When can i attack with the Chinese?

When can i attack with the Chinese? (Full Version)

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MAARTENR -> When can i attack with the Chinese? (6/11/2015 4:07:14 PM)
I'm playing in the year 1943 how should i attack the Japanese with mine Chinese forces?

Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: When can i attack with the Chinese? (6/11/2015 4:17:46 PM)
As soon as you have significant supplies available

MAARTENR -> RE: When can i attack with the Chinese? (6/11/2015 4:29:16 PM)
ok thanx[:D]

spence -> RE: When can i attack with the Chinese? (6/12/2015 10:24:43 PM)
The Chinese are best used for a riposte to Japanese overstretching. The game somehow imagines that the only reason that the stalemate could not be broken in China (that existed before 12/07/41) was that Japan didn't have enough enemies. Once they had taken on pretty much the whole world they would be perfectly positioned to finish off China.[X(] Don't try to out-power the Japanese. let them stick their necks out. Then surround them and cut them off. Make sure you recon what you're about to fight before you fight it. Japanese battalions and regiments and even divisions can be seriously screwed up when they're operating on their own. Japanese armor is great on the attack since you have few AT guns but it $ucks when it's way out front and defending on its own.

Treetop64 -> RE: When can i attack with the Chinese? (6/13/2015 6:27:39 AM)
The problem with doing anything aggressive with Chinese forces is that they are chronically short on supplies. Offensive operations of any scale will see a huge increase of demand of supplies. If you were short to begin with, you won't go far once you get started, and you end up wasting some of your units for proportionally little gain (if any), waiting literally months for those forces to replenish, while many other uninvolved formations are now in the red because their stuff was siphoned off to support your operation. First, start repairing Chinese Light and Heavy Industry. This will take what seems like forever, because the most efficient way of doing this in China is allowing only one HI or LI unit at a time to repair, while repair for all other Chinese HI and LI are turned off. Next, if you still hold Rangoon and have adequate air cover there, stuff in as much supply shipping convoys as you can practically afford to - depending on your priorities and planning, of course. Much of any surplus will take the road into Chunking, then gets distributed. Realistically, I wouldn't plan any offensive operations in China until at least late-43, or later. Until then, put them in good static defensive positions in difficult terrain that have paths or roads (to help the supply flow easier). Keep them there and let them swell up, while the supply situation is sorted out, if ever, depending on how your game pans out. Of course, if you're playing against a human opponent, well...

RogerJNeilson -> RE: When can i attack with the Chinese? (6/13/2015 7:04:26 AM)
Its September 1944 in one of my games and the Chinese were pretty much under siege in Chungking until a few months ago. I have now re-established an overland supply route and they are beginning to take out understrength and under supplied cut off Japanese forces, but its a slow process. A key aspect is the devices they have as there may be a lot of 'willing' bodies but most units that have been chewed up or out of decent supply for a long time have little other than old rifles to use. Where they are receiving supplies, have been resting and recovering and are 'bulking out' in numbers, plus they are getting artillery back they are beginning to show promise. Roger

m10bob -> RE: When can i attack with the Chinese? (6/13/2015 2:14:59 PM)
I agree with all prior posters. I have defeated the Japanese in China several times, several games and one major lesson I learned is you MUST refrain from the temptation of trying to battle for more than one city at a time. Attack ONE Chinese city at a time and pour everything into that one battle. Use as many air transport squadrons as you can to keep Chungking and your forward bases in supply. Any Chinese unit you lose will re-appear in a damaged state at Chungking later so expect them as reinforcements. If Chinese cities need a garrison force, don't be afraid to split ONE infantry unit to satisfy THREE of those garrison requirements.(No need to keep a "300 strength" LCU away from the front for a single city.) You will NEVER have enough Chinese air assets so depend on allied squadrons and get their ground support to China as well.

zuluhour -> RE: When can i attack with the Chinese? (6/13/2015 3:06:53 PM)
[:D]

Yaab -> RE: When can i attack with the Chinese? (6/21/2015 5:12:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: m10bob I agree with all prior posters. I have defeated the Japanese in China several times, several games and one major lesson I learned is you MUST refrain from the temptation of trying to battle for more than one city at a time. Attack ONE Chinese city at a time and pour everything into that one battle. Use as many air transport squadrons as you can to keep Chungking and your forward bases in supply. Any Chinese unit you lose will re-appear in a damaged state at Chungking later so expect them as reinforcements. If Chinese cities need a garrison force, don't be afraid to split ONE infantry unit to satisfy THREE of those garrison requirements.(No need to keep a "300 strength" LCU away from the front for a single city.) You will NEVER have enough Chinese air assets so depend on allied squadrons and get their ground support to China as well. Actually, the Chines have several light corps that max out at 182 AV, so you can split them into three small 60 AV sub-units. Perfect for garrisoning duties.

geofflambert -> RE: When can i attack with the Chinese? (6/21/2015 4:35:56 PM)
Train every pilot you can (Chinese)to be fighter pilots. Train the bomber crews on general training and get them up to 50 defense skill then switch them to fighter planes and train on escort. Once you get those American planes you should be able to kick his butt in the air if you use them carefully. He can't afford to put his best pilots in China or his best planes either. You do have to be careful though as your air recruits are limited. Don't even try to take him on with those antique Soviet planes. Also move everything that has enough range to the Chunking area as early as possible.

geofflambert -> RE: When can i attack with the Chinese? (6/21/2015 5:17:48 PM)
Another thing. Send all the US construction engineers you can to India. You also need more air support and naval support engineers there. The US has them coming out of their ears. Send some right away and more as they become available. An air HQ might be a good idea too. Maybe two. Send all the transports you've got except save some in the pacific for airborne infantry and moving light troops from base to base. The following is just a suggestion. US Army divisions and armored units (Army). Send a bunch of them to India also. I feel you can actually send up to half of the USA LCUs there. You don't have the ability or capacity to use them all in the Pacific anyway and they'll just be sitting on their hands. Fighter squadrons too. P-39's or P-40's at first. Chew the crap out of him in Burma. He'll send every available reinforcement or you'll be in Bangkok by '43. Send no Marines, neither ground nor air. A good balance in the Pacific is (IMHO) one Army Division for each Marine Division. In Burma put the USAA on the attack with sweeps and restrict the Commonwealth fighters to airbase/navalbase defense. I don't think it's appropriate to send US bombers there; just send fighters and transports and (maybe) a recon unit. Send the Liberator transports there, you'll need them to keep northern China alive. You can send them some Navy squadrons especially if they're going to operate off British carriers. There's nothing wrong with that. Replace the antiques and short range planes and use them for defense or training. I'd send a Dauntless squadron but not necessarily a TB squadron. Some Wildcats. Not right away though. Ships? Probably not, but it depends on your losses. No US carriers. Can't afford to lose them in the Indian Ocean. The British carriers should not tangle with Japanese carriers. Just use them to interdict shipping and raids on bases when you know where his carriers are or at least how far away.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: When can i attack with the Chinese? (6/21/2015 8:44:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: geofflambert Another thing. Send all the US construction engineers you can to India. You also need more air support and naval support engineers there. The US has them coming out of their ears. Send some right away and more as they become available. An air HQ might be a good idea too. Maybe two. Send all the transports you've got except save some in the pacific for airborne infantry and moving light troops from base to base. The following is just a suggestion. US Army divisions and armored units (Army). Send a bunch of them to India also. I feel you can actually send up to half of the USA LCUs there. You don't have the ability or capacity to use them all in the Pacific anyway and they'll just be sitting on their hands. Fighter squadrons too. P-39's or P-40's at first. Chew the crap out of him in Burma. He'll send every available reinforcement or you'll be in Bangkok by '43. Send no Marines, neither ground nor air. A good balance in the Pacific is (IMHO) one Army Division for each Marine Division. In Burma put the USAA on the attack with sweeps and restrict the Commonwealth fighters to airbase/navalbase defense. I don't think it's appropriate to send US bombers there; just send fighters and transports and (maybe) a recon unit. Send the Liberator transports there, you'll need them to keep northern China alive. You can send them some Navy squadrons especially if they're going to operate off British carriers. There's nothing wrong with that. Replace the antiques and short range planes and use them for defense or training. I'd send a Dauntless squadron but not necessarily a TB squadron. Some Wildcats. Not right away though. Ships? Probably not, but it depends on your losses. No US carriers. Can't afford to lose them in the Indian Ocean. The British carriers should not tangle with Japanese carriers. Just use them to interdict shipping and raids on bases when you know where his carriers are or at least how far away. Huh. I don't do any of this. In fact I do 180 degrees of this on almost every item. There is no one "right" way to play. But IMO anyone who DOESN'T send 4Es to destroy industry from bases in range of China is using them incorrectly. So there.[8D]

geofflambert -> RE: When can i attack with the Chinese? (6/22/2015 1:49:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 quote: ORIGINAL: geofflambert Another thing. Send all the US construction engineers you can to India. You also need more air support and naval support engineers there. The US has them coming out of their ears. Send some right away and more as they become available. An air HQ might be a good idea too. Maybe two. Send all the transports you've got except save some in the pacific for airborne infantry and moving light troops from base to base. The following is just a suggestion. US Army divisions and armored units (Army). Send a bunch of them to India also. I feel you can actually send up to half of the USA LCUs there. You don't have the ability or capacity to use them all in the Pacific anyway and they'll just be sitting on their hands. Fighter squadrons too. P-39's or P-40's at first. Chew the crap out of him in Burma. He'll send every available reinforcement or you'll be in Bangkok by '43. Send no Marines, neither ground nor air. A good balance in the Pacific is (IMHO) one Army Division for each Marine Division. In Burma put the USAA on the attack with sweeps and restrict the Commonwealth fighters to airbase/navalbase defense. I don't think it's appropriate to send US bombers there; just send fighters and transports and (maybe) a recon unit. Send the Liberator transports there, you'll need them to keep northern China alive. You can send them some Navy squadrons especially if they're going to operate off British carriers. There's nothing wrong with that. Replace the antiques and short range planes and use them for defense or training. I'd send a Dauntless squadron but not necessarily a TB squadron. Some Wildcats. Not right away though. Ships? Probably not, but it depends on your losses. No US carriers. Can't afford to lose them in the Indian Ocean. The British carriers should not tangle with Japanese carriers. Just use them to interdict shipping and raids on bases when you know where his carriers are or at least how far away. Huh. I don't do any of this. In fact I do 180 degrees of this on almost every item. There is no one "right" way to play. But IMO anyone who DOESN'T send 4Es to destroy industry from bases in range of China is using them incorrectly. So there.[8D] So you're saying base 4E's in the Phillipines to bomb China? Why? What industry are you so worked up about? 4E bombers should be bombing Japan if they can with not too many losses. Are you saying the US should send Liberators and/or Fortresses to China if they can bomb Japan? I have no problem with that if you also have escort. I didn't say anything about 4E bombers, just Liberator transports. Are you OK?

Jim D Burns -> RE: When can i attack with the Chinese? (6/22/2015 2:14:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Treetop64 First, start repairing Chinese Light and Heavy Industry. It will take 1000 turns to recoup the cost of the repair, the game will be almost over before you're back where you started. It makes no sense at all to repair industry in China. Ship supplies in via air lift that's the only way to help China's supply situation. Jim

geofflambert -> RE: When can i attack with the Chinese? (6/22/2015 2:19:54 AM)
Capturing Burma and Rangoon in particular won't hurt.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: When can i attack with the Chinese? (6/22/2015 3:25:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: geofflambert quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 quote: ORIGINAL: geofflambert Another thing. Send all the US construction engineers you can to India. You also need more air support and naval support engineers there. The US has them coming out of their ears. Send some right away and more as they become available. An air HQ might be a good idea too. Maybe two. Send all the transports you've got except save some in the pacific for airborne infantry and moving light troops from base to base. The following is just a suggestion. US Army divisions and armored units (Army). Send a bunch of them to India also. I feel you can actually send up to half of the USA LCUs there. You don't have the ability or capacity to use them all in the Pacific anyway and they'll just be sitting on their hands. Fighter squadrons too. P-39's or P-40's at first. Chew the crap out of him in Burma. He'll send every available reinforcement or you'll be in Bangkok by '43. Send no Marines, neither ground nor air. A good balance in the Pacific is (IMHO) one Army Division for each Marine Division. In Burma put the USAA on the attack with sweeps and restrict the Commonwealth fighters to airbase/navalbase defense. I don't think it's appropriate to send US bombers there; just send fighters and transports and (maybe) a recon unit. Send the Liberator transports there, you'll need them to keep northern China alive. You can send them some Navy squadrons especially if they're going to operate off British carriers. There's nothing wrong with that. Replace the antiques and short range planes and use them for defense or training. I'd send a Dauntless squadron but not necessarily a TB squadron. Some Wildcats. Not right away though. Ships? Probably not, but it depends on your losses. No US carriers. Can't afford to lose them in the Indian Ocean. The British carriers should not tangle with Japanese carriers. Just use them to interdict shipping and raids on bases when you know where his carriers are or at least how far away. Huh. I don't do any of this. In fact I do 180 degrees of this on almost every item. There is no one "right" way to play. But IMO anyone who DOESN'T send 4Es to destroy industry from bases in range of China is using them incorrectly. So there.[8D] So you're saying base 4E's in the Phillipines to bomb China? Why? What industry are you so worked up about? 4E bombers should be bombing Japan if they can with not too many losses. Are you saying the US should send Liberators and/or Fortresses to China if they can bomb Japan? I have no problem with that if you also have escort. I didn't say anything about 4E bombers, just Liberator transports. Are you OK? Can you read your own quote? The OP asked about 1943. I'm talking about 1943. I can't tell when you're talking about; you're all over the park.

geofflambert -> RE: When can i attack with the Chinese? (6/22/2015 3:51:01 PM)
I'm talking about 1943 as well, but you're right.* I would not strategic bomb any Chinese city but industry is fair game. That is to say I wasn't reading your* quote properly. [8\|]

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: When can i attack with the Chinese? (6/22/2015 5:25:26 PM)
Cool.

mind_messing -> RE: When can i attack with the Chinese? (6/22/2015 5:29:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 quote: ORIGINAL: geofflambert Another thing. Send all the US construction engineers you can to India. You also need more air support and naval support engineers there. The US has them coming out of their ears. Send some right away and more as they become available. An air HQ might be a good idea too. Maybe two. Send all the transports you've got except save some in the pacific for airborne infantry and moving light troops from base to base. The following is just a suggestion. US Army divisions and armored units (Army). Send a bunch of them to India also. I feel you can actually send up to half of the USA LCUs there. You don't have the ability or capacity to use them all in the Pacific anyway and they'll just be sitting on their hands. Fighter squadrons too. P-39's or P-40's at first. Chew the crap out of him in Burma. He'll send every available reinforcement or you'll be in Bangkok by '43. Send no Marines, neither ground nor air. A good balance in the Pacific is (IMHO) one Army Division for each Marine Division. In Burma put the USAA on the attack with sweeps and restrict the Commonwealth fighters to airbase/navalbase defense. I don't think it's appropriate to send US bombers there; just send fighters and transports and (maybe) a recon unit. Send the Liberator transports there, you'll need them to keep northern China alive. You can send them some Navy squadrons especially if they're going to operate off British carriers. There's nothing wrong with that. Replace the antiques and short range planes and use them for defense or training. I'd send a Dauntless squadron but not necessarily a TB squadron. Some Wildcats. Not right away though. Ships? Probably not, but it depends on your losses. No US carriers. Can't afford to lose them in the Indian Ocean. The British carriers should not tangle with Japanese carriers. Just use them to interdict shipping and raids on bases when you know where his carriers are or at least how far away. Huh. I don't do any of this. In fact I do 180 degrees of this on almost every item. There is no one "right" way to play. But IMO anyone who DOESN'T send 4Es to destroy industry from bases in range of China is using them incorrectly. So there.[8D] Hmm. That's a use for the 4E's that start in the PI in '41 that I hadn't considered... It may actually be the best way to use them: if I was Japan and B-17s flying from China in December '41 starting firebombing Canton and Shanghai, I'd be pretty worried. Remind me to never play PBEM with you...

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: When can i attack with the Chinese? (6/22/2015 7:37:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mind_messing Hmm. That's a use for the 4E's that start in the PI in '41 that I hadn't considered... It may actually be the best way to use them: if I was Japan and B-17s flying from China in December '41 starting firebombing Canton and Shanghai, I'd be pretty worried. Remind me to never play PBEM with you... December 1941 would be tough. A long way to run from the PI and the D model has no pools to speak of. It's longer range, but it doesn't age well. If you could get 20 or so to China though you could do some damage for a few days. There are only a few AFs that could handle them and they eat supply like crazy, but yeah, you could do some. By mid-1942 it's very possible to mount a decent anti-economy campaign from Ledo and Jorhat. You can reach Chungking and Chengtu easily, as well as the K-cities south of the mountains. Often there's no damage, but every point of HI or LI you can burn is supplies that don't get made. Eventually you get that one squadron of British really-long-range 4Es--can't recall the model now but I think it's 24 hexes range. I've bombed all the way to Hong Kong as well as Urumchi with that one. You have to baby it, but it is a pretty useful little eye-gouger until you get B-29s.

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