Reasonable goals for a Japanese player against a human (Full Version)

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godochaos -> Reasonable goals for a Japanese player against a human (6/12/2015 4:46:52 PM)

By the time the landing bonus ends(april 42?) what do you think is a reasonable achievable set of goals for a Japanese player to have achieved against a human player in PBEM?

I'm inclined to say:
Sing and PI of course
Most of Borneo/Balikpapan
Palembang
Port Moresby
Guadalcanal?
Ambon
Java at least mostly subdued?
Rangoon?



Dante Fierro -> RE: Reasonable goals for a Japanese player against a human (6/12/2015 4:51:00 PM)

San Francisco dude!



rustysi -> RE: Reasonable goals for a Japanese player against a human (6/12/2015 9:01:54 PM)

quote:

I'm inclined to say:
Sing and PI of course
Most of Borneo/Balikpapan All
Palembang
Port Moresby
Guadalcanal? Yes
Ambon
Java at least mostly subdued?
Rangoon?


A lot is made of the landing bonus ending in Apr42. To me at least this is not the end of the Japanese threat, and should not be viewed as such. Japan has a number of large vessels that may convert to AK's and AK-t's, she has two LSD's by that time too. These can be used to extend landings to wherever Japan sees fit, or to finish up in the above regions if she hasn't already done so. Granted the above vessels are not as good as true assault ships, but you'll be surprised what they can dump ashore in a day. That being said the xAK's and xAP's are very poor assault ships, but even they could land small units at remote/undefended bases if necessary.

To the above I'd like to add the island of Timor and the adjoining archipelago. These to be used as a barrier into the SRA from the east. May necessitate the need to invade/eliminate Darwin as a base, at least temporarily.



Feltan -> RE: Reasonable goals for a Japanese player against a human (6/13/2015 2:38:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: godochaos

By the time the landing bonus ends(april 42?) what do you think is a reasonable achievable set of goals for a Japanese player to have achieved against a human player in PBEM?

I'm inclined to say:
Sing and PI of course
Most of Borneo/Balikpapan
Palembang
Port Moresby
Guadalcanal?
Ambon
Java at least mostly subdued?
Rangoon?



I would think a reasonable goal is all of the above. It is IMHO, in fact, a necessity to have all of those. The real question is what after that?

The Japanese should still be on the offensive and hold the initiative though Jun/Jul '42 at a minimum. Things will start slowing down for Japan during that timeframe, but they should still be making forward progress.

Regards,
Feltan



rustysi -> RE: Reasonable goals for a Japanese player against a human (6/13/2015 3:13:47 AM)

Agree with Feltan.



morejeffs -> RE: Reasonable goals for a Japanese player against a human (6/13/2015 8:42:28 AM)

As an Allied player...It really depends on the scenario...The Japanese will get most that...But a scenario 1 situation means
that the allies (or at least me as the allies) will not do a full Sir Robin. I will lose it..but will try to attrition you as much as possible.

But a scenario 2. (which is utterly ridiculous from a historical point of view....at least the RA scenario gives a smarter Japan, not a faked beefed up Japan) means that where the allies might fight (and even if lose, cause Japan to take a lot more time) means as much Sir Robin as possible....



Lokasenna -> RE: Reasonable goals for a Japanese player against a human (6/13/2015 1:38:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: morejeffs

As an Allied player...It really depends on the scenario...The Japanese will get most that...But a scenario 1 situation means
that the allies (or at least me as the allies) will not do a full Sir Robin. I will lose it..but will try to attrition you as much as possible.

But a scenario 2. (which is utterly ridiculous from a historical point of view....at least the RA scenario gives a smarter Japan, not a faked beefed up Japan) means that where the allies might fight (and even if lose, cause Japan to take a lot more time) means as much Sir Robin as possible....


Much of the extra LCUs in Scen 2 don't come until later, after the bonus is ended. They help with phase 2, but not with phase 1.

Also, I find your continued bitterness about Scen 2 funny. You don't have to play it, you know.



morejeffs -> RE: Reasonable goals for a Japanese player against a human (6/13/2015 2:08:28 PM)

True...the LCUs do not come in right away...But there is some bump up in offensive capability (vs historical) and there are some more
air assets I think as well (as well as the fact that the bumped up economy means the choices that the Japanese have to make in scen 1 are less of an issue). And even if the Dec 1941 numbers are not bumped up...Certainly they are bumped up by Mar 1942.... So the defensive line that the allies would at least like to form in Scen 1 are very different from scen 2.

I think most of the Japanese commanders understand that scen 2 is a fantasy (Japan was already spending about 1/3 of its budget on the military in the late 1930s early 1940s...So the huge bump up is....rather impossible.. That said...they could have done better in terms of planning/procurement.

True I do not have to play 2 (I think I did once a long time ago). I am not bitter about it...But it should be noted it is a fantasy.



Lokasenna -> RE: Reasonable goals for a Japanese player against a human (6/13/2015 6:52:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: morejeffs

True...the LCUs do not come in right away...But there is some bump up in offensive capability (vs historical) and there are some more
air assets I think as well (as well as the fact that the bumped up economy means the choices that the Japanese have to make in scen 1 are less of an issue). And even if the Dec 1941 numbers are not bumped up...Certainly they are bumped up by Mar 1942.... So the defensive line that the allies would at least like to form in Scen 1 are very different from scen 2.

I think most of the Japanese commanders understand that scen 2 is a fantasy (Japan was already spending about 1/3 of its budget on the military in the late 1930s early 1940s...So the huge bump up is....rather impossible.. That said...they could have done better in terms of planning/procurement.

True I do not have to play 2 (I think I did once a long time ago). I am not bitter about it...But it should be noted it is a fantasy.


I don't think anyone thinks it's historical. It's also not nearly as fantastical as is being implied. It's not a "huge bump up" so much as it is a nudge.

Also, it depends much more on the opponents and what happens in the game than it does on the scenario. In my two games as the Allies, one is scenario 1 and the second is scenario 2. In the scenario 1 game, I was pushed back much farther than I ever was in scenario 2. The VPs are likewise way different, with the game I am playing against a scenario 2 Japan progressing far better than the one against a scenario 1 Japan.



GetAssista -> RE: Reasonable goals for a Japanese player against a human (6/13/2015 8:37:18 PM)

godochaos, also add Adak to your list.

Always view your goals in the light of future downfall. Necessity of securing oil/fuel goes w/o saying. With grabbing other key real estate early you 1) dislodge Allies while them still weak 2) get a headstart in building your defences 3) prevent allies from bombing your oil/fuel. Initial phase of expansion is dependent on how your opponent is playing (Sir Robin is relaxing), so if you can expand your island defensive perimeter farther in the Pacific (Baker/Canton/Noumea), go for it but don't sweat and don't commit too much troops afterwards. Fortified atolls serve as speedbumps in 1943-44.
Available AKs can be used through 1942 to add some more real estate like Ceylon/Fiji but that's about it. Other grabbing should be viewed as a carrier bait rather than expansion



godochaos -> RE: Reasonable goals for a Japanese player against a human (6/15/2015 1:49:28 PM)

I've never quite understood the Japanese need for Alaskan Adventures, its seems like expenditure of resources for little gain

Why not wait until around the time a US player would be sending their reinforcements up there and do a little surface raid to catch some transports, then ignore the whole thing? who cares about ALaska?
I've only played USA so I could be terribly wrong!

Basically i'm starting this thread because I may be giving it a try at playing the Rising Sun against a human opponent soon, I think i'm trying to get a feel for why, and what and when as far as what to try to grab in the first 4 months.

Why go for India over Australia, or vice versa? Make an early dash for Darwin before Ambon? Seize Canton and then raid along the shipping lanes from USA to Aus?
I think before I play I want to set some high level strategic goals that are ambitious but attainable



Amoral -> RE: Reasonable goals for a Japanese player against a human (6/15/2015 6:51:14 PM)

If the allies are established in the Aluteians they only have to make one amphibious leap to the Kuriles. From the Kuriles they can bomb your aircraft factories to dust.



wdolson -> RE: Reasonable goals for a Japanese player against a human (6/16/2015 1:27:29 AM)

If the US had started bombing the Kuriles from the Aleutians early in the war, it would have been bad for PR. By taking Kiska and Attu, they made sure the US would be unable to bomb Japanese territory.

By the time Kiska and Attu were retaken, the war was going to badly for the Japanese, some long range bombing of the Kuriles was a relatively minor concern compared to everything else going wrong.

Bill



Chickenboy -> RE: Reasonable goals for a Japanese player against a human (6/16/2015 4:07:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: godochaos

By the time the landing bonus ends(april 42?) what do you think is a reasonable achievable set of goals for a Japanese player to have achieved against a human player in PBEM?

I'm inclined to say:
Sing and PI of course
Most of Borneo/Balikpapan
Palembang
Port Moresby
Guadalcanal?
Ambon
Java at least mostly subdued?
Rangoon?



My opinion is that a historical list of 'achievables' (by the April 1942 timeline) is a good benchmark, particularly for a scenario 1 game.

You needn't completely destroy all PI Allied presence by April 1942, just make sure it's bottled up and ineffective, 'withering on the vine'-per historical norms. Then capture it at your leisure during the Summer of 1942 after starving them out.




rustysi -> RE: Reasonable goals for a Japanese player against a human (6/16/2015 9:17:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

If the US had started bombing the Kuriles from the Aleutians early in the war, it would have been bad for PR. By taking Kiska and Attu, they made sure the US would be unable to bomb Japanese territory.

By the time Kiska and Attu were retaken, the war was going to badly for the Japanese, some long range bombing of the Kuriles was a relatively minor concern compared to everything else going wrong.

Bill


When I was in the military one of my possible duty assignments was to the island of Shemya. Now I was fortunate and never went there, but ran into several others who had. I've also seen some film footage circa WWII of the region. That said the weather for much of the year is horrible and the terrain is hardly conducive to large scale military ops. The later is reflected in the base options available in the game. As I haven't had much experience in the game in this region, my question here is how well is the weather depicted? Being what it is in reality I would imagine it should restrict ops for much of the year.



panzer cat -> RE: Reasonable goals for a Japanese player against a human (6/16/2015 9:28:26 PM)

Darwin, otherwise it will develop into a sub and strategic bomber base.



wdolson -> RE: Reasonable goals for a Japanese player against a human (6/17/2015 2:06:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

If the US had started bombing the Kuriles from the Aleutians early in the war, it would have been bad for PR. By taking Kiska and Attu, they made sure the US would be unable to bomb Japanese territory.

By the time Kiska and Attu were retaken, the war was going to badly for the Japanese, some long range bombing of the Kuriles was a relatively minor concern compared to everything else going wrong.

Bill


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi
When I was in the military one of my possible duty assignments was to the island of Shemya. Now I was fortunate and never went there, but ran into several others who had. I've also seen some film footage circa WWII of the region. That said the weather for much of the year is horrible and the terrain is hardly conducive to large scale military ops. The later is reflected in the base options available in the game. As I haven't had much experience in the game in this region, my question here is how well is the weather depicted? Being what it is in reality I would imagine it should restrict ops for much of the year.



My father was sent to Attu in June 1945 to film the bombing effort of the Kuriles from there. He has a very low opinion of Attu.

Bill



oaltinyay -> RE: Reasonable goals for a Japanese player against a human (6/20/2015 8:01:48 AM)

In my 2 games as japanese ( one finished )



I blocked Australia down to Fİji ,
Held tahiti with reasonable effectiveness in one
captured and held Akyab in one
Sing and PI
All of Borneo/Balikpapan
Palembang
Port Moresby - never held it.
Guadalcanal - size 5 AF
Ambon - Size 4 AF held by a regiment of my best sardaukars.
Java
Rangoon held in one but got starved.



leehunt27@bloomberg.net -> RE: Reasonable goals for a Japanese player against a human (6/28/2015 2:10:22 AM)

godochaos, In addition to your list, i think at least one to two major strategic points in addition. Darwin being a great example, or Sri Lanka. I did learn in my current PBEM Game (now in May 1944) that the Japanese economy can have a hard time expanding much beyond historical though. You can burn an insane amount of fuel and leave a lot of troops stranded. Pulling back in time is a major finesse effort. I lost 50,000 troops in Noumea, though was fortunate enough to sink a large amount of US BB's and CV's in the process. But i left Burma too weak trying to take the deep South Pacific. So, pick your targets and plan your exits!


Sing and PI of course
Most of Borneo/Balikpapan
Palembang
Port Moresby
Guadalcanal?
Ambon
Java at least mostly subdued?
Rangoon?



John 3rd -> RE: Reasonable goals for a Japanese player against a human (6/30/2015 11:39:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: panzer cat

Darwin, otherwise it will develop into a sub and strategic bomber base.


I was going to add NW Aust. MUST take it to make an entry into the SE DEI much more difficult.



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