Kates not flying (Full Version)

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AdmNelson -> Kates not flying (7/3/2015 1:50:42 AM)

I am in a game and for the last three days the Kates from from 6 CVs and 4CVLs have not flown in naval strikes whiles the vals have. All Kates are set to range 7 and torpedo and TFs have torpedos. any suggestions on what I might try. Thanks

AdmNelson



Lokasenna -> RE: Kates not flying (7/3/2015 1:53:06 AM)

What is the unit morale? Have you gotten any messages such as "failed to link up" or "loses flight cohesion" or "returning to base"?

What about the skill levels of the leaders?



Numdydar -> RE: Kates not flying (7/3/2015 2:13:46 AM)

Have you run out of torps on the CVs?



AdmNelson -> RE: Kates not flying (7/3/2015 2:42:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

What is the unit morale? Most of 10 airgroups 99 Have you gotten any messages such as "failed to link up" or "loses flight cohesion" or "returning to base"?
No to all of these
What about the skill levels of the leaders? 60s 70s




AdmNelson -> RE: Kates not flying (7/3/2015 2:43:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Have you run out of torps on the CVs?


Haven't had one airstrike all have plenty of torpedos



Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: Kates not flying (7/3/2015 2:52:40 AM)

How good was the target?
the size and composition of the strike force is based on the perceived threat and/ or target quality.

Also, a snapshot of the Kate squadrons can help



AdmNelson -> RE: Kates not flying (7/3/2015 3:27:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

How good was the target?
the size and composition of the strike force is based on the perceived threat and/ or target quality.

Also, a snapshot of the Kate squadrons can help



POW and Some other BBs. Not sure what you mean by snapshot? Strike should have been Kate's at 5000 ft Val's at 10,000 and Zeros at escort at 15,000 ft




Yaab -> RE: Kates not flying (7/3/2015 3:37:37 AM)

Do you a have a percentage of Kates in each unit flying Naval Search?



wdolson -> RE: Kates not flying (7/3/2015 3:47:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

How good was the target?
the size and composition of the strike force is based on the perceived threat and/ or target quality.

Also, a snapshot of the Kate squadrons can help


quote:

ORIGINAL: AdmNelson
POW and Some other BBs. Not sure what you mean by snapshot? Strike should have been Kate's at 5000 ft Val's at 10,000 and Zeros at escort at 15,000 ft




I think he means a screenshot. A picture being worth 1000 words and all that.

Bill



AdmNelson -> RE: Kates not flying (7/3/2015 4:37:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Do you a have a percentage of Kates in each unit flying Naval Search?



[image]local://upfiles/3221/433316964B17420BB26A14F014929BEC.jpg[/image]



AdmNelson -> RE: Kates not flying (7/3/2015 4:43:02 AM)

this last turn I fighters diffenct on some of the shipsas in the picture

[image]local://upfiles/3221/358F5C94BAA943CBBC051A692AB46F3B.jpg[/image]



AdmNelson -> RE: Kates not flying (7/3/2015 4:46:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AdmNelson

this last turn I fighters diffenct on some of the shipsas in the picture

[image]local://upfiles/3221/358F5C94BAA943CBBC051A692AB46F3B.jpg[/image]


Then the Kates with some Vals fly an airstrike by themselves with no fighter escort. No other Kates in TF fly, even though are set to naval strike, Of course they run into enemy fighters and are wiped out

[image]local://upfiles/3221/5783F739372A4C55B92F610FA1577581.jpg[/image]



wdolson -> RE: Kates not flying (7/3/2015 4:52:03 AM)

In the last screen shot the Akagi has no serviceable Kates, but the screen above shows all 26 are serviceable. The ship screen and air unit screen aren't in sync here, if that's from the same time, there may be a bug.

Bill



AdmNelson -> RE: Kates not flying (7/3/2015 5:07:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

In the last screen shot the Akagi has no serviceable Kates, but the screen above shows all 26 are serviceable. The ship screen and air unit screen aren't in sync here, if that's from the same time, there may be a bug.

Bill

First picture the turn before and the second is after the turn



wdolson -> RE: Kates not flying (7/3/2015 5:11:51 AM)

Something damaged every Kate. Figure out why and that's probably the root of your problem. The Ops report and/or Combat Events file (in the save folder) may give some clues what's happening.

Bill



AdmNelson -> RE: Kates not flying (7/3/2015 5:29:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

Something damaged every Kate. Figure out why and that's probably the root of your problem. The Ops report and/or Combat Events file (in the save folder) may give some clues what's happening.

Bill

How far back do I have to go?



Alfred -> RE: Kates not flying (7/3/2015 6:41:52 AM)

wdolson,

It isn't a bug.  As per post #12, the Vals and Kates flew with no fighter escorts at all.  The first picture is the situation before the mission was flown.  The second picture is the situation after the mission was flown.

AdmNelson,

You have very poor altitude and assignment selections.  Plenty of posts on the forum from me and others re the correct parameters which should be employed.

1.  Having fighters assigned to 15k altitude with the Vals set to 10K (as per post #7) and the Kates to 5K means it is impossible to ever have a coordinated strike.  The best you can ever realistically hope to achieve is what I describe as a cooperative strike involving Zeros and Vals and that is problematic as the altitude delta of 5k is quite significant.  It would be very rare to get the Zeros ever flying cooperatively with the Kates and then only if the Vals have not launched at all, thereby making the Zeros unemployed and thus available to perhaps cooperate with the Kates.

2.  You have too many Zeros on escort and LRCAP duties to ever have much realistic chance of getting a coordinated strike (were you to set them to the appropriate altitude), let alone a cooperative strike.  In fact, the LRCAP assignment is a waste of time.

Alfred



Leandros -> RE: Kates not flying (7/3/2015 7:42:21 AM)


Could it be because his Kate adjustment says "Naval Attack" and "Rest".

Fred



koniu -> RE: Kates not flying (7/3/2015 11:15:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leandros


Could it be because his Kate adjustment says "Naval Attack" and "Rest".

Fred

Settings like that mean:
If secondary mission is rest and there there will be naval target in range bombers will attack it. IF no naval target bombers will rest.

I lose many bombers because i forgot to set secondary mission on rest (no mission set or mission like port atack or AF attack was set) and because in both AM and PM phase there was no naval targets unit commander decide to attack at PM phase heavily caped ground target [:(]



Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: Kates not flying (7/3/2015 11:29:16 AM)

And there is a bit of confusion between:
post #1 : Kates didn't fly and post #12: Kates flew unescorted and got wiped out

most early posts try to deal with possible causes of Kates not flying (fatigue, moral, leadership, wrong settings)

while Alfred's post, after #12, explains why the settings used caused an uncoordinated strike. The Kates did fly, but without fighter escort and suffered accordingly



Lowpe -> RE: Kates not flying (7/3/2015 1:52:18 PM)

Other potential reason why planes might not fly is overcrowding on the carrier, and being stood down for maintenance.




ny59giants -> RE: Kates not flying (7/3/2015 2:07:56 PM)

My normal 'rule of thumb' is set all my CV air groups at 12k (F, DB, TB) with the fighters at 30 to 50% CAP and maybe 10% Rest. The DBs often have 10% NavS to help them find their targets. Seems to work well for me.

Like Alfred stated, the delta between your Zeros at 15k to your Kates at 5k is too great.



Justus2 -> RE: Kates not flying (7/3/2015 2:57:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

And there is a bit of confusion between:
post #1 : Kates didn't fly and post #12: Kates flew unescorted and got wiped out

most early posts try to deal with possible causes of Kates not flying (fatigue, moral, leadership, wrong settings)

while Alfred's post, after #12, explains why the settings used caused an uncoordinated strike. The Kates did fly, but without fighter escort and suffered accordingly


From his early posts, it sounds like both were true - The Kates didn't fly the first day, then flew unescorted the following day. Both could be caused by the altitude delta, I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that one of the checks for the squadron to fly a mission is if there is fighter escort available. If the engine didn't find fighter escorts available (because they were set at a different altitude/committed to the DBs) the squadron leader check needs to decide between not flying (which happened day 1) or flying unescorted (which happened day 2).



crsutton -> RE: Kates not flying (7/3/2015 5:53:36 PM)

And lastly how are you carrier TFs set up. Are they all in one TF or multiple Tfs



Lokasenna -> RE: Kates not flying (7/3/2015 6:44:42 PM)

Agree. While I don't think it's impossible for a coordinated strike with altitude settings like that, I'd say it's exceedingly unlikely. Approaching impossible, for sure.

Raise the altitude of the Kates and try again. I get coordinated strikes with Kates/Jills at 9000 and Vals/Zeroes between 10000 and 12000 with no problems. If I want my Vals/Zeroes higher, then I will also raise the altitude of the torpedo bombers. I don't want them to be more than 4000 difference for sure, and try to stay within 2000-3000.



tiemanjw -> RE: Kates not flying (7/3/2015 7:10:19 PM)

I also noticed the zeros have a target set (TF 113). Will escorts fly to another target if one is set?



Rising-Sun -> RE: Kates not flying (7/6/2015 12:44:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

wdolson,

It isn't a bug.  As per post #12, the Vals and Kates flew with no fighter escorts at all.  The first picture is the situation before the mission was flown.  The second picture is the situation after the mission was flown.

AdmNelson,

You have very poor altitude and assignment selections.  Plenty of posts on the forum from me and others re the correct parameters which should be employed.

1.  Having fighters assigned to 15k altitude with the Vals set to 10K (as per post #7) and the Kates to 5K means it is impossible to ever have a coordinated strike.  The best you can ever realistically hope to achieve is what I describe as a cooperative strike involving Zeros and Vals and that is problematic as the altitude delta of 5k is quite significant.  It would be very rare to get the Zeros ever flying cooperatively with the Kates and then only if the Vals have not launched at all, thereby making the Zeros unemployed and thus available to perhaps cooperate with the Kates.

2.  You have too many Zeros on escort and LRCAP duties to ever have much realistic chance of getting a coordinated strike (were you to set them to the appropriate altitude), let alone a cooperative strike.  In fact, the LRCAP assignment is a waste of time.

Alfred


Alfred, I have done this before what AdmNelson did, nothing wrong setting the group up like this and the way he setup the CAPs, not many escorts will get a chance to form up with Kates/Vals in formations. Also depend on the distance, weather as well commander abilities.



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