EA-18g growler effectiveness and use

EA-18g growler effectiveness and use (Full Version)

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mikeCK -> EA-18g growler effectiveness and use (8/29/2015 1:50:28 AM)
I'm trying my hand at Black Tiger V and there is a lot of SEAD to be done on a pretty modern IADS. I am experimenting with different techniques but I don't know if I am using my EA-18 properly. How close to a target do i have to be for the jamming to work? Also, should I keep the jammers on all the time or just during the attack? In other words, can the enemy "burn through it" so to speak. Finally, is there a particular radar it is better for than others? Obviously it works against SAM radars but what about enemy aircraft and Missiles?

mikmykWS -> RE: EA-18g growler effectiveness and use (8/29/2015 2:32:03 AM)
There is no fixed range. As it depends on the jammer and radars used. Frequency etc. matter. Keep OECM jammers on all that time[:)] They can burn through it but you'll never figure out where that line is. Jammers jam any kind of radar however as mentioned there are many different kinds with different levels of effectiveness. Part of the sim/game is figuring out that puzzle.

mikeCK -> RE: EA-18g growler effectiveness and use (8/29/2015 2:35:19 AM)
Hmmm, well plan A didn't work as only a few of my AARGMs got through and I didn't have the fuel for the follow on wave of SLAM-ER carrying F-18/s because they were dodging a few missiles. Are 2 Ea-18s better than 1? I mean, is the jamming cumulative?

wild_Willie2 -> RE: EA-18g growler effectiveness and use (8/29/2015 4:45:22 AM)
Jamming is one of the mysteries of the game, but I can tell you that more is ALWAYS better and the closer you'll get to your target, the better the results will be (until you get shot down of course). For maximum effect, switch your Growlers to the short range jamming load-out (five jammers) and keep at least two of them close to your strike AC (I generally keep them about five miles in front of the strike package) and you'll see much better SEAD results. With this load-out you'll be able to approach SAM sites to at least within 30 miles without problems. Also fire your AARGM's in large salvo's (I generally go for 3-4 missiles per target in this scenario and attack up to five targets at the same time) as the SAM density in this scenario is extremely high. It may sound paradoxically, but you'll probably get better results if you reconnoiter the SAM sites with a Growler supported F-35 first and then attack the SAM sites an masse (and I mean 30-40+ weapons) with the A model of the JSOW instead (again closely supported by jammers). As the radar cross section of the JSOW is smaller then the AARGM's radar cross section and its a subsonic glide bomb (so much more difficult to detect on infra red systems), its more difficult to detect and engage. Also because it has a cluster warhead, one hit does a lot of damage to the target whereas you need multiple AARGM missile hits to take out a target. If you'll use these tactics, you'll even beat the air defenses in Black tiger V easily.

Gneckes -> RE: EA-18g growler effectiveness and use (8/29/2015 3:33:21 PM)
Also, keep in mind your jammers need to be on the same axis as your other aircraft in relation to the radar that is being jammed, or you'll lose most of the effectiveness.

mikeCK -> RE: EA-18g growler effectiveness and use (8/29/2015 6:22:59 PM)
Great advice, thanks. I actually just rearmed 4 f-35 with internal JDAMS, jammed the crap out of the sites and bombed them. Too many to do everywhere but I cleared a path for a massive tomahawk strike on the airport and Sam sites surrounding

Tomcat84 -> RE: EA-18g growler effectiveness and use (8/30/2015 8:36:50 AM)
Another way to get more insight about how effective your jamming is, is to play it in the editor and at certain points switch to the enemy side and see what they see. You can also do this after completing the scenario by going back to earlier save games if you don't want to feel like you're cheating of course.

HaughtKarl -> RE: EA-18g growler effectiveness and use (8/30/2015 5:21:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gneckes Also, keep in mind your jammers need to be on the same axis as your other aircraft in relation to the radar that is being jammed, or you'll lose most of the effectiveness. That's interesting. So the jamming pods slung under the wings don't provide 360 degree coverage and does that mean the signals from the pod are transmitted forward of the aircraft? In other scenarios I would have my jamming support aircraft orbit outside of the threat areas in a racetrack pattern thinking that would be sufficient but I gather the jamming aircraft need to be facing the threat? I was mimicking what's shown here in this picture. [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/upfiles/45258/E22566ACFC7D4302BC65135ABC6B223F.jpg[/img]

wild_Willie2 -> RE: EA-18g growler effectiveness and use (8/30/2015 5:42:04 PM)
IRL there are different effect areas around the jammer, jamming towards the rear will almost always be less effective then towards the front and side-lobes. In game this distinction is not made (at least as far as I know) so the orientation of the jammer doesn't matter ingame, however the location of the jammer in relative towards the targeted radar and the strike package that is being covered by the jammer does matter. In the diagram you show, the jammers are also more or less inline (on the same axis) with the strike package and their targets in order to obtain maximum jamming effect. In game you can clearly see the effect of aerial jammers on your own radar picture, when an enemy jammer is inline with your radar and its target you'll see the uncertainty area rise dramatically.

mikmykWS -> RE: EA-18g growler effectiveness and use (8/30/2015 6:01:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HaughtKarl quote: ORIGINAL: Gneckes Also, keep in mind your jammers need to be on the same axis as your other aircraft in relation to the radar that is being jammed, or you'll lose most of the effectiveness. That's interesting. So the jamming pods slung under the wings don't provide 360 degree coverage and does that mean the signals from the pod are transmitted forward of the aircraft? In other scenarios I would have my jamming support aircraft orbit outside of the threat areas in a racetrack pattern thinking that would be sufficient but I gather the jamming aircraft need to be facing the threat? I was mimicking what's shown here in this picture. [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/upfiles/45258/E22566ACFC7D4302BC65135ABC6B223F.jpg[/img] Puba's Party[:)]

ExNusquam -> RE: EA-18g growler effectiveness and use (8/31/2015 4:12:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2 IRL there are different effect areas around the jammer, jamming towards the rear will almost always be less effective then towards the front and side-lobes. In game this distinction is not made (at least as far as I know) so the orientation of the jammer doesn't matter ingame, however the location of the jammer in relative towards the targeted radar and the strike package that is being covered by the jammer does matter. In the diagram you show, the jammers are also more or less inline (on the same axis) with the strike package and their targets in order to obtain maximum jamming effect. In game you can clearly see the effect of aerial jammers on your own radar picture, when an enemy jammer is inline with your radar and its target you'll see the uncertainty area rise dramatically. To tack on to your lobe point, at least in the ALQ-99 package, you'll get better jamming IRL off to the side of the pod, where the antennae won't block each other. Not sure if this is modeled in game. [image]http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/an-alq-99-jamitf1.gif[/image]

SeaQueen -> RE: EA-18g growler effectiveness and use (8/31/2015 2:52:41 PM)
Don't neglect decoys. You can use them in several ways. One way would be to shoot off masses of decoys with the idea that you're trying to get the SAM sites to exhaust their missiles on decoys, and then when the real strike comes, they don't have much left to shoot. Another way to use them is to mix them in with the real weapons, and improve the likelihood of your real missiles getting through and hitting their target. quote: Hmmm, well plan A didn't work as only a few of my AARGMs got through and I didn't have the fuel for the follow on wave of SLAM-ER carrying F-18/s because they were dodging a few missiles.

Luidzi -> RE: EA-18g growler effectiveness and use (8/31/2015 4:28:47 PM)
The problem with decoys is that they can't be classified, so the enemy will consider them as unidentified aircrafts. The AI will try to shoot decoys only if it's programmed to attack unidentified targets, or if there's some exclusion zone set and the decoy violates it and gets tagged as hostile. You can't reliably try to saturate enemy SAM with false targets. On the other hand, enemy aircrafts on patrol will pursue decoys - you can exhaust fuel of enemy planes, or lure them away. MALD-J decoys are much better (maybe even borderline exploit), because you can put free, disposable jamming equipment right in the enemy face and, unless programmed to shoot them, the computer will let its EW systems be degraded into impotence.

Tomcat84 -> RE: EA-18g growler effectiveness and use (8/31/2015 5:08:18 PM)
It's really a responsibility of any scenario designer to make sure things can work out. If I'm building a scenario and give the player MALDs I make sure they are useful e.g. make an exclusion zone or set the enemy side to "autosideid" (if that makes sense in the scenario context). MALD-Js can sometimes actually be counter productive if you're trying to pinpoint unlocated SAMs and they don't shoot cause they're getting jammed.

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