Becoming Bloody-Minded When Wargaming (Full Version)

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KG Erwin -> Becoming Bloody-Minded When Wargaming (7/9/2015 3:03:34 AM)

Whenever I play against the Japanese in SPWaW, there's a sense of bloody-mindedness that takes hold of me which is unique in my wargaming experience. After all of the documentaries I've watched and the books that I've read on the Pacific War, there is something about these battles which makes it necessary. In SPWaW's so-called "national characteristics", the Japanese are fierce fighters, and they do not surrender. Now I know it isn't politically correct to say so, but the only way to defeat them is to kill them.

It's disturbing in a way, but this is how that war was fought, so I have to think in that fashion. Does this ever bother any of you when playing a wargame? Strangely, this is the only game that ever makes me feel uneasy. Why? Because after a few turns, I start to enjoy wiping out enemy units to the last man.

It's been said that the best warriors are basically pacifists. However, there's a job to be done, and you do it the best you can while losing as few of your own soldiers or marines as possible. I suppose I have a healthy attitude towards my hobby.



zakblood -> RE: Becoming Bloody-Minded When Wargaming (7/9/2015 4:46:20 AM)

no, as in the end it's a game, same view with Germans or any other country tbh, and most of the time i play from either side so nations matters as much or as little as the battle your in.



GaryChildress -> RE: Becoming Bloody-Minded When Wargaming (7/9/2015 1:20:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
Does this ever bother any of you when playing a wargame?


Honestly, no. I don't get that emotionally wrapped up in games to the point where I imagine the pixels as real human beings or project hatred or admiration of real people onto the screen. For me it's like checkers (or solitaire since I usually play the AI) or something similar. I don't pretend one side is the good and the other evil that I need to squash. It's just entertainment.



aaatoysandmore -> RE: Becoming Bloody-Minded When Wargaming (7/9/2015 1:56:38 PM)

In total war games when they used to have that squishy sound for the captured prisoners you eliminated I have to admit I pressed that button a lot. [:D]

But, really the psychology of these games is not what we are suppose to be pretending to do. We are suppose to be doing what "we" would have done in the same situation so therefore you make up your own mind and decisions of what you would do. Now if that's what "You" like to do well then do it by all means.

I don't even try to nuke Japan in the games I play that allow nuking. In fact the only game I'll nuke someone is in a lil game called Nuclear War made many many years ago. You almost had to nuke or the AI would destroy you.

I don't have that same sence of destruction in most wargames as I did that one particular total war game Medival I. They took it out in later versions and it's probably because they didn't want someone to become a lunatic because of their game where they heard squishies and enjoyed it. [:'(]



Jeffrey H. -> RE: Becoming Bloody-Minded When Wargaming (7/9/2015 7:03:11 PM)

Games never got to me that way, I have to say though at times I wondered why not.



Zap -> RE: Becoming Bloody-Minded When Wargaming (7/9/2015 8:36:31 PM)

War games, like life. The enemy has to be defeated, fighting goes on until your enemy no longer has a will to fight on. Its the nature of the beast(so to say)Whatever it takes to get to that end.



JEB Davis -> RE: Becoming Bloody-Minded When Wargaming (7/9/2015 10:57:11 PM)

For me the worst part when playing SP:WaW is when my side takes casualties.
I play as if they are real soldiers and try my best to preserve their lives while
achieving the objective... winning.

On the darker side, I really enjoy making OVERRUN attacks and listening to
the sound effect.

Air strike sounds are another of my favorites.



KG Erwin -> RE: Becoming Bloody-Minded When Wargaming (7/9/2015 11:35:47 PM)

I do have to admit that I get a bit creeped out whenever the Japanese launch close assaults. The sound effect is "banzai!" [X(]



wodin -> RE: Becoming Bloody-Minded When Wargaming (7/9/2015 11:55:07 PM)

I can get attached to my pilots in WIngs Over Flanders Field and get peeved when one dies hough only if he has got a few kills and lasted awhile.

I think it's hard to get attached to units in wargames..the only scale really you could is tactical and even then there are usually so many litle soldiers that you can't really keep track of just one and that's only if the game models individuals.

I'd like to see a Coy Commander game maybe set in the trenches of WW1 that has The Sims elements mixed with Soldier management like the football player management games add some buildings feature like prison Architect but this time your building you trench systems and also have a logistics feature. Plan raids etc on the planning map including arty etc and choose the soldiers and officers you want to send out. Plan it well you may come back with some prisoners and no casualties..mess up and pick the wrong officer it could be a disaster. When it comes to the big offensives then a more wargame like aspect comes into play. Now I think this sort of game could have the ability to get you attached o your men. Esp with the Sims aspect..you may have a character who is always getting into trouble when at r&r but and absolute start in raids etc..now if or should I say when he cops it you'll prob get abit peeved. The game would take you right through the War. I imagine if you have one or two originals you'll be praying they make it to the end once you start to get to October 1918..




Sarge -> RE: Becoming Bloody-Minded When Wargaming (7/10/2015 2:11:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Whenever I play against the Japanese in SPWaW, there's a sense of bloody-mindedness that takes hold of me which is unique in my wargaming experience. After all of the documentaries I've watched and the books that I've read on the Pacific War, there is something about these battles which makes it necessary. In SPWaW's so-called "national characteristics", the Japanese are fierce fighters, and they do not surrender. Now I know it isn't politically correct to say so, but the only way to defeat them is to kill them.

It's disturbing in a way, but this is how that war was fought, so I have to think in that fashion. Does this ever bother any of you when playing a wargame? Strangely, this is the only game that ever makes me feel uneasy. Why? Because after a few turns, I start to enjoy wiping out enemy units to the last man.

It's been said that the best warriors are basically pacifists. However, there's a job to be done, and you do it the best you can while losing as few of your own soldiers or marines as possible. I suppose I have a healthy attitude towards my hobby.


classic ....... [sm=00000280.gif]




Sarge -> RE: Becoming Bloody-Minded When Wargaming (7/10/2015 2:28:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zap

War games, like life. The enemy has to be defeated, fighting goes on until your enemy no longer has a will to fight on. Its the nature of the beast(so to say)Whatever it takes to get to that end.


[:-] ....that's not very PC Zap, have a little compassion for those little enemy pixels.



Chickenboy -> RE: Becoming Bloody-Minded When Wargaming (7/10/2015 4:48:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

It's been said that the best warriors are basically pacifists. However, there's a job to be done, and you do it the best you can while losing as few of your own soldiers or marines as possible. I suppose I have a healthy attitude towards my hobby.


I respectfully disagree with the first sentence. The best fighters aren't pacifists. They needn't be bloodthirsty muscle-bound aggressive alpha types, but pacifists are the other extreme. While you may get some good fighters from the bunch, you're liable to wind up with a bunch of pacifists that don't rise to the challenge.

I've heard that it's difficult to ferret out the future battlefield heroes. There were some real surprises from simple homespun country folk (e.g, Sergeant York) that were good with a rifle from an early age, but functionally illiterate, IIRC. Audie Murphy as a youth was a loner, subject to explosive outbursts of fiery temper, but picked up a rifle at an early age to put food on the table for his impoverished family.

In WWII, the American Army preferred good (but not great) students that excelled at team sports and were physically fit as their archetype. The team sports connection makes sense from a combined arms perspective. True pacifists (e.g., Quakers) often had religious exclusions that kept them off the front lines or out of overseas service altogether.

Regarding your first question: Do I feel any blood lust when playing a game or any satisfaction when liquidating an enemy position? Yes. Yes I do.



Hotschi -> RE: Becoming Bloody-Minded When Wargaming (7/10/2015 7:06:50 PM)

Certainly no "bloodlust", and no emotional "connections" to the counters when I am playing. What I sometimes do is tracking the progress of a certain unit and feeling good when it succeeds.

After all, wargames are only just that - games. Any emotional connection to any side or any bloodlust would also prevent me playing the bad guys. So I'm neither a Nazi when playing the Germans, nor a Commie when playing Russia. And neither I am fighting for freedom and democracy when playing any of the other WW2 Allies. I am playing a strategic game with a historical background.

I am neither thinking of actually "killing" someone when destroying a enemy unit - that's what those FPS crap is there for, IMHO, "games" I detest, but that's only my opinion.



KG Erwin -> RE: Becoming Bloody-Minded When Wargaming (7/12/2015 6:43:17 PM)

Okey dokey, I'm having a bit of fun with this topic. I just started a German long campaign in SPWaW, and I constructed a SS Kampfgruppe. Sure, I now that there are SS apologists who wrote histories about their campaigns, but playing as the ultimate bad guys makes me feel different than when I play as the Americans. As the Kommandeur of a SS unit beginning in Sept 1939, I'm completely ruthless. When playing a tactical game like SPWaW, yes, I do engage in a bit of roleplaying. I even change the soundtrack to play different music, as I do when playing as the US Marines.



KISSMEUFOOL! -> RE: Becoming Bloody-Minded When Wargaming (7/12/2015 6:48:17 PM)

Some interesting points made here indeed. However, the true purpose of any game along with the ultimate meaning to it is when I defeat one of you grogs in a titanic grudgematch. It isnt about a battle of Japan vs the Allies or the South vs the North or even Rome vs Carthage. No, its about me destroying your will to resist my superior generalmanship thereby giving ME Divine Right to conquer & destroy your lame, wimpy & puny attempts to stake a claim on a planet that is rightfully mine!! (Actually I hate the politics & history of animosity reflected by WWI & WWII since I love Japan, China, Mongolia, Tibet, Russia, Germany, Poland, France, Brtain, Italy, Spain, Greece, Romania, Hungary, Turkey, Serbia, Croatia, Skandanavia, Bohemia, along with the rest of Europe & Asia in general...except Switzerland, the origin of my family). [:'(]



warspite1 -> RE: Becoming Bloody-Minded When Wargaming (7/12/2015 6:48:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

but playing as the ultimate bad guys makes me feel different than when I play as the Americans.
warspite1

What the Dutch?



KISSMEUFOOL! -> RE: Becoming Bloody-Minded When Wargaming (7/12/2015 6:52:12 PM)

quote:

warspite1

What the Dutch?

I heard that the Dutch are considered the Americans of Europe because, "they talk too much, are inherently loud and claim to have all the right answers". [:D]



KG Erwin -> RE: Becoming Bloody-Minded When Wargaming (7/12/2015 7:11:37 PM)

Well, for me the ultimate goal is to win a decisive victory in every battle of a long campaign. I've spent a lot of time in constructing my ultimate core forces in SPWaW, especially as the Marines. My combat group in 1942 changes drastically over the next few years, as the real life USMC did. By 1945 they become an unstoppable juggernaut. They had to, as the Japanese tactics change from offensive to defensive. Stopping a banzai charge is much different than assaulting a network of caves and fortifications.

Playing as the Germans isn't as interesting, at least for me. Why? Simply because they can't win, and besides, why would you want them to win?



AbwehrX -> RE: Becoming Bloody-Minded When Wargaming (7/12/2015 7:29:11 PM)

quote:

Playing as the Germans isn't as interesting, at least for me. Why? Simply because they can't win, and besides, why would you want them to win?


LOL! Baloney they cant! Why? So as to defeat the evil Entente Empires & their Communist dupe allies of course! Whats so hard to understand about that?! [:'(]



Gilmer -> RE: Becoming Bloody-Minded When Wargaming (7/13/2015 11:06:17 AM)

I get revenge like feelings in Crusader Kings 2.

"Oh, I honored your alliance but you won't honor mine? I'll remember that, pal!"

"Oh, you waited until I was involved in a major war with someone else and decided to rebel or decided to attack me? I'll get you for that, pal!"

And especially when I see that my son is threatened. "If you kill my son, I'll wipe out every single person in your family line, pal!!"



Werewolf13 -> RE: Becoming Bloody-Minded When Wargaming (7/14/2015 1:52:43 AM)

I play games for fun, for excitement and just like when I read a good novel quite often I find myself identifying with the virtual units be they ships, divisions squads or even individuals being kept track of.

When playing WWII games I find that I just can't play the Russians - ever. I play the Germans against them. For west front I've tried to play the Germans in numerous games but always end up playing the Allies - the one exception being the British for some reason I have never fathomed.

When playing RPG's on many occassions I've started out with every intention of playing the bad guy, of being evil but it never lasts. I always end up making the choices the good guy would make. I guess I am just not temperamently suited to being the bad guy in a game.

All of which is a mystery to me. In real life I've had to make more than one tough decision that negatively impacted the lives of those around me or that worked for me or served with me. It wasn't easy or pleasant but it had to be done to accomplish the assigned task.

For me I guess games are a release of sorts. I can play the good guy without remorse knowing that the consequences are never real.

Wierd, huh...



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