RE: Freedom of Speech (Full Version)

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> World in Flames



Message

zakblood -> RE: Freedom of Speech (6/6/2015 1:33:22 PM)

do you take card?



warspite1 -> RE: Freedom of Speech (6/6/2015 1:40:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

do you take card?
warspite1

I do but there is a handling fee of £2.50 so its up to you.

[sits back, a malevolent smile creeps across the handsome, chiselled features of warspite1 as he twirls his moustache]

warspite1

Hee hee, the old rule 37 trick, oldest trick in the book. This time next year I'll be a millionaire!! Mwahahahahahaha



zakblood -> RE: Freedom of Speech (6/6/2015 1:42:21 PM)

well when i said card, i forgot to mention board[:D][;)]



warspite1 -> RE: Freedom of Speech (6/6/2015 1:45:02 PM)

Rats! Foiled again.......



joshuamnave -> RE: Freedom of Speech (6/6/2015 10:50:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

In addition, I then posted replies that covered the more relevant parts of the thread in other threads, which hopefully answered the original poster's question and those of others there.

If I missed responding to a question, please post it again and I'll reply.

Regards,

- Erik



Actually I posted a whole list of questions that were germane to the thread shortly before it was closed. None have been answered.

As to closing the thread, I'm sure the reason this thread got closed while other threads that contain just as many insults between posters remain open is that the thread in question was directed toward a Matrix representative, ensuring that it was read by him. That the other threads weren't shut down has more to do with the fact that nobody at Matrix really gives a #$@$ about MWIF so those threads just never got noticed.



rkr1958 -> RE: Freedom of Speech (6/7/2015 12:15:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

As to closing the thread, I'm sure the reason this thread got closed while other threads that contain just as many insults between posters remain open is that the thread in question was directed toward a Matrix representative, ensuring that it was read by him. That the other threads weren't shut down has more to do with the fact that nobody at Matrix really gives a #$@$ about MWIF so those threads just never got noticed.
I disagree 100% with that statement. I'm a mod, not active anymore, on the Slitherine Commander Europe at War forum. I believe Slitherine owns Matrix now (or maybe it's reverse). But it's the same compan, same philosophy and same management. As a forum mod, the direction I was given by their "senior management" was to let things go as long as it didn't get too nasty or personal. There were times, maybe once a year, where I'd lock a thread because, in my opinion, it had degenerated to that point. That wasn't very often really but as a mod I didn't tolerate personal attacks. I would "nicely" warn folks first but if it continued I would shut the thread down (i.e., lock it). And believe me, I was more "intolerant" over personal attacks against others than any directed at me.

Another thing, and maybe I'm too old school or just old, I would allow discussion and cruse words at the PG-13 level or lower. If someone "violated" that I was edit their post to change the "offending" word to something like "#$%#@", usually it was the f-word. I would then gently warn the user to watch their language.

So I have to say my moderating style, though I felt was open, is much more restrictive than I see going on here. So I respectable disagree with those posters that feel Matrix is trying to stifle free speech. In my opinion, they've been generous in what they've allowed and I respect that. And I do respect those that disagree with me. Ain't free speech great!

With respect to the comment and implication that no one with Matrix is reading all threads. I disagree with that too. I bet Steve does because occasionally he'll respond to some question or request that frankly I though was in one of those threads he wouldn't be following because he has more "important" things on his plate to take care of than following such a thread. But I gather, he is keenly interested in keeping track how things are going gamewise. All of this by the way is conjuncture on my part and probably have less information on this than most of you here.



Joseignacio -> RE: Freedom of Speech (6/8/2015 9:14:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I recently read a succinct summary of Freedom of Speech and it's far, far, more important application to the world today and incitements to violence. The US Government is limited by the Constitution in possible limiting of Freedom of Speech in public. A media company, even an American one and let alone a global one, has no such restriction and is thus not prohibited from keeping people from using a privately funded media platform to say things like "Kill __________"

I think Twitter and many other platforms (YouTube) will increasingly realize the drawbacks of unlimited Free Speech.


Incitement to violence, like we read somebody's post and because of that we go burn somebody...[:-]

You people are calling for:

[image]https://pma507pty.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/big-brother2.png[/image]

it would seen daddy and mummy are needed so people don't piss on themselves. Having their own responsibility, wow, no! That's terrible, people would be Free! My God!




Joseignacio -> RE: Freedom of Speech (6/8/2015 9:19:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

no such thing apart from in your mind as freedom of speech anyway (post not a reply to anyone either), i don't own the game, and aren't here to flame anyone, but a forum is for all it's members, sometimes those in charge / command need to call a choice one way or another, while some agree others don't, this is life, life isn't and never has been fair, your parents all lied to you, some times it's better to move on and forget about the past and what has and hasn't been said and take the higher road, the one that leads to know where and move on.

i offend as often as i help, but don't mean to, it's just a word taken out of context that once typed can't be taken back once read, that's life, we all make them *(mistakes that is), but some of us don't learn by them and carry on making the same ones over and over again.

i've been a moderator on a number of forums for years, and now don't do any for many reasons, the main one is everyone thinks they are right all or most of the time, when in fact they are wrong, to admit your wrong is a step to enlightenment and tbh i'm always wrong so must be ready for nirvana now.

why post this, why not.




Yes, although this very defect is even more frequent in the Moderators, [:D] They use to have God complex... They can be extremely enlightened.



Joseignacio -> RE: Freedom of Speech (6/8/2015 9:27:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

The thread was closed because Warspite was trolling. Free speech is all well and good, until a bad apple comes along and spoils the whole bunch. I'm happy to say my own exemplary attitude has not in any way been tainted by the actions of reprobates and scoundrels. More threads should be closed, in fact.



The frying pan told the pot: "go away,you are tarnishing me" [:D]



Erik Rutins -> RE: Freedom of Speech (6/8/2015 2:16:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zartacla
Actually I posted a whole list of questions that were germane to the thread shortly before it was closed. None have been answered.


If they have not been answered and I can answer them, I will. Can you point me to the ones you would like answered and I'll see if I can help?

On your second point, I'm afraid you are entirely off-base.

Regards,

- Erik




joshuamnave -> RE: Freedom of Speech (6/8/2015 2:56:35 PM)

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3872179



wworld7 -> RE: Freedom of Speech (6/8/2015 3:19:16 PM)

Erik,

I copied this from the other thread as best I could.



Zartacla's questions below



I agree with pretty much all of this, but there are issues not addressed.

Look, let's just get the elephant in the middle of the room out of the way. Steve is not in the best of health. I don't say that to be insensitive, but because so long as Matrix is unable or unwilling to assign additional coders to this project, it's an issue. What I want to know is what happens to MWiF if Steve is unable to continue working on it due to further health declines? Is Matrix prepared to commit additional resources in that unfortunate event or will we be left with MWiF in whatever state it's in at that time? If not, will Matrix release the code so that other hobbyists can try to work through the remaining bugs?

In the last state of the game update, about a year and a half ago, Erik said that someone was coming on to help with networking issues. No mention of that has even been made since then. Did that happen, and if so what was the result? If not, why not?

The switch to a public beta for patches has meant fewer patches with just as many regression bugs and very rare changes from the beta patch to the official patch. Has there been any discussion of going back to a more frequent patch schedule with smaller updates in each patch?

Given the number of bugs still remaining and the frustration among those of us not blessed with the debug tool, has there been any more discussion of releasing the debug tool to the rest of us?

While I once supported letting the beta testers have a private forum for discussion and communication with Steve, we've reached the point where there are less than 20 or so regular posters on this forum. Having a separate forum for some of them now feels exclusionary at best and at worst fosters feelings of distrust between the few remaining beta testers and some of the rest of us. Has there been any discussion of either opening the beta forum to everyone or discontinuing the beta testing, since we're all part of the public beta now anyway?

Is there still a practical, realistic plan to release an AI? If so, are you still planning on charging us for it?

Once lost, trust is a difficult thing to get back. Does Matrix have any ideas or thoughts on how to regain the trust of its customers or are there too few of us to matter at this point?





Erik Rutins -> RE: Freedom of Speech (6/8/2015 3:26:44 PM)

Ok, taking these in order:

quote:

Look, let's just get the elephant in the middle of the room out of the way. Steve is not in the best of health. I don't say that to be insensitive, but because so long as Matrix is unable or unwilling to assign additional coders to this project, it's an issue. What I want to know is what happens to MWiF if Steve is unable to continue working on it due to further health declines? Is Matrix prepared to commit additional resources in that unfortunate event or will we be left with MWiF in whatever state it's in at that time? If not, will Matrix release the code so that other hobbyists can try to work through the remaining bugs?


Realistically, I'm not sure anyone other than Steve can achieve the mastery of both the game and the code required to be of any assistance. We all certainly hope for Steve's good health and we've been careful to make sure, going back to pre-release, that he is balancing his workload so that it does not affect his health negatively and allows him to continue to work on MWIF for the long-term.

I cannot think of anyone other than Steve that could possibly have gotten it this far and I can't think of anyone else who has a realistic chance of getting it to where it needs to go. He has put an incredible amount of effort in both programming and organization and communication with the community into all this and continues to do so. The testers who have also helped MWIF and stuck with it have been an incredible help. This is a project that I think 99/100 times would have never seen the light of day, if it was even taken on by any other programmer or company.

As far as worst case scenarios, we would do whatever we could to allow MWIF to continue - Steve also has a say in that, but I hope we never have to discuss specifics on that.

quote:

In the last state of the game update, about a year and a half ago, Erik said that someone was coming on to help with networking issues. No mention of that has even been made since then. Did that happen, and if so what was the result? If not, why not?


Yes, that help was provided, but the issues relating to NetPlay are really internal to the game rather than networking issues related to our server. The incredible complexity of the game means that getting every last bug out both in NetPlay and solitaire, has been far beyond any other process we've experienced. We are a computer game company and MWIF simply blows everything else we've ever made away in terms of the complexity of getting it debugged and working for all the nearly infinite combinations of playstyle, play choices, optional rules, etc. Both Steve's and our own estimates have consistently been off - even apparently trivial bugs can take much longer than expected to fully resolve.

quote:

The switch to a public beta for patches has meant fewer patches with just as many regression bugs and very rare changes from the beta patch to the official patch. Has there been any discussion of going back to a more frequent patch schedule with smaller updates in each patch?


We don't have a rule that says it should now take longer and so we haven't discussed releasing more frequently, we've just been going as fast as we can.

Public betas actually allows us to catch more issues before an update goes official and reaches all customers instead of just a fraction. The upcoming beta updates have just been in development and testing longer than the previous ones both because of the time it takes to test out certain fixes (especially NetPlay) and because we've been waiting to get to a good point and in this case there have been a lot of "this could be the build.. no wait" moments. You can't really predict those, but there have been many, many internal iterations for each public beta posted to the community. In many cases, those internal iterations had game-breaking bugs and I'm quite glad to wait for a release build we have confidence in.

quote:

Given the number of bugs still remaining and the frustration among those of us not blessed with the debug tool, has there been any more discussion of releasing the debug tool to the rest of us?


I have not discussed that with Steve, but I'll raise it with him the next time we speak.

quote:

While I once supported letting the beta testers have a private forum for discussion and communication with Steve, we've reached the point where there are less than 20 or so regular posters on this forum. Having a separate forum for some of them now feels exclusionary at best and at worst fosters feelings of distrust between the few remaining beta testers and some of the rest of us. Has there been any discussion of either opening the beta forum to everyone or discontinuing the beta testing, since we're all part of the public beta now anyway?


While we could potentially do that, from where I am sitting there is still value in it. As mentioned above, the nature of the game is that the more frequent builds sometimes include major bugs and I'd rather not put the larger pool of customers through that as they did not volunteer for it. We've found over the years that opening up that process more often doesn't work because customer expectations are very different in terms of updates than tester expectations.

quote:

Is there still a practical, realistic plan to release an AI? If so, are you still planning on charging us for it?


There is a plan that I believe will work in theory, but it's clearly very difficult to predict the timeline when fixing and improving issues with the existing features is still in progress. Steve very much wants to work on the AI, so as the issues diminish to a point that we all consider reasonable, I'm confident that Steve will want to move forward on that. Because of the uncertain timeline, there has been no decision on future sale or pricing plans. I would expect that decision to be made when we reach that point and with both Steve involved and the community feedback strongly considered.

quote:

Once lost, trust is a difficult thing to get back. Does Matrix have any ideas or thoughts on how to regain the trust of its customers or are there too few of us to matter at this point?


The only way I know to regain trust is the hard way - to keep on going, working and earn it back. I recognize that the shape of the release cost us trust with the WIF community. I've posted regarding the release before, but in short I'm sorry and I wish we could have done better by you all. The ongoing work and commmitment on MWIF is our best answer to the community and we consider this a commitment to get this right.

Regards,

- Erik



bo -> RE: Freedom of Speech (6/8/2015 4:00:24 PM)

I have just finished reading Flippers very honest concerned post about about the state of MWIF. I feel his question were very legitimate and from the heart with no animosity against Steve, yourself or Matrix.

With that said, Erik you answered all questions to the best of your knowledge without evasion or ambiguity. I feel this is what the posters have been looking for over the last year or so and have not received that which may have led to mistrust as mentioned by Flipper.

They may be looking beyond your answers but that is up to them, I have knowledge of the state of MWIF from the beta testing posts but the general posters do not and it might lead to despair and mistrust for themselves, I feel your answers were correct and forthcoming to Flipper and hope he appreciates the honesty of the answers.

With all that said you should keep the general public informed as best you can and as often as you can over the next year even if you have nothing to say. That is a big change for me to say that as I felt if you are not getting information from the programmer what could you possibly have to say.

I have come to the conclusion that even if you have nothing to say, say it anyway. Good post Erik keep them coming.

Bo



warspite1 -> RE: Freedom of Speech (6/8/2015 4:04:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

I have just finished reading Flippers very honest concerned post about about the state of MWIF. I feel his question were very legitimate and from the heart with no animosity against Steve, yourself or Matrix.

With that said, Erik you answered all questions to the best of your knowledge without evasion or ambiguity. I feel this is what the posters have been looking for over the last year or so and have not received that which may have led to mistrust as mentioned by Flipper.

They may be looking beyond your answers but that is up to them, I have knowledge of the state of MWIF from the beta testing posts but the general posters do not and it might lead to despair and mistrust for themselves, I feel your answers were correct and forthcoming to Flipper and hope he appreciates the honesty of the answers.

With all that said you should keep the general public informed as best you can and as often as you can over the next year even if you have nothing to say. That is a big change for me to say that as I felt if you are not getting information from the programmer what could you possibly have to say.

I have come to the conclusion that even if you have nothing to say, say it anyway. Good post Erik keep them coming.

Bo
warspite1

bo, purely for the sake of good order, these were Zartacla's questions not flipperwasirish's.



bo -> RE: Freedom of Speech (6/8/2015 4:20:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

I have just finished reading Flippers very honest concerned post about about the state of MWIF. I feel his question were very legitimate and from the heart with no animosity against Steve, yourself or Matrix.

With that said, Erik you answered all questions to the best of your knowledge without evasion or ambiguity. I feel this is what the posters have been looking for over the last year or so and have not received that which may have led to mistrust as mentioned by Flipper.

They may be looking beyond your answers but that is up to them, I have knowledge of the state of MWIF from the beta testing posts but the general posters do not and it might lead to despair and mistrust for themselves, I feel your answers were correct and forthcoming to Flipper and hope he appreciates the honesty of the answers.

With all that said you should keep the general public informed as best you can and as often as you can over the next year even if you have nothing to say. That is a big change for me to say that as I felt if you are not getting information from the programmer what could you possibly have to say.

I have come to the conclusion that even if you have nothing to say, say it anyway. Good post Erik keep them coming.

Bo
warspite1

bo, purely for the sake of good order, these were Zartacla's questions not flipperwasirish's.



Thank you warspite I knew that but I was answering the moderator of Zartacla's questions which was Flipper and Flipper surely must have the same concerns or he would not have brought up those questions on his post. But my main concern was Erik's answers.

Bo



wworld7 -> RE: Freedom of Speech (6/8/2015 6:10:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

Thank you warspite I knew that but I was answering the moderator of Zartacla's questions which was Flipper and Flipper surely must have the same concerns or he would not have brought up those questions on his post. But my main concern was Erik's answers.

Bo


Hi Bo, all I did was copy Zartacla's questions from the other thread so Erik could expend as little time as possible to answer.
I am moderator of nothing, those days were long ago, and had no connection to Matrix Games.

For the record, I do not share ALL of Zartacla's concerns and disagree with the premise of a few. But I see no need to waste time expanding on my views on his list.



bo -> RE: Freedom of Speech (6/8/2015 6:16:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish


quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

Thank you warspite I knew that but I was answering the moderator of Zartacla's questions which was Flipper and Flipper surely must have the same concerns or he would not have brought up those questions on his post. But my main concern was Erik's answers.

Bo


Hi Bo, all I did was copy Zartacla's questions from the other thread so Erik could expend as little time as possible to answer.
I am moderator of nothing, those days were long ago, and had no connection to Matrix Games.

For the record, I do not share ALL of Zartacla's concerns and disagree with the premise of a few. But I see no need to waste time expanding on my views on his list.



flipper my bad, then I misunderstood which is par for the course lately [:(] I was still more concerned about Erik answering which he seems to be doing that very well lately. Understood [;)] Damn warspite was right again [:(] as usual [;)]

Bo



operating -> RE: Freedom of Speech (6/8/2015 6:48:09 PM)

Popped a couple of pills, smoked a fat joint, now everything is starting to make sense to me....[sm=00000924.gif]



wworld7 -> RE: Freedom of Speech (6/9/2015 6:06:35 AM)

Bo,

Forget it, I just didn't want anyone to think I was a moderator of the MWIF forum. Most users would see that Steve is the only one, but some
would incorrectly assume I was also. Trust me, Matrix's forum moderators do a far better job than I could.

Something to remember when you think a thread should be closed or not? Undoubtedly there are many posts, in many threads, in many forums that
moderators ONLY read if someone asks them to (could be a user, could be the Help Desk (if their is a complaint).

If a complaint is lodged I am sure the Help Desk notifies Erik in some way (due to his position) and he deals with it as best he can.





bo -> RE: Freedom of Speech (6/9/2015 3:58:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

Bo,

Forget it, I just didn't want anyone to think I was a moderator of the MWIF forum. Most users would see that Steve is the only one, but some
would incorrectly assume I was also. Trust me, Matrix's forum moderators do a far better job than I could.

Something to remember when you think a thread should be closed or not? Undoubtedly there are many posts, in many threads, in many forums that
moderators ONLY read if someone asks them to (could be a user, could be the Help Desk (if their is a complaint).

If a complaint is lodged I am sure the Help Desk notifies Erik in some way (due to his position) and he deals with it as best he can.





Appreciate the info flipper will keep that in mind.

Bo



Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]

Valid CSS!




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI
0.96875