RE: OT-Rising Sun

RE: OT-Rising Sun (Full Version)

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Chickenboy -> RE: OT-Rising Sun (7/15/2015 4:35:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: geofflambert quote: ORIGINAL: Numdydar For those that care [:)] http://45thdivisionmuseum.com/Swastika It's odd that the swastika was an ancient India (as in Asia) symbol of good luck and still is. I wonder if that history for the 45th is mistaken. The swastika can be seen on headstones etc. from India and the Nazis took it as an Aryan symbol for that reason. The swastika design is used in Native American pottery works as well. Hopi, IIRC. Not sure which predated which. I doubt there was a great cultural legacy between Hopi and (eastern) Indian cultures. This design may very well represent independent cultural development and legacy.

geofflambert -> RE: OT-Rising Sun (7/15/2015 7:40:19 PM)
You just never know everything. We know the Vikings were here before Columbus, and we know the Chinese very well might have been before that. We know the Roman Empire had communications of various sorts with the Far East. If the North American swastika looked like an Asian one, it's probably no coincidence (IMO).

wdolson -> RE: OT-Rising Sun (7/16/2015 12:22:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Numdydar For those that care [:)] http://45thdivisionmuseum.com/Swastika quote: ORIGINAL: geofflambert It's odd that the swastika was an ancient India (as in Asia) symbol of good luck and still is. I wonder if that history for the 45th is mistaken. The swastika can be seen on headstones etc. from India and the Nazis took it as an Aryan symbol for that reason. It's a case of parallel evolution. I have heard speculation that it may be evidence of visitors to the west coast of North America from Asia. In any case, the same symbol shows up in both places before the Age of Exploration. In any case, symbols only have power when people give them power. You could show up at protest rallies with a flag with an abstract squiggle on it and you would just be the weird guy with the weird flag unless the protestors decided to rally around that symbol, then the abstract squiggle would become the symbol that signifies the movement. As wargamers, we see a rectangular box with an oval in it and another with an X in it and we think: armor unit and infantry unit. They have meaning to anyone who knows much about military matters because they have become fairly common in that world. To someone with little knowledge of that world, they mean nothing. I asked my SO what a rectangle with an oval inside meant and she was stumped. She didn't have a clue. She doesn't know much about military stuff, so she had never encountered the symbol and it had no meaning to her. Bill

rockmedic109 -> RE: OT-Rising Sun (7/17/2015 6:05:37 PM)
I am not a fan of any such bans. Any ban will eventually lead to more items being banned. Soon, things with only a tenuous connection to the offensive actions will be banned. Eventually deniers will begin to show up. And without evidence to the contrary because such evidence is banned, the deniers will be able to gain more converts. And once again, a human culture will not have learned from history and be doomed to repeat it.

warspite1 -> RE: OT-Rising Sun (7/17/2015 7:13:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 quote: ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder This one is for Warspite: If wars were won by feasting, Or victory by song, Or safety found, by sleeping sound How England would be strong! But honour and dominion Are not maintained so, They're only got by sword and shot And this the Dutchmen know! The moneys that should feed us You spend on your delight, How can you then, have sailor-men To aid you in your fight? Our fish and cheese are rotten, Which makes the scurvy grow We cannot serve you if we starve, And this the Dutchmen know! Our ships in every harbour Be neither whole nor sound, And when we seek to mend a leak, No oakum can be found, Or, if it is, the caulkers, And carpenters also, For lack of pay have gone away, And this the Dutchmen know! Mere powder, guns and bullets, we scarce can get at all; Their price was spent in merriment And revel at Whitehall, While we in tattered doublets From ship to ship must row, Beseeching friends for odds and ends And this the Dutchmen know! No King will heed our warnings, No Court will pay our claims Our King and Court for their disport Do sell the very Thames! For, now De Ruyter's topsails Off naked Chatham show, We dare not meet him with our fleet And this the Dutchmen know! warspite1 I am afraid it's meaning is lost on me. I gather this is something to do with the navy's defeat at the hands of the Dutch fleet in the Medway, but I am afraid the words kind of fly over my head. Sorry..... warspite1 Care to enlighten me Cannonfodder?

rustysi -> RE: OT-Rising Sun (7/17/2015 10:51:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Numdydar For those that care [:)] http://45thdivisionmuseum.com/Swastika I've been to OKC many times for work, and just about every trip I find time to visit. I've seen it many times and I'll go again. Its a good little museum.

Reg -> RE: OT-Rising Sun (7/17/2015 11:51:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder This one is for Warspite: If wars were won by feasting, Or victory by song, Or safety found, by sleeping sound How England would be strong! But honour and dominion Are not maintained so, They're only got by sword and shot And this the Dutchmen know! The moneys that should feed us You spend on your delight, How can you then, have sailor-men To aid you in your fight? Our fish and cheese are rotten, Which makes the scurvy grow We cannot serve you if we starve, And this the Dutchmen know! Our ships in every harbour Be neither whole nor sound, And when we seek to mend a leak, No oakum can be found, Or, if it is, the caulkers, And carpenters also, For lack of pay have gone away, And this the Dutchmen know! Mere powder, guns and bullets, we scarce can get at all; Their price was spent in merriment And revel at Whitehall, While we in tattered doublets From ship to ship must row, Beseeching friends for odds and ends And this the Dutchmen know! No King will heed our warnings, No Court will pay our claims Our King and Court for their disport Do sell the very Thames! For, now De Ruyter's topsails Off naked Chatham show, We dare not meet him with our fleet And this the Dutchmen know! Rudyard Kipling

Justus2 -> RE: OT-Rising Sun (7/18/2015 12:31:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rustysi quote: ORIGINAL: Numdydar For those that care [:)] http://45thdivisionmuseum.com/Swastika I've been to OKC many times for work, and just about every trip I find time to visit. I've seen it many times and I'll go again. Its a good little museum. It is a neat museum, visted years ago when my unit was attached to 45th Brigade (the successor unit) for an exercise. Some moving photos and stories of when they liberated one of the concentration camps (I think it was Dachau).

MrKane -> RE: OT-Rising Sun (7/18/2015 1:52:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget Haiti, 1791-1804 Lost. French defeated by rebellion after sacrificing 4,000 Poles to yellow fever. Shows another rule of French warfare: �When in doubt, send an ally.� Well, a lot of Poles died there, however most of them joined Haitians and help them fight off France occupation forces :D Poles always fight for freedom and mostly on loosing side. This was one of very few episode in our military history that we actually won :D Those Poles who did not joined Haitians were captured by British and become RN sailors. Only a few have return to Europe.

Justus2 -> RE: OT-Rising Sun (7/18/2015 2:53:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrKane quote: ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget Haiti, 1791-1804 Lost. French defeated by rebellion after sacrificing 4,000 Poles to yellow fever. Shows another rule of French warfare: �When in doubt, send an ally.� Well, a lot of Poles died there, however most of them joined Haitians and help them fight off France occupation forces :D Poles always fight for freedom and mostly on loosing side. This was one of very few episode in our military history that we actually won :D Those Poles who did not joined Haitians were captured by British and become RN sailors. Only a few have return to Europe. MrKane, Your description of Poles fighting for freedom reminded me of a quote I saw when I was in Poland training with 10th Armored Cav Bde. I spent two months in Swietosow, then deployed to Afghanistan with them. They had a memoral to GEN Maczek on their base, and his quote was: "The Polish soldier fights for the freedom of all nations but dies only for Poland" (Looked it up to get the wording right). Very interesting story learning about him while I was there, and the pride of the Polish Soldiers in their heritage.

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