
Hurricane IIc Trop x 8
F4F-3 Wildcat x 14
F4F-4 Wildcat x 22


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 2 destroyed
Ki-48-IIb Lily: 19 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 2 destroyed


[image]local://upfiles/32406/2E6904295D5E408D8AA55BE4EB76A50E.jpg[/image]




BBfanboy -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/23/2016 5:29:52 PM)

Disappointing that you only got two of the Zeros on escort duty. Do you have your Hurricanes flying high CAP? IIRC they have the best maneuver ratings at altitude - better than the Zero even.




JocMeister -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/23/2016 5:30:20 PM)

PM
_____________________________________________________________________________

Jeff probably tries to evacuate some troops from Buna. Allied TBs strike. Not sure why the DBs didnīt deal with this.

quote:

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Buna at 99,129

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-46 KAI Dinah x 1

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 11
TBF-1 Avenger x 8


No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
xAK Nippo Maru, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x TBF-1 Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22.4in Mk 13 Torp.


[image]local://upfiles/32406/B7E8859231A247AF836B5212C20222C7.jpg[/image]




JocMeister -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/23/2016 5:34:34 PM)

Milne liberated!
_____________________________________________________________________________

Huzzah!

quote:

Ground combat at Milne Bay (101,133)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 3135 troops, 100 guns, 23 vehicles, Assault Value = 215

Defending force 420 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 16

Allied adjusted assault: 170

Japanese adjusted defense: 3

Allied assault odds: 56 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied forces CAPTURE Milne Bay !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(-), fatigue(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
198 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 7 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Units retreated 1


Allied ground losses:
16 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
1st Australian Division

Defending units:
2nd Indpt SNLF Coy


[image]local://upfiles/32406/AD0E49CE67324E39B8F9BCB489769E55.jpg[/image]




JocMeister -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/23/2016 5:45:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Disappointing that you only got two of the Zeros on escort duty. Do you have your Hurricanes flying high CAP? IIRC they have the best maneuver ratings at altitude - better than the Zero even.


Nope, they are all down on 10k to protect the shipping. Canīt unload a radar until the port is expanded or I find some NavSupport so I donīt want to try anything fancy!





Canoerebel -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/23/2016 6:03:09 PM)

I agree with your planning, Jocke. To go too far too fast would invite trouble. You've planned well so that you are able to move forward strongly and methodically, which should work well against a beleagured enemy.

Have you given any thought to how Jeff is likely to perceive what's going on, how he's likely to react, and the risks he's likely to take? Jeff probably thinks he's no in a very dangerous position, KB off somewhere else, a vital mission to attend to the West Coast, and lots of undefended territory between New Guinea and the Home Islands. You aren't planning to invade Okinawa tomorrow, but he doesn't know that. If you give the appearance of going deep soon it might goad him into taking chances that you can take advantage off.

Send some DDs/CLs raiding deep; use long-range recon and patrols to sniff out far behind the main lines, organize some sham invasion TFs to probe his detection levels here and there, lighting up his radar screen with apparent threats.

You're probably doing all those things and more, but I like thinking aloud. :)




JocMeister -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/23/2016 8:05:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I agree with your planning, Jocke. To go too far too fast would invite trouble. You've planned well so that you are able to move forward strongly and methodically, which should work well against a beleagured enemy.

Have you given any thought to how Jeff is likely to perceive what's going on, how he's likely to react, and the risks he's likely to take? Jeff probably thinks he's no in a very dangerous position, KB off somewhere else, a vital mission to attend to the West Coast, and lots of undefended territory between New Guinea and the Home Islands. You aren't planning to invade Okinawa tomorrow, but he doesn't know that. If you give the appearance of going deep soon it might goad him into taking chances that you can take advantage off.

Send some DDs/CLs raiding deep; use long-range recon and patrols to sniff out far behind the main lines, organize some sham invasion TFs to probe his detection levels here and there, lighting up his radar screen with apparent threats.

You're probably doing all those things and more, but I like thinking aloud. :)


Good question. I think he is very nervous about the DEI. I know I would be. And I think he expects me to land either in Thailand or Sumatra very shortly. I bet he spent a lot of PPs buying out divisions from China and sending them to Thailand. Nothing confirmed by SIGINT yet though but I would be very surprised if he doesnīt have 2-3 divisions in Bangkok by now. I also bet he REALLY wants his WC troops to bolster his defenses...so I think he will try and evacuate them.

If I were him...I would start digging like a madman in the Kuriles, Marianas, New Guinea and everywhere else. And then sacrifice troops to buy time for more digging. He needs to get a defensive perimeter up. Right now he doesnīt have one. The WC troops would be enough to slow me down for a long time. I bet he is willing to sacrifice a lot to get them out...I guess we will know shortly... [:)]

I havnīt started probing much yet. Fleet is still tied up with PM and Andamans. I am raiding the LOC between WC and PH though and I have gotten pretty close to PH without being detected... [:)]




poodlebrain -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/24/2016 5:07:51 AM)

quote:

If I were him...I would start digging like a madman in the Kuriles, Marianas, New Guinea and everywhere else. And then sacrifice troops to buy time for more digging. He needs to get a defensive perimeter up. Right now he doesnīt have one. The WC troops would be enough to slow me down for a long time. I bet he is willing to sacrifice a lot to get them out...I guess we will know shortly...
If I were you I would attempt to get inside that line of defense before he gets it established. You know his time frame for reinforcing with any units extracted from the WC. You know he has limited naval forces with which to challenge you. Once you have established a base the Japanese have two options. Either try and eliminate the base, or dedicate enough force to prevent you from exploiting it. Either option requires a commitment of assets that will be unavailable for use elsewhere. And you will be amassing the resources to strike at more than one elsewheres.

I've always bee a fan of operations to capture Moulmein and Pegu. Supplying forces in Burma becomes very difficult with SLOC to Rangoon under Allied LBA. Start prepping the LCUs now, and go as soon as you finish APA/AKA conversions.




Lokasenna -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/25/2016 4:30:10 AM)

When do you get your first AGC and HQm? With a 100% prepped HQm on an AGC in-hex, your xAPs and xAKs will unload extremely fast.




JocMeister -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/25/2016 5:59:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

When do you get your first AGC and HQm? With a 100% prepped HQm on an AGC in-hex, your xAPs and xAKs will unload extremely fast.


First AGC is in October...[:(]




JocMeister -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/26/2016 5:25:25 PM)

West Coast
_____________________________________________________________________________

Is this a relief attempt. Or an evacuation attempt? Closed Santa Ana and Camp Pendleton again so he will have to make do with KB alone for CAP. I know what I would do if I were him...lets see how he plays this.

I donīt envy his situation. He could very well lose KB or parts of it in the coming days. One thing is for sure though. If he still have any of the KB pilots left they wonīt survive the coming week! P47s, Corsairs, P38s and P40Ks are eagerly awaiting them! [sm=00000028.gif]

[image]local://upfiles/32406/BFC7804FB2E04253A05434F9837C8963.jpg[/image]




JohnDillworth -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/26/2016 6:17:30 PM)

It's the kitchen sink and it's a pickup. He has nothing left to bring so he is going to grab what he can. I wonder if he can get a piece of everything? Something is better than nothing but I don't play as the the Japanese so I don't know what he priorities are. I think AC on both sides are going to be the big losers




paullus99 -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/27/2016 3:41:14 PM)

I would agree - he's not going to throw good money after bad here - the BB's are going to bombard to try to disrupt your troops, so you can't attack while he'll pulling men and equipment off the beach.

Obviously, the carriers are there for whatever aircover they can provide during the evacuation.




Macclan5 -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/27/2016 3:57:26 PM)

What if its a "double down bet" ??

What if he is landing anything he can from the Solomans' / Rabul and or Central Pac to make and all or nothing grab for San Diego / Los Angeles?

I have followed through the threads... you look prepared to defend with forts / units / airforce coverage,,, just dont know what we could bring a shore (?!)

It would leave him an empty shell afterwards but...

Just a thought... please don't quote me..




Encircled -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/27/2016 3:57:58 PM)

I play the Japanese a lot, and he's going to miss those troops, esp as some by now will be experience 90+

But I'm not sure he's not better served just sacrificing them, rather than running the risk of more damage to the IJN.

He can replace troops, he can't replace the IJN




BBfanboy -> RE: Invasion West Coast! (9/27/2016 4:08:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

I play the Japanese a lot, and he's going to miss those troops, esp as some by now will be experience 90+

But I'm not sure he's not better served just sacrificing them, rather than running the risk of more damage to the IJN.

He can replace troops, he can't replace the IJN

I agree. IJHQ needs to implement a massive breeding program so it can replace the lost troops in about 18 years. The men left on the home front will have to carry their burden until then. [:D]




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