Shattered unit automatically rebuilt? (Full Version)

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juntoalmar -> Shattered unit automatically rebuilt? (8/27/2015 4:53:47 AM)

Hi,

I've got a doubt regarding Combat Results when a unit gets shattered. According to the manual:

If the result includes an ‘S’ (shatter) or a ‘B’ (breakthrough), put each surviving defending land unit in the production pool if it could have retreated. These units will arrive as reinforcements next turn. Destroy any units that could not have retreated.


Does it mean that:

a) The defender can deploy that unit immediately next turn as it comes as reinforcement
b) The defender can build that unit next turn

I mean, the defender has to use Build Points to put a shattered unit back in the map?

Thanks!



warspite1 -> RE: Shattered unit automatically rebuilt? (8/27/2015 5:07:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: juntoalmar

Hi,

I've got a doubt regarding Combat Results when a unit gets shattered. According to the manual:

If the result includes an ‘S’ (shatter) or a ‘B’ (breakthrough), put each surviving defending land unit in the production pool if it could have retreated. These units will arrive as reinforcements next turn. Destroy any units that could not have retreated.


Does it mean that:

a) The defender can deploy that unit immediately next turn as it comes as reinforcement
b) The defender can build that unit next turn

I mean, the defender has to use Build Points to put a shattered unit back in the map?

Thanks!
warspite1

No build points required. The Shattered unit is simply put back on the map (subject to normal reinforcement rules) without further cost.



juntoalmar -> RE: Shattered unit automatically rebuilt? (8/27/2015 5:29:41 AM)

Then, I guess is something really to avoid when invading Russia for instance, right? If you just get the soviet units as reinforcements again, it may be a never ending battle...

I don't really understand when may I want to shatter enemy units, as it seems not a great result to me.



Ur_Vile_WEdge -> RE: Shattered unit automatically rebuilt? (8/27/2015 5:59:02 AM)

You want to shatter enemy units if taking an area is of high importance. Say you're the axis on the offensive in Egypt. You get an S or a B, any unit that shatters pops up back in England, which while annoying, is a long way away from the front, and if you're trying to make a drive for Suez, just getting them away is often good enough.


Similar aspects when you're attacking in France, given how little depth the French have to defend with. And even in Russia, there are times where you just simply don't have the time or opportunity to mop up a unit that you downgraded to an R result.

Don't forget, that while a retreated unit is face down and in a hex you demand, (within the limitations of the retreat rule) it's still a unit. It can be unflipped by enemy action. It exerts a zone of control. It can defend whatever hex it's sitting on. A shattered unit is gone for a turn, and its absence can often leave other units or areas vulnerable because you've just left a big gaping hole somewhere.


Figuring out when to downgrade to an R and when not to is one of the trickier skills to master.



paulderynck -> RE: Shattered unit automatically rebuilt? (8/27/2015 7:13:55 AM)

Shatter results are usually accompanied by a mandatory loss of one or two other units. So most of the time there are casualties the defender must replace. Also if the defending units have no retreat path, any unit that suffers an 'S' result is eliminated too.

Also the defender must decide which units will die before the attacker decides if the Shatter result will be converted to a retreat result. This often leaves the defender facing a dilemma as to who dies and who may be saved.



Joseignacio -> RE: Shattered unit automatically rebuilt? (8/27/2015 7:21:41 AM)

A "shattered" result may look like too few but you have to realize that it comes after the enemy has taken 1 or 2 losses in combat at least, which is the maximum they can get, it's a bonus. Plus you get the killing if there is no retreat.

You are comparing it to another loss (which the game designers consider it's too much for an only attack), and you could as well compare it to a R result. Which you can always get if you want it instead (to get a bonus for a flipped unit - or flipped unsupplied unit in certain cases- for a hex the next impulse).

However, France is the most clear example of this, as mentioned. But in a summer campaign in USSR you can see how in like 4-6 fair weather's attacks the effect of destroying 20+ units is fostered by maybe 8-10 shattered/blitzed units, rendering the USSR lines to scattered islands.



Courtenay -> RE: Shattered unit automatically rebuilt? (8/27/2015 5:46:58 PM)

A shattered result gets rid of the enemy units for the rest of the turn. What looks like a solid defense can look quite thin after a few shatter results early in the turn. If you convert a result to retreat, you still have to deal with that unit that turn. Only do so if you are sure you will kill the unit later in the turn. Remember, the enemy will have a chance to reorganize the unit if it stays on the map, unless he has no reorganization capability left.



juntoalmar -> RE: Shattered unit automatically rebuilt? (8/28/2015 3:45:31 AM)

Hi Jose Ignacio,

Ooooook, I think I see a big difference now on how I understood the table.

So, a result of */2S means:

a) 2 shattered units?
b) 2 destroyed units + shatter remaining units?

Before I thought a), but rereading the combat result table, I think it's b) now.



Ur_Vile_WEdge -> RE: Shattered unit automatically rebuilt? (8/28/2015 4:34:09 AM)

It is most definitely b). 2 kills, shatter anything (if there is anything) that's left. The one where you get a significant number of shatters is a final result of 20-21 on the blitz table of 2D10, a raw B with no "real" losses.

There's probably a similar result on the 1D10 table, but you get the idea.



Joseignacio -> RE: Shattered unit automatically rebuilt? (8/28/2015 8:13:23 AM)

It's b),the opposite would be kinda weird, having bloody assaults (S results are for assaults, not blitzkrieg table, which is less bloody) where nobody is destroyed. [:D]

UR_ :

20-21? Yes, but only if you are not using certain options in the case of 20 [:'(]

[image]http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/upfiles/16701/7F499A75734C4F5A994EE253E0C9F8DA.jpg[/image]



Joseignacio -> RE: Shattered unit automatically rebuilt? (8/28/2015 8:15:12 AM)

1d10

[image]http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/upfiles/16701/BD79548862E3455988BE7CC409C64620.jpg[/image]



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