F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (Full Version)

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jun5896 -> F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/10/2015 1:21:28 PM)

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/policy-budget/industry/2015/09/09/boeing-to-provide-first-glimpse-of-t-x-at-conference/71979416/

http://www.boeing.com/defense/f-15-strike-eagle/#/advanced-capabilities


Boeing will brief attendees on a new configuration of the F-15, which ups the number of air-to-air weapons on the popular jet to 16.



Dysta -> RE: F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/10/2015 1:24:46 PM)

Standoff fighters, anyone?



jun5896 -> RE: F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/10/2015 1:31:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dysta

Standoff fighters, anyone?



I think USAF wants to procure AAMRAM missile carrier, So I heard B-1 bomber is one of alternative. Nowadays F-15E and F/A-18E/F(for USN) are also candidate aircrafts.



Dysta -> RE: F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/10/2015 1:45:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jun5896

I think USAF wants to procure AAMRAM missile carrier, So I heard B-1 bomber is one of alternative. Nowadays F-15E and F/A-18E/F(for USN) are also candidate aircrafts.

I actually dug their concept to convert air-to-ground bomber into an arsenal bomber, loaded with at least 2 dozens of BVRs to start the rampage, while fighters have easier jobs to tailgate the remaining hostile.

The reason that discarded anti-air B-1 is the massive signature to get detected, and still-cumbersome maneuverability to turn back once a whole salvo is launched. Maybe a fatter eagle can take its job.



jun5896 -> RE: F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/10/2015 1:54:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dysta

quote:

ORIGINAL: jun5896

I think USAF wants to procure AAMRAM missile carrier, So I heard B-1 bomber is one of alternative. Nowadays F-15E and F/A-18E/F(for USN) are also candidate aircrafts.

I actually dug their concept to convert air-to-ground bomber into an arsenal bomber, loaded with at least 2 dozens of BVRs to start the rampage, while fighters have easier jobs to tailgate the remaining hostile.

The reason that discarded anti-air B-1 is the massive signature to get detected, and still-cumbersome maneuverability to turn back once a whole salvo is launched. Maybe a fatter eagle can take its job.



That's interesting concept for future air superiority warfare. When Boeing announces it, I will suggest this information for DB 3000. [:)] Fatter eagle can take this role, Also fatter hornet can this job.



ComDev -> RE: F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/10/2015 2:17:57 PM)

Thanks for the links [8D]

However the missileer concept died in the late 1960s. Lots of reasons it doesn't work on the battlefield, esp on a non-stealth platform.

The USN wanted to give the now-cancelled A-12 Avenger II a secondary missileer role, but only because it was extremely stealthy and could go after enemy high-value units like AWACS. The A-12 and its missileer loadout is of course included in the database.



Dysta -> RE: F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/10/2015 2:23:52 PM)

I hardly think that loaded 16 Fox-ones in a single platform isn't going to do anything besides shoot-n-scoot. However, I really have difficulty to find out their alternative purpose.

Time will tell, but the best we get is Boeing's announcement soon enough.



Tailhook -> RE: F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/11/2015 6:28:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dysta

I hardly think that loaded 16 Fox-ones in a single platform isn't going to do anything besides shoot-n-scoot. However, I really have difficulty to find out their alternative purpose.

Time will tell, but the best we get is Boeing's announcement soon enough.

You mean Fox threes. Fox one is SARH like Sparrow. That would be way less useful than 16 AMRAAMs



Dysta -> RE: F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/14/2015 12:22:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tailhook


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dysta

I hardly think that loaded 16 Fox-ones in a single platform isn't going to do anything besides shoot-n-scoot. However, I really have difficulty to find out their alternative purpose.

Time will tell, but the best we get is Boeing's announcement soon enough.

You mean Fox threes. Fox one is SARH like Sparrow. That would be way less useful than 16 AMRAAMs

Strange, many said Fox One is radar homing missiles, which I usually take AMRAAMS as one of these.



Sardaukar -> RE: F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/14/2015 12:40:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dysta


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tailhook


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dysta

I hardly think that loaded 16 Fox-ones in a single platform isn't going to do anything besides shoot-n-scoot. However, I really have difficulty to find out their alternative purpose.

Time will tell, but the best we get is Boeing's announcement soon enough.

You mean Fox threes. Fox one is SARH like Sparrow. That would be way less useful than 16 AMRAAMs

Strange, many said Fox One is radar homing missiles, which I usually take AMRAAMS as one of these.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_(code_word)

Fox One - Indicates launch of a semi-active radar-guided missile (such as the AIM-7 Sparrow).[1]
Fox Two - Indicates launch of an infrared-guided missile (such as the AIM-9 Sidewinder).[1]
Fox Three - Indicates launch of an active radar-guided missile (such as the AIM-120 AMRAAM and AIM-54 Phoenix).[1]
Fox Four - Historical term indicating air-to-air or air-to-surface cannon fire. The term in current usage is Guns, Guns, Guns.[2]



Dysta -> RE: F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/14/2015 12:54:10 PM)

Ahh, much clearer. Thanks.



che2000 -> RE: F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/14/2015 1:46:10 PM)

Ragnar BTW the A-12 Avenger with the aim-120d load out can fire only 2 missiles at a time. Is it working as designed ? And please can you add this F-15 load out :)



anxiousbob -> RE: F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/14/2015 2:12:31 PM)

Anybody remember this?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/FA-18_Hornet_VX-4_with_10_AMRAAM.jpg



ExNusquam -> RE: F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/14/2015 3:22:11 PM)

quote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_(code_word)

Fox One - Indicates launch of a semi-active radar-guided missile (such as the AIM-7 Sparrow).[1]
Fox Two - Indicates launch of an infrared-guided missile (such as the AIM-9 Sidewinder).[1]
Fox Three - Indicates launch of an active radar-guided missile (such as the AIM-120 AMRAAM and AIM-54 Phoenix).[1]
Fox Four - Historical term indicating air-to-air or air-to-surface cannon fire. The term in current usage is Guns, Guns, Guns.[2]

Not to further muddy the picture, but I have heard old Air Force guys call all radar missiles Fox One and guns Fox 3. The terms above are the standard NATO phrases now.



Rebel Yell -> RE: F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/14/2015 5:10:49 PM)

Yep. In Viet Nam, Fox 1 was radar, Fox 2 was IR, Fox 3 was guns, and Fox 4 was colliding with an enemy aircraft.



harpoon731 -> RE: F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/14/2015 9:39:35 PM)

My only Question for an F-15 carrying 16 missiles... where are the other 8 going? The F-15 only has 8 A/A Missile stations.


Edit: So I looked at the links above again, I see that they are adding the outboard stations. That's gonna require some strengthening of the wings. Also noticed the increase of the inboard pylons to accommodate 4 on each side. Nice rendering, but operationally that's gonna be pretty intense if they make it work.

Nice concept and if it works for them that'll be great.


Former F-15E Crew Chief
90th Fighter Squadron 1994-1997



thewood1 -> RE: F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/14/2015 10:00:50 PM)

The pilot will carry them and throw them out as needed. The ultimate off-bore shoot.



harpoon731 -> RE: F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/14/2015 10:49:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

The pilot will carry them and throw them out as needed. The ultimate off-bore shoot.

I actually LOL'd at this. My co worker is glaring at me now.



renders -> RE: F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/14/2015 11:06:45 PM)

quote:

The new design features 16 air-to-air weapons, doubling the number currently available on the jet. To accommodate the additional weaponry, the new design alters the location of the fuel tanks.



harpoon731 -> RE: F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/14/2015 11:13:50 PM)

I reread that, going to be an interesting concept.



Dysta -> RE: F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/15/2015 12:49:28 AM)

Now I re-read it too. I know F110 is relatively less fuel consuming compare to Russian counterparts, but two of these are still use good amount of it, especially with heavier loadout.

Will the fuel tank redesign involved with an entire fuselage? If so, the Silent Eagle airframe really should have it considered before.



harpoon731 -> RE: F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/15/2015 3:25:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dysta

Now I re-read it too. I know F110 is relatively less fuel consuming compare to Russian counterparts, but two of these are still use good amount of it, especially with heavier loadout.

Will the fuel tank redesign involved with an entire fuselage? If so, the Silent Eagle airframe really should have it considered before.

Aye fuel constraints. It doesn't look like it has fuel specs on the website. With the extended pylons on the inboard side, IIRC they will likely have to redesign the drop tanks as I don't think the 610 Gallon tanks will fit.



Brent119 -> RE: F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/16/2015 5:39:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dysta

I know F110 is relatively less fuel consuming compare to Russian counterparts, but two of these are still use good amount of it, especially with heavier loadout.


A minor point, but just to clarify: no U.S. F-15s are equipped with F110 engines.

All F-15C/Ds are equipped with F100-PW-100 or -220 engines. The F-15Es are a mix with some still flying the F100-PW-220 and others flying the higher thrust F100-PW-229.

The only F-15s flying on the F110 would be South Korea (for their first batch only, they switched back to F100s for their second batch), Singapore, and Saudi Arabia (which re-engined half of their F-15S fleet but none of their C/D models).



jun5896 -> RE: F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/17/2015 11:40:55 AM)

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/boeing-doubles-f-15c-missile-load-in-2040c-eagle-u-416766/




Boeing has unveiled an up-gunned version of its supersonic F-15C air superiority jet designed to keep the aging fleet operationally relevant through 2040.


[image]local://upfiles/50927/CD6ED901982E4AE0B59A401420918220.jpg[/image]



Dysta -> RE: F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/17/2015 12:01:14 PM)

So it's not base on F-15SE.

I do ask though, does Boeing start to disregard its radar signature, and believe that hoard of missiles per jet can intimidate everyone, more than stealth and ECM?



wild_Willie2 -> RE: F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/17/2015 2:00:58 PM)

As it will take several decades before the F-35 is available in the same numbers as Gen 4 fighters, these legacy designs will also have to be kept in service for the duration. But as more and more new 4.5 and 5 gen fighters will become into service with unfriendlier nations, these legacy designs will become more and more obsolete as frontline fighters but will still have to be used in such a role more or less.

One solution to this problem would be to convert a number of legacy AC into close support air superiority AC like this F-15 modification. In this role, these F-15 would stay back from the engagement zone while F-22's and F35's will scout ahead for targets but instead of taking the shot themselves, they will pass targeting data to these F-15 which will then close at supersonic speeds, take the shot from maximum standoff range and retreat again at high speed. Any pursuing fighter would then be easy meat for the loitering gen 5 fighters.

This will let the Gen 5 AC operate without external A-A ordnance and thus stay in maximum stealth and still have access to great loads of A-A ordinance.

Of course this is not an ideal solution to this obsolescence problem, but it will keep these legacy designs viable in the next decades for a relatively modest investment.



Malakie -> RE: F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/18/2015 10:16:28 PM)

If you have served as I did, you might look at this idea differently as I do..

I would be willing to bet this idea is not being considered for dogfighting NOR shoot and scoot situations... There is a bigger picture..

These platforms are being worked on as a specific defense against swarm cruise missile launches....



ComDev -> RE: F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/19/2015 5:44:16 AM)

Hehe the USAF only buys about 20 AMRAAMs a year so would take 10 fiscal years to buy enough missiles to arm half a squadron [8D]



Dysta -> RE: F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/19/2015 7:05:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: emsoy

USAF only buys about 20 AMRAAMs a year

Get some from US Navy then. xD



mikmykWS -> RE: F-15 will payloads 16 AAMRAMs? (9/19/2015 2:58:54 PM)

Was wondering what ever happened to Cuda as nothing's been posted about it an awhile. Looks like a bit in July though

http://elementsofpower.blogspot.com/2015/07/a-mysterious-lm-cuda-missile-update.html

Mike



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