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David Heath -> (4/15/2001 5:38:00 AM)
Hi First let me say that this will NOT in ANY WAY change our plans for Combat Leader. Combat Leader is real time as well as Plot and Excute game. As to open source game we feel is no. Its hard enough to get the people on the team to agree let alone possibly hundreds. We also feel the support and quality of the game would fall apart as it has in other hobbiest done projects. We are thinking of putting out a special limited edition t-shirt. Everyone would have something to show for there support and we can take the profits from that and put it directly into the game. We will call the game World At War Tactical warfare during WW2 It is impossible to put up a counter for this and we will let you know when we are close. The next Mega Campaign is in development already but the subject matter has not been released yet. We will be doing that in the near future. Let us kick this around and get your comments and see if we can pull this off.

KG Erwin -> (4/15/2001 6:13:00 AM)
Well, I would personally love to order a beer mug with the Matrix logo on it. That would be cool. The idea of a complete reworking of SPWaW is an intriguing idea, but 5.0 isn't even avilable yet. Does that mean that when I send my money for the game, what I'll be getting back in the mail is already obsolete? I'm sure that we'll all be more than satisfied with SPWaW's latest incarnation, but I suppose I have to reconcile myself with the fact that it is still a work in progress.

ccbydm -> (4/15/2001 6:40:00 AM)
I am new to this message board, but not to playing Steel Panthers. I have been enjoying the freebies from Matrix Games for quite some time now. So, I did not regret one bit sending my order in a few minutes ago for the Desert Fox Megacampaign and a T-shirt. A friend did the same a few days ago. I could very easily simply copied his CD, but that certainly would not have done anything to help promote future development of this game. I urge anyone that reads this posting to consider that. You now have two loyal fans of SP WaW that are now paying customers. Now, how about some embroidered hats to go with those T-shirts?

Paul Vebber -> (4/15/2001 7:13:00 AM)
The reworked game will take quite a bit of time - though some of what we are doing for CL can be leveraged to some extent, like OOBs. I lot of new stuff would be needed to - as the whole map graphics concept is different. The combat systems that a WEGO/CT game uses would be quite a bit different as well for IGO-UGO. SO SP:WaW v5 won't be obsolete for a while yet! With fans like Supreme Commander we can hope though ;)

Greg McCarty -> (4/15/2001 7:55:00 AM)
quote: Originally posted by David Heath: Hi Fellow SPWaW Fans The problem is we all love this game so much we want to bring it to the next level. We found this idea on another wargame web site and it started us thinking. Mike Wood, Tom Proudfoot, Paul Vebber Bill Wilder and myself have done some math and came up with the following idea. If we can sell 3,500+ copies of each of the first two mega campaigns we can afford to staff a full time development team for a new written from the groud up SPWAW. We would give it a different name but that would be the basi idea. This would allow us to be able to sell the project and let us keep developing this game for many years to come. Here is what we would plan to do. We would keep the game in hexes, but bring down the scale to 25 yards per hex, expand the size and detail in the OOB, improved the graphics, AI and game engine. We would keep this game as a I Go - You go system, no realtime play. This would be the basic outline with of course we would add our Matrix Games magic. These are the biggest things holding us back now from really going forward with this game development. We will announce when and if we reach this goal. So if you are interested in Matrix expanding the game new the next level please help us fund the project. We also again want to thank everyone for there support for us. IT DOES make the difference. This all sounds wonderful. I'll keep throwing money at ya! A few more T-shirts. Several Mega campaign copies as gifts for friends. I'm on board. Keep us informed about the numbers as things progress.

A_B -> (4/15/2001 9:26:00 AM)
Well, i guess if you can't take donations, i'll just buy a half dozen T-shirts. There is a problem though. I live in California. If i wear a T-shirt that reads "Desert Fox 1941", everyone will think i won the death valley beauty pageant 60 years ago. Oh well, i guess i can just pad around the house in them, or wear one when i visit Idaho this summer.

Ryne -> (4/15/2001 12:16:00 PM)
Buy a second copy of the game, give it as a gift. Expand the hobby.

mrmayor -> (4/15/2001 6:40:00 PM)
David, If you guys put it out there then I will buy it. I really like the idea of 25 yds/hex as it sits with the size of the graphics now in use better. I woyld also like to see mor elevation levels as in SPWW2V4. mrmayor ;) :D ;)

Wild Bill -> (4/15/2001 7:42:00 PM)
I drink coffee by the cup...er, by the pot as I work on scenario design for Matrix games. I also collect coffee cups. It numbers a little over 200 now and I WANT a Matrix Games Coffee cup. I work for Matrix and I will buy the coffee cups :D Wild Bill

Don Doom -> (4/15/2001 7:56:00 PM)
I would buy a coffee cup, heck the way I drink the Black goo my wife calls it[left over from my Navy days]. I probably will buy two. On the t-shirts what would our choices be? :D

johnfmonahan -> (4/15/2001 8:48:00 PM)
How about premium, custom coffe cups/beer mugs. An auction for SP supporter #1 ? With names, pictures etc. What are we bid for a Wild Bill autographed coffe cup( can only be filled after midnight) ?

Mikimoto -> (4/15/2001 11:19:00 PM)
Hello Very sound Ideas about supporting Matrix. I like specially Beer Cup and coffe mugs. But I want to support Matrix, no UPS or the Mail Service of whatever country we order... You MUST (please) find different ways to make it easy (less expensive) to iternational customers to support Matrix. In Spain costs 38$ one Megacampaing. 76 dollars if order two MC's. Uuumh. It's not right. I'm sure we want Matrix forever, No UPS forever. :(

Ryne -> (4/15/2001 11:28:00 PM)
Yes, a Wild Bill autographed copy of the Mega Campaign! And one signed by the whole team! Do I hear $50? $100? $200?

U235 -> (4/16/2001 3:31:00 AM)
Guy (and Gals?), I'll tell you the best way to help support Matrix. Buy one copy (or more as gifts for your wargaming buddies). Invite a friend over for a game of SPWaW. Do this a few more times and presto! New SPWaW diehards. Matrix needs many supports not just a few buying many disks. It call customer support base. Please keep distributing SPWaW 4.5, too. It's still free, and it may pick some potential future players too. Word of mouth advertising is what is need here. Now David...please hurry with the Mega Campaign. I deploy for the Med next week and I'd hate to leave without SPWaW 5.0 and the Mega Campaign on my laptop! :(

Neil Stalker -> (4/16/2001 3:44:00 AM)
Good to hear re plans to keep developing SPWAW. I think you are on the right path - merchandise , tee shirts, caps, coffee mugs (hell Bill between your video collection and coffee mug collection , you must have a large house). An e-magazine by subscription even bi monthly with tips, articles and best of the forums etc. A Friends of Matrix Games - like friends of the opera - a donation of say $100 gives you the next so many mcs,teeshirt etc.

tracer -> (4/16/2001 10:16:00 AM)
quote: Originally posted by Neil Stalker: An e-magazine by subscription even bi monthly with tips, articles and best of the forums etc. Really good idea...100% of money going directly into Matrix coffers; no overhead or UPS 'cut'. I was gonna hold off getting the megacampaign until SPWAWv5 was released, but I saw this thread and placed my order tonight. Also hope WB wasn't just kidding about the coffee mugs :eek:

Larry Holt -> (4/17/2001 12:05:00 AM)
Matrix, you have already had many good ideas here but may I add two more (ideas at least, I don't know how good they may be). 1. OK, so you need to raise funds but coffee cups don't have much margin. Could you have a few live "chat with the developer" forums for a fee? Perhaps once a month/quarter or so? We would love that, you could raise money at little cost to you and you would be providing a valued return for our money, not just ripping someone off or taking donations for nothing specific in return. 2. For international orders where the shipping cost is greater than the mega-campaign, could you offer a download for a fee? The user pays and you give them a code to access your server. Kind of like the model for pay for anti-virus updates? Thanks!

Charles2222 -> (4/17/2001 1:25:00 AM)
Larry Holt: Is 'talk to the developers' really that good an idea when you then run into the risk of making 'elite customers' and the unfortunate circumstances that will cause?

Larry Holt -> (4/17/2001 1:40:00 AM)
quote: Originally posted by Charles_22: Larry Holt: Is 'talk to the developers' really that good an idea when you then run into the risk of making 'elite customers' and the unfortunate circumstances that will cause? I am not sure what circumstances you are refering to. I work in the IT field and often attend web casts and seminars that others don't. I don't find this cause any issues. As it is now, some will have the Mega-campaign and some won't. Will this make elite customers? I do not think so.

Charles2222 -> (4/17/2001 1:58:00 AM)
No Larry, purchasing makes customers, assuming one sells things, but to 'pay' for special rights to talk to developers, developers which have been on this forum, is to also create the question of just how much would the non-payer be listened to. I think such a notion would largely compromise the sort of wargaming brotherhood we have here. I know "maybe" we're all wealthy enough to afford some marginal fee for said privileges, but it is sort of prostituting the developer towards certain people, isn't it? And yet, is Matrix in the business of selling wargames, or in making lovely speeches for fees? I don't know know about you, but when someone wants me to "pay" so I can get in real tight with them, the further away from them I will get. Make Matrix into politicians? Never!!!

Larry Holt -> (4/17/2001 2:18:00 AM)
quote: Originally posted by Charles_22: No Larry, purchasing makes customers, assuming one sells things, but to 'pay' for special rights to talk to developers, developers which have been on this forum, is to also create the question of just how much would the non-payer be listened to.... Of course its up to Matrix to decide what they do but I trust Matrix to listen to all good ideas and discard the bad ones regardless of whether they come from paying or non-paying forum members. I would see them hosting seminars on historical research, AI development, C&C issues, etc. Perhaps including non-Matrix historical and military experts.

A_B -> (4/17/2001 2:19:00 AM)
I think matrix should come up with a better way for those who can support the game to do so. They can't take donations because it will cause book-keeping problems. Purchasing multiple copies of games would work, but matrix has to put money/time into each one out the door. This may be good for matrix in the long run, it'll be easier for them to sell matrix to activision if their game sales are inflated by a few hard core fans purchasing hundreds of games each :) Personaly, i'm gonna buy a couple extra t-shirts, even though i won't be able to wear them.

Charles2222 -> (4/17/2001 3:48:00 AM)
Larry Holt: You seem to trust Matrix to not giving those paying for additional privileges, those additional privileges. So why would they pay for something the other customers already get? So then, once some of the payers figure out the real deal, then they will demand superior privileges they thought they were getting, yes? So, Matirx would then be on the spot, yes? Sounds too much like what the Evil Empire does to me.

Don -> (4/17/2001 3:58:00 AM)
quote: Personaly, i'm gonna buy a couple extra t-shirts, even though i won't be able to wear them. Well just buy XXL and send them to your poor needy buddy Don up near Sacramento! :D :D When I first ordered "stuff", we had a snafu where David cancelled the transaction, but it wasn't really cancelled, then it was "probably" cancelled, and now it's "pretty much for sure" cancelled, so I can finally order a bunch of stuff. :D :eek: :D

Nikademus -> (4/17/2001 4:46:00 AM)
to quote the herbalesence commercials... YES YES YES YES YESSSS :D

A_B -> (4/17/2001 5:50:00 AM)
I�ve made a few posts here about supporting matrix, some tonge-in-cheek, and some serious. But there is a larger issue, which was addressed recently in the �age of SPWaW players� or something similar. That issue is how to increase the popularity of this type of game? Seems like most of us were introduced to strategy games back in the �80s. There aren�t very many young people here. Do strategy games die out with us? Are they becoming too complex? I�ve heard that flight simulator games market share has been plummeting the last several years. They have become such good simulations that the learning curve is too steep. So younger gamers (teenagers) play games like Age of Empires. The effect? Less time, money, resources put towards advancing flight simulators. Same problem with strategy games. Perhaps if I really want to support matrix I�ll commit the time to teach one person how to play and enjoy SPWaW, and insure they do the same. Have there been any discussions along these lines recently?

Grumble -> (4/17/2001 6:19:00 AM)
Interesting about the flight-simulator issue. That was certainly a factor in the decline and fall of many board wargame companies in the 1980s. As gamers demanded ever-more detail, complexity arose and this discouraged new folks from sticking with the hobby. Personally, I think the new players are out there, they just haven't made it from the arcade-type sims to games like SPWAW, TOTP/PITS. As long as the there are people interested in history (and military history seems to be on the upsurge in enrollment-at least in the US), then the "manpower base" exists. I think ,too we also have keep in mind that WW2 armored combat at the battalion-level's not to everyone's taste. IMHO, what's also needed is a strategic-level game of WW2, a computerized Advanced 3R for example, and a Napoleonic game not unlike that which Matrix was developing (until the lawyers got involved).

David Heath -> (4/18/2001 11:56:00 AM)
Hi We think we are going to go with a T-shirt that shows your support for wargaming. Ho w do you guys feel on that.

Charles2222 -> (4/18/2001 5:00:00 PM)
David Heath: Sounds good to me. I've already pre-ordered the Mega cd and shirt. When y'all spoke of 3,500 sales during the first mega cd era, was that 3,500 for just the cds, or for cd and shirts combined? If combined, you've got only 3,498 to go, and undoubtably fewer than that, besides myself.

waynef -> (4/18/2001 5:12:00 PM)
T Shirts are good, but Baseball style hats are better (1 size fits all, no shrinkage). If you have decided on T Shirts, I'll buy! ;)

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