Non-phasing side naval combat initiation

Non-phasing side naval combat initiation (Full Version)

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nilssone85 -> Non-phasing side naval combat initiation (8/7/2015 7:15:38 AM)
Hi Not sure if it is me who don't understand the form, don't understand the rule or if it is a bug. But we cant get the non-phasing naval combat initiation to work as I expect. Playing head-to-head on two players, global war scenario. Both the British and the Germans have units in the north sea, it is the British impulse. Only the CW gets asked to do an initiation, not the Germans. The CW declines and the turn goes on.

joshuamnave -> RE: Non-phasing side naval combat initiation (8/7/2015 9:36:49 AM)
Not enough information. But to clarify, the non phasing side only gets to initiate if the phasing side moved naval units into the sea zone on that impulse, and if the non phasing side has an organized unit to initiate the search. My guess is that the CW moved the units into the sea zone on a previous impulse, in which case Germany doesn't get to initiate now.

nilssone85 -> RE: Non-phasing side naval combat initiation (8/7/2015 9:42:00 AM)
Yes that is very much the case. Is that RAW FE or a change to the rules? At least that is never how we played it IRL :)

Courtenay -> RE: Non-phasing side naval combat initiation (8/7/2015 12:12:40 PM)
That is RAW 7: quote: 11.6. OPPONENT'S NAVAL COMBAT After your side has resolved combat in all their selected sea areas, any major power on the other side can try to initiate combat (see 11.5.2) in any other sea areas your side moved a non-SUB unit into or within (but not through) in your naval air missions step or your naval movement step. Your opponents can’t pick an area that has already been selected this impulse.

nilssone85 -> RE: Non-phasing side naval combat initiation (8/7/2015 12:37:01 PM)
I'll be damned... Thanks for your help to sort this our for me!

palne -> RE: Non-phasing side naval combat initiation (8/16/2015 8:19:07 PM)
I wish this were an optional rule. Especially for Hotseat / play-by-email. To me, it is counter-intuitive to have a non-phasing player initiate anything. Respond? yes, that I understand (particularly to air events; naval events not so much). Responding to the entry of new units into a sea zone that already has enemy units present doesn't sound any different than responding to the continued presence of enemy units without the entry of new enemy units--which would not allow a non-phasing player to initiate a search. Just my $.02.

paulderynck -> RE: Non-phasing side naval combat initiation (8/16/2015 8:50:56 PM)
That's how the rules work and they work very well.

palne -> RE: Non-phasing side naval combat initiation (8/17/2015 11:18:02 PM)
"That's how the rules work and they work very well." That is an insulting, unproductive, an unnecessary comment to make. It is about as useful as me rebutting, "too bad the computer code doesn't work nearly as well as these well written rules." And to be clear, for me, "that rule does not work, nor does it work well. In fact, its cost benefit analysis is severely deficient when compared to both hotseat playability (an aspect not present in a board game where all players are present nor for the environment in which these well-working rules were written); or delay in timely and orderly resolution of the phasing player's turn. Example, to carve out a 2-hr window to process a turn, only to have it stalled early in the impulse during naval moves to await a non-phasing player's input is a fun reducing effect. Not to mention the number of times one must ping-pong "do you wish to search for this ship/task force..." To paraphrase Justice Marshall's, "Justice delayed is justice denied..." I'll say, "Fun delayed is fun denied."

paulderynck -> RE: Non-phasing side naval combat initiation (8/17/2015 11:43:40 PM)
Calm down, there was no intent to insult anyone. I'm just saying that the way that rule operates is correct and enforced by MWiF, and having played the game for many years the fact that you can only initiate search during your own impulse or when the enemy brings in new assets to a sea zone, and doesn't search himself - works very well game-wise. I'm playing a multi-player Hot Seat MWiF game currently and this is working just fine. We often just skip the intercept when we know our own forces will stop when entering a sea zone - rather than playing at the time consuming gamesmanship of seeing if you can get the opponent to disorganize a ship for searching. Trying to do this kind of thing with emailed moves is a slow process even with standing orders.

rkr1958 -> RE: Non-phasing side naval combat initiation (8/17/2015 11:46:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: palne "That's how the rules work and they work very well." That is an insulting, unproductive, an unnecessary comment to make. It is about as useful as me rebutting, "too bad the computer code doesn't work nearly as well as these well written rules." And to be clear, for me, "that rule does not work, nor does it work well. In fact, its cost benefit analysis is severely deficient when compared to both hotseat playability (an aspect not present in a board game where all players are present nor for the environment in which these well-working rules were written); or delay in timely and orderly resolution of the phasing player's turn. Example, to carve out a 2-hr window to process a turn, only to have it stalled early in the impulse during naval moves to await a non-phasing player's input is a fun reducing effect. Not to mention the number of times one must ping-pong "do you wish to search for this ship/task force..." To paraphrase Justice Marshall's, "Justice delayed is justice denied..." I'll say, "Fun delayed is fun denied." I agree with Paul on this one (i.e., the rule as code / written works very well). Here's just one example, which I think isn't all that unusual, which illustrates why. Example #1: I take a naval action to move an invasion force out into a sea area, use that naval to clear enemy SCS out of the area and put troops holding the island(s) I want to invade out of supply. I then follow up with ground strikes to disorganized them which preps those island(s) for an easy invasion my next impulse. But, if I'm unable to react to my opponents move during his impulse, then he could move a single SCS or even CP out into that sea area, which would put his units back in supply and back to full strength. I would then be forced to take a combine to put them back out of supply with lower strength (i.e., 1 or 3) AND land in my next impulse.

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