Aircraft RTB right after taking off the deck (Full Version)

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Sensei.Tokugawa -> Aircraft RTB right after taking off the deck (8/21/2015 9:14:01 AM)

Alright, I bought the game over a year ago, got excited, then shelved that and have just gotten back just to be hooked ever since.

Anyway, I thought that ASW and submarine operations, tactics and missions are hell, but apparently my weakest point is aerial warfare. Can anybody tell me why my jets begin their mission - be it air patrol or interception - and then they take off only to get back immediately with the notion "RTB ( as per mission )". I inspected the mission box in detail and cannot see anything that would prompt them to do so, but there has to be something as it is happening to me in a second consecutive scenario. First I assigned the mission area to have a flight ready on station in case I need a quick ATS strike, next time I tried to perform an interception of a Soviet ELINT plane which was heading in a general direction of our CVBG which I disliked a bit. The target was described as neutral so I set the mission plan with a target being unknown at least. I thought that would work ... It didn't as planned.

And one more thing - how do I make the aircraft strafe the targets, be it on the ground, apart form assigning a low level flight pattern to enable the crews have a LOS to their targets?? There is something with ( use guns ) in the doctrine, but so far I am failing to observe that apart from dogfights, but that's another story.



wild_Willie2 -> RE: Aircraft RTB right after taking off the deck (8/21/2015 9:50:45 AM)

Hi there,

I still micromanage my missions so can't really help you with the intercepts but you need to toggle the "Use gun against surface targets" setting to yes under general doctrine window in order to strafe targets (remember that this is standard set to NO for a reason as this makes your AC extremely vulnerable to SAM's and ground fire).



Sensei.Tokugawa -> RE: Aircraft RTB right after taking off the deck (8/21/2015 10:30:50 AM)

Thanks a lot, I knew I saw that somewhere and there it was all the time, too obviously placed for me to spot, I must have had a look at it a dozen times yet still I couldn't make the correct association. Well, regarding SAMS - they don't matter in Vietnam on quite a number of occasions unless in down-town Hanoi and over Hanoi Hilton while listening to Hanoi Hannah. Anyway, strafing was a secondary issue, the main one remains. Anyone?



thewood1 -> RE: Aircraft RTB right after taking off the deck (8/21/2015 11:27:05 AM)

Try putting a save up so we can all take a look.



mikmykWS -> RE: Aircraft RTB right after taking off the deck (8/21/2015 1:05:40 PM)

quote:

Anyway, I thought that ASW and submarine operations, tactics and missions are hell, but apparently my weakest point is aerial warfare. Can anybody tell me why my jets begin their mission - be it air patrol or interception - and then they take off only to get back immediately with the notion "RTB ( as per mission )". I inspected the mission box in detail and cannot see anything that would prompt them to do so, but there has to be something as it is happening to me in a second consecutive scenario. First I assigned the mission area to have a flight ready on station in case I need a quick ATS strike, next time I tried to perform an interception of a Soviet ELINT plane which was heading in a general direction of our CVBG which I disliked a bit. The target was described as neutral so I set the mission plan with a target being unknown at least. I thought that would work ... It didn't as planned.


If we could see the save game it would help. I'll give it a shot though.

Intercept mission- Ok the logic on this one is the mission will launch on an unknown. Once that ID is known it will attack, pursue or RTB based on the posture. Winchester and fuel constraint logic does apply. In this case it sounds like the target was identified as neutral so the aircraft RTB'd (you do get a message on this). If you had defined the aircraft as hostile the aircraft would have attacked and RTB'd once it hit weapons Winchester, ran out of fuel or destroyed the targets. If you had defined the aircraft as unfriendly then the aircraft would of attacked like it was attacking in terms of logic but it doesn't attack. This is an ideal behavior for modeling non hostile or harassing interceptions.

There are a couple of things you can do to help define the posture to a target. You can of course manually do it with right click options or hotkey or you can use an exclusion zone which gives you the ability to define posture based on a geographic location you define.

As far as your orbiting group its likely a fuel issue in that they used to much during orbit and then when tasked they didn't have enough to carry out the attack. It could also be the weapons they were carrying were unsuitable.

Hope this helps.

Mike



Sensei.Tokugawa -> RE: Aircraft RTB right after taking off the deck (8/21/2015 1:41:32 PM)

Thank You gents. I'll try first the method above and see if that gets the job done for me and my designs. If the situation reoccurs I'll attach a save here, the Intercept mission hasn't been scrubbed yet.

Alright, I have changed my mind and attached the save file as it was left after I decided I needed counselling so I stopped playing at that point before I can intercept that flight and keep an eye on that.



Sensei.Tokugawa -> RE: Aircraft RTB right after taking off the deck (8/21/2015 1:56:21 PM)

So far it's working plain great.



mikmykWS -> RE: Aircraft RTB right after taking off the deck (8/21/2015 2:02:15 PM)

Good news!

Mike



Sensei.Tokugawa -> RE: Aircraft RTB right after taking off the deck (8/21/2015 2:25:07 PM)

Yes, thank you very much Sir. Actually I could have come to that conclusion myself sooner or later, but kind of simplified the matter by thinking it wouldn't make a difference whether the target is neutral or not if there's a direct command to intercept.

Anyway, the ever famous words from "The Bolt" cartoon": " ... By the way: huge fan. Love it, love you, gotta go, thank you. .."

Now I have just gotten the other missing Goblin contact and I am going to have a close look at that convoy NE of our patrol box.



jmarso -> RE: Aircraft RTB right after taking off the deck (8/21/2015 3:40:29 PM)

One thing to be careful of on interception missions: the fighters go out full burner and quickly run themselves out of go-juice unless you intercede. If you set long interception ranges, when the flight leaves the deck you'd better manually throttle them back to military power or they won't even make it to weapons release range of their targets a lot of the time. Either that or get some tankers out there for them forthwith.



thewood1 -> RE: Aircraft RTB right after taking off the deck (8/21/2015 3:52:34 PM)

Can't you override speed in the mission setting? Does that stop the AB behavior?



Sensei.Tokugawa -> RE: Aircraft RTB right after taking off the deck (8/21/2015 4:52:23 PM)

Exactly - I never bother myself with micromanaging anymore. As a matter of fact this game reminds me to a great degree another favourite of mine - Airborne Assault / Command Ops that is - and it's not only because of the real time aspect. In fact those are only RT games I have ever accepted in full. On having seen the AA for the very first time on my PC years ago I said to myself in utter astonishment; this game plays itself - and I was puzzled and disappointed then. Very much newbie approach.

The greatness of both titles lies in that you are really in command of an organization with working and organic hierarchical CoC - am I really to operate afterburner from the position of the operational CiC? I try to encompass everything what happens in the AoO with as precise mission plans as possible and not interfere with how my assets perform to achieve their goals. I would embrace even more open approach as I too feel still forced to micromanage too much, but that's nothing in terms of the greater picture.



thewood1 -> RE: Aircraft RTB right after taking off the deck (8/21/2015 5:58:41 PM)

I have no idea what you are talking about. When you build the mission, set the speed in the mission builder. That is not micro-managing, that is setting mission parameters in the mission.



Sensei.Tokugawa -> RE: Aircraft RTB right after taking off the deck (8/21/2015 7:56:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

I have no idea what you are talking about.


Then just forget it.

Thanks all.



scottb613 -> RE: Aircraft RTB right after taking off the deck (8/21/2015 9:18:21 PM)

Hi Burroughs,

I get what you're saying - the more the troops can actively behave in both their own and their missions best interest - without me telling them what to do - the better... You're a grown ass man - I shouldn't have to tell you when to use your throttle - LOL... I like using the "Command" aspect and agree - my place in CIC...

One thing I would like to see is a morale system such as used in Total War or Close Combat - so troops can get demoralized and/or might bug out or not compete the mission if losses are great... If 3 out of 4 patrol boats making a run against a CVBG are sunk - number 4 should think really long and hard about running for cover - without me telling him to do it... Granted - I think you could script that scenario...

Anyway - just thoughts on a great game...

Regards,
Scott



mikmykWS -> RE: Aircraft RTB right after taking off the deck (8/21/2015 9:37:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: scottb613

Hi Burroughs,

I get what you're saying - the more the troops can actively behave in both their own and their missions best interest - without me telling them what to do - the better... You're a grown ass man - I shouldn't have to tell you when to use your throttle - LOL... I like using the "Command" aspect and agree - my place in CIC...

One thing I would like to see is a morale system such as used in Total War or Close Combat - so troops can get demoralized and/or might bug out or not compete the mission if losses are great... If 3 out of 4 patrol boats making a run against a CVBG are sunk - number 4 should think really long and hard about running for cover - without me telling him to do it... Granted - I think you could script that scenario...

Anyway - just thoughts on a great game...

Regards,
Scott


The throttle issue is addressed by selecting the unit, pressing F2, selecting manual and then setting it to cruise or whatever after launch. Its hardly a burden.

The mission profile lets you set max and min ranges to allow intercept if you'd like to use it. At some point we might actually wire up speed options too at some point.

Overall intercept speed is not a bug because the case logic includes hundreds of cases and our players have about a million possible opinions on each of them. Its a user thing that we had to arrive at through consensus which was intercept at best possible speed. We know there are still those who will disagree and they aren't wrong. Just ugly[:)]

Now if the aircraft are going into the drink or something like that please do report. That is most definitely a bug.

Mike



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