Possible bug that removes some FoW? (Full Version)

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richlove -> Possible bug that removes some FoW? (5/28/2015 6:25:23 PM)

I'm running v 1.7.11, inside VMWare on a Mac, so this may be bogus.

See image below. When you are looking at an airgroup list and you mouse over a recon group that is targeting a hex (not a base), the pop up appears to tell you the name of (one? random?) LCU there. I am not in contact w/ the 66th Infantry Group but I know that that unit is in the hex. It was just ejected from Buna.

I have tested with two other recon groups targeting units outside of bases. Happens there too.

[image]local://upfiles/31763/C4F22E73D3E047079AB61A0FE4CADAC5.jpg[/image]



Trugrit -> RE: Possible bug that removes some FoW? (5/29/2015 6:41:04 PM)


It is not bogus. This is normal. The recon group will tag a ground unit and lock onto it and track it hex to hex. I think it will lock onto the unit on the top of the stack but I’ve never tested it.The stack is sorted with combat units on the top.

There are several quirks associated with recon missions. This is not a bug. Working as Designed (WAD)

Also note, if you set a recon mission to an empty ground Hex, the game engine will examine the hex.
If it doesn’t see an enemy unit the groups target is automatically reset to Commander Discretion and the game will pick other targets if they are available.
If the game picks other targets they will be enemy base targets.
You need to be careful with recon outside of base hexes because the game can fly the Recon group into heavy CAP or AA and get them shot up. They are too valuable to get shot up like this.

If the game does see an enemy unit in the hex the group’s target remains set on that hex and will
Begin to track a unit found hex to hex. You will get a spotting report if the DL increase shows the unit on the tactical map.

Note that if the groups target remains set on the hex; this indicates that it is enemy occupied.
Sometimes you will not be able to see the enemy on the tactical map but you will know
An enemy unit is in the hex because the groups target will remain set on that hex.
This happens most often when a non-recon type plane performs ground recon.
(As Alfred pointed out to me once the MDL is not high enough for you to see the target on the map)
If you keep flying missions into the hex the unit will show up on the tactical map as MDL increases.

I recommend that if you are going to recon empty hexes outside of a base hex that you use a bomber group set to Recon at high altitude.
You won’t get good recon results but the bomber group will spot hidden enemy ground forces in the hex.
If the hex is empty and the game should fly the bomber group over an Enemy base there is less chance of it getting shot up.

Then, after you have spotted the enemy ground unit you can send in a dedicated recon group to get Better results if you need to.




michaelm75au -> RE: Possible bug that removes some FoW? (5/30/2015 1:49:20 AM)

From memory, in the original WITP, you could only recon hexes that HAD units present. So it you could set up the mission, and just keep clicking on hexes until one took. Then you knew there was a unit there - you could map out enemy locations fairly well before issuing your orders.
In AE, we changed it so you recon hexes rather than units which makes it more realistic.



richlove -> RE: Possible bug that removes some FoW? (5/31/2015 8:27:05 PM)

Sorry, I'm still not seeing how this isn't a bug. If a unit is visible on the map (for example, they're in a neighboring hex) then via a mouse over, I can tell what unit - not the size, or vehicles, or guns - the actual name of that unit in that hex, without running a turn, or without engaging in combat w/ them. Compare it to the unit detail (image below) - same recon group, but here the target says the hex.

[image]local://upfiles/31763/6F0D388B64DF4438A5FD98D586147558.jpg[/image]



Trugrit -> RE: Possible bug that removes some FoW? (6/1/2015 12:16:13 PM)


I could be wrong but I don’t think this is a bug.
A bug is something that is not designed into the game. Something the game designers did not intend.
In this case it is obvious to me that the game engine did not “accidentally” pick up the exact unit name and then “accidentally” put it in the fly out as the target.

Whether or not that was a good design decision is another question.
For you and me, we can’t discuss it rationally because we don’t know the reason.
Maybe it is there because if it were not there it would break something else important in the game. Etc…
Maybe taking it out would require 5,000 additional lines of code.

In this case both sides get the same information so you have game balance.
It may conflict some with real world recon but not very much.

The air unit screen only shows your orders to the group as to the hex to be searched and not what the one or two pilots flying the mission actually did on the mission.

Just squint your eyes and believe your recon pilot when he tells you he read the units shoulder patch from 20,000 feet. How do you know he didn’t disobey his orders and fly in at 80 feet just over the jungle Canopy. He might have more guts than you know. That is more like pilots in the real world. Especially F-4 pilots.




witpqs -> RE: Possible bug that removes some FoW? (6/1/2015 3:37:19 PM)

I recall the change as Michael lays it out, and it is a dramatic improvement.

What richlove points out is a place in the interface where the targeted unit's name can be viewed by the opponent. AFAIK that is new information, not necessarily new in the interface, but I'm not aware of anybody noticing it before.

I strongly doubt that was intended and I believe it was merely an oversight.

As far as changing it goes, of course if it is big then my advice would be leave it the way it is. After all, a similar FOW breach occurs each time a ground unit is attacked (but not when the unit is missed entirely) by air bombardment or by naval bombardment. Units' names are displayed in the combat report. That is a FOW breach, but (IIRC) would require big changes and so it remains that way and we are all aware of it. BTW, even casualties in the combat report might be a FOW breach if they are not subject to deliberate and variable mis-reporting (aka FOW). But we know about it and it's how it is.

I've made jokes in my own AAR about bombers flying low enough so that a crew member could read shoulder patches with 12 power binoculars. Yes it not perfect, but no it is not a disaster either. It fits right in with the limitations of FOW in the combat report, so I really doubt if it is worth the effort required to change it.



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